Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[OkaPoka]

Oka ur play reminds me of Baton Pass town!Oka.

Replace RC with Ank.

so whos going to be ank this game

[insomnia]

I'm also advocating an Aaron lynch and I caught him scum day one if it makes you feel any better :shrug:

[insomnia]

Chemist should be vig'd or something imo

[Bitmap]

Can you explain AF scum? You did a huge paragraph for RR but didn't really mention anything for AF.

[OkaPoka]

There's basically three people that I'll wagon at this point, Oka, Sherlock, and one other person who I won't say right now but I'll case when I get free time.

For now though, I have some university projects I need to work on.

who was the third aaronfrost

[insomnia]

Yeah I'm not gonna develop on it sorry. Nor on Chemist, you'll have to fake that I'm a paragon or something and then we'll all blame me post-game for being shit at reading em both if they're both town.

it wouldn't sound anywhere as cool as it did on RR and it doesn't convince anyone. me acting like a cocky son of a bitch might have a lot more pull though and ank also pushing it seems the positive course of action in order for me to achieve my wincon

[Bitmap]

I'm not joining the wagon. I would of joined RR though.

[OkaPoka]

I'm not joining the wagon. I would of joined RR though.

RC would vote here i promise i wrote an algorithm that is RC bot and he would vote here

[OkaPoka]

we

really

should be lynching flavor leaf though but /shrug

[Bitmap]

I'm pretty sure he'd tell you to shut up and sheep him and you'd cower under his leg to avoid a lynch.

[Bitmap]

VOTE: RR

Sheep me. I'm cuter.

[Bitmap]

insomnia sheep me.

[OkaPoka]

An Interview with RadiantCowbells:

Q: So who do you think is scum?

RadiantCowbells

Alright guys I've been reading this game a lot and I really think flavor leaf is scum and I think that a vote on AaronFrost is really good for reasons. If you are a good player of ms.net you would sheep me Bitmap come vote AaronFrost

[Reasonably Rational]

MORNING MEETINGS OVER I CAN NOW TRY TO PLAY WHILE MAKING UP FOR THE FACT THAT ON TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY OF WORK THIS WEEK I SPENT 95% OF MY TIME IN MEETINGS AND ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING.

Okay, so I've done a quick pass of things up to this point for today.

Insomnia, with regards to this:

Holy shit fl. I just woke up and wasn't going to post anything until I had the chance to like read things and make notes and shit instead of just focusing on what jumps out at me( since apparently I haven't played in long enough that far fewer things are jumping out at me), but I just have to say: I really really want you to finish this draft analysis/scum role filling thing, whatever the hell it is you're doing, but you should absolutely do so AFTER the game is over because even if you're both town and 100% accurate, I do not see this as a line that is likely to be judged as convincing to most players, so it's really just filler.

You do you though man.

-Cerb

Why were you more concerned here with how people perceived the strength of FL's analysis rather than the inability it causes onto other players to read FL in any way, especially for yourself? You didn't really express a town read on him before this, and this post is highly suggesting you town read him.

The way scum and town FL react to that question(and play going forward) are different, at least, my expectations are different. Town FL wants the shit he's saying to actually be usable, so making him aware that the shit he's saying isn't going to actually accomplish anything *should* result in him toning it down. Scum FL cares *less* about how usable it is, though they still care, and is therefore more likely to continue wasting time on that.

Titus: Losing a scum slot on D1 is painful enough, imo, that someone with the awareness and planning skills required to put together that deliberate double bus play would see that as more harmful than the gain from "potentially" confusing your VCA. I don't think I've seen any huge indicators that the players in this game are going to be hanging on your VCA when push comes to shove; if that were the case, maybe I could see it as a single VCA 'cleared' scum slot could carry the game, but it just doesn't seem likely.

-Cerb

[insomnia]

Anything important happen in these last 18 pages, because that'll effect how closely I read it.

We have 3+ ascetics. So, at least skim.

Claim whether you're ascetic as well please.

K so going back to this, I trust Pine's claim which, if true, likely means one of the other two ascetic claims is scum.

Uh, he's not claiming ascetic though, and this is worded like you believe he is claiming ascetic - he's claiming ascetic enabler. If you're not paying close attention to his claim, how can you say you believe it?

I know what he claimed. My wording was off, as it usually is, but basically my thought was that if he's a town ascetic enabler, then one of Amrun/RR (the ascetic claims) is likely scum.

I should probably put my vote somewhere huh

VOTE: RR

I'll just give a sneak peek, fine. Let's go through this post for a bit.

In Aaron's mind, he believes Pine's claim. He sees no reason why scum would fake claim.

Now, that would incentivize him to try and figure in between Amrun and RR, as, from his PoV, there's a likely scum.

The timing at which the vote is placed down is really bad, as well as the way he goes around voting it.

As town, you were just proven with mechanical info that there's a likely scum candidate in between Amrun / RR. That would give you some heat you know, some hype energy as you've narrowed two scum (from your PoV) and that would make you want to sort them and find who the town is and who the scum is.

That vote is more like an RVS than actually sorting in a mechanical lock box, it's like "Meh whatever it's anyone" which doesn't really make sense. Town!Aaron would pay close attention to Amrun and RR and make a call much later on after thorough analysis and questioning.

This is not how a town would approach a situation like this, from their PoV. The vote is weaksauce, it's not based around sorting anyone which he had a lot of incentive for, as he's been granted a mechanical PoE between 2 people, which is like anything a town would ask for, like a holy grail.

Hope it makes some sense. Try and put yourself in Town!Aaron's shoes here. His mentality and actual in thread actions aren't consistent. After this vote is placed he doesn't even try and figure if he made the right choice, he's just posting for the sake of posting.

[OkaPoka]

rr if you vote flavor leaf i will personally be happy

[insomnia]

The way scum and town FL react to that question(and play going forward) are different, at least, my expectations are different. Town FL wants the shit he's saying to actually be usable, so making him aware that the shit he's saying isn't going to actually accomplish anything *should* result in him toning it down. Scum FL cares *less* about how usable it is, though they still care, and is therefore more likely to continue wasting time on that.

I see, seems like a reasonable explanation. Looking forward to seeing more from you though.

[Bitmap]

An Interview with RadiantCowbells:

Q: So who do you think is scum?

RadiantCowbells

Alright guys I've been reading this game a lot and I really think flavor leaf is scum and I think that a vote on AaronFrost is really good for reasons. If you are a good player of ms.net you would sheep me Bitmap come vote AaronFrost

Did you forget I then completely ignore him as town and he goes in a fit of rage part?

Cause I didn't.

[insomnia]

yo ali, what hydra game have you promised me?

a hydra game
if you think something looks cool just let me know, I'm like kinda picky tho (I don't think there are any good games atm)

just hit me up with a pm when you find something interesting

[insomnia]

RR, I take it you analysed FL's play after that post was made, then. What's your read on him?

With as much detail as possible if you can, please

[Alisae]

yo ali, what hydra game have you promised me?

a hydra game
if you think something looks cool just let me know, I'm like kinda picky tho (I don't think there are any good games atm)

just hit me up with a pm when you find something interesting

In the moment when I want to hydra, I tend to have a lot of people on my mind who I would like to hydra with because I just like hydraing, so I forget

[Ankamius]

I wiped on a leveling dungeon

I'm bad

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay so let's have a quick Pine discussion with anyone who is present.

I see people proposing that it's more likely scum|Pine claims ascetic enabler/fake claims it, than keeps it to themselves. At least, that's the only way I can see any reason for people to be pushing Pine as scum.

What does scum!Pine get out of claiming that?

1) They learn who every ascetic is, and therefore which individuals exist who cannot be protected(though you should note that someone can be ascetic+bp or something, so that doesn't guarantee kill success)
2) They get town credit for putting a timer on their own life.

What are the downsides?
1) Timer on their life, and/or the risk that the town will reveal there are 17 ascetics and conclude they must die IMMEDIATELY.


I'm probably missing some things, trying to do this quick.

Okay, so let's say there are <x ascetics, where x is the number of ascetics required for lynchthreshold of town slots to conclude he must die today. He gets to live for today, but will LIKELY die eventually, and town(theoretically) knows where they should and should not be pointing their abilities to avoid confusion.

If there are >x ascetics, he just gets lynched.

I see the upside of the situation as being, at best, neutral; town gets knowledge that scum does as well, thereby narrowing the knowledge gap between the informed and uninformed factions, and his team needs additional lynches to win due to his probable death before endgame.

The downside is, to put it plainly, all bad.

That, in short, is why scum!Pine is *highly* unlikely to make that play, even without considering all the *benefits* that come from being scum vs what you know to be enough ascetics to justify an enabler role. Hell, the game is fucking balanced around your slot making a bunch of people ascetic. If everyone stops being ascetic early, it's very likely that the game balance swings significantly towards the town.

Again. just more reason why that claim does not come out of scum!Pine, barring some mechanical fuckery like an ascetic on his team who has abilities that can only be used when they're not ascetic(which is something I don't even know is a possibility, as I don't typically play games following "Normal" guidelines).

-Cerb

pedit: Nope, haven't properly analyzed FL's play since then; I've read the entire game, but not with the necessary depth and/or ISOing I want. My surface level impression of his posting since is that he's largely stopped pushing that particular draft discussion, though he has touched on it in passing. As he didn't hard defend what he was doing as a valuable/viable scumhunting plan, and didn't continue focusing primarily on that, he's currently in both his scum and town ranges with regards to that particular metric.

This is a question to everyone: Does scum!FL bus MariaR/Dunn? Like yes, I know he COULD do it, because he's a cocky ass who is quite sure he could win the game by himself after sacrificing his entire team, but just in terms of "people he wants to play with on his scum team", does he give up that pleasure as a person? I have literally no idea how he feels about those individuals, so someone fill me in on past interactions that you've noticed.

[gobbledygook]

VOTE: RR

I have a headache

[gobbledygook]

Wait

VOTE: Bitmap