Micro 922: Strawberry Mafia (Game over!)

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.10

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With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

Luca Blight

(2): Kanna, Hectic

clidd

(1): Compath

Slaxx

(1): Luca Blight

Ame

(1): Iconeum

Hectic

(1): Slaxx

Iconeum

(1): DrDolittle

Compath

(1): Ame

Not Voting

(1): clidd

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-02-26 02:15:00).

Mod notes:

• Iconeum standing V/LA weekends.

[/area]

[Ame]

for example, the Ico thing! You make your 196 which is your explanation for your Compath read which Ico has wanted for while. Ico comes on later to post 202 but makes no mention/comment of your Compath read, which is what surprises me and that I enquire into. what engagement are you talking about that I missed? Your previous engagements are irrelevant to what i was after

They did respond to it though:

Spoiler:

Things are going to be

hectic

with you around.

VOTE: Hectic

VOTE: compath serious vote

In particular, I read Compath's joke as forced because the hectic pun is obvious and seems like something that has probably been made many times. From this, I thought Compath was either,

A. Awkward scum
B. Someone who has played with hectic and was hinting at who he was

The latter was my interpretation after thinking about it, and if it were the case it was town indicative to me because it would be unnecessarily putting himself out there / providing information to hectic. I scum read DDL for his serious vote because I felt he also picked up on the awkwardness, but instead of thinking it through to the alternative option (B), he stopped at (A), which was scum indicative to me (pushing over sorting).

Things are going to be

hectic

with you around.

VOTE: Hectic

VOTE: compath serious vote

In particular, I read Compath's joke as forced because the hectic pun is obvious and seems like something that has probably been made many times. From this, I thought Compath was either,

A. Awkward scum
B. Someone who has played with hectic and was hinting at who he was

The latter was my interpretation after thinking about it, and if it were the case it was town indicative to me because it would be unnecessarily putting himself out there / providing information to hectic. I scum read DDL for his serious vote because I felt he also picked up on the awkwardness, but instead of thinking it through to the alternative option (B), he stopped at (A), which was scum indicative to me (pushing over sorting).

can we please get some votes on this please

?

Things are going to be

hectic

with you around.

VOTE: Hectic

VOTE: compath serious vote

In particular,

I read Compath's joke as forced

because the hectic pun is obvious and seems like something that has probably been made many times. From this, I thought Compath was either,

A. Awkward scum

B. Someone who has played with hectic and was hinting at who he was

The latter was my interpretation

after thinking about it, and if it were the case it was town indicative to me because it would be unnecessarily putting himself out there / providing information to hectic. I scum read DDL for his serious vote because I felt he also picked up on the awkwardness, but instead of thinking it through to the alternative option (B), he stopped at (A), which was scum indicative to me (pushing over sorting).

'yeah compath joke is forced, this reads like akward scum but i'll interpret it like it's just a hard townread' <-- this is how i read this
Furthermore, you go 'oh DDL is voting this scummy slot that I should be scumreading but am actually hard townreading because lolwhynot, so DDL must be scum'?

what's the logic here?

it's such a bad faked scumread

Let me rephrase that

You read compath like he's awkward scum
But you somehow go to a hard townread on it

and you then proceed to scumread someone who's scumreading and voting someone YOU read like awkward scum?

i don't know how to phrase this properly but i hope ya'll understand lol

You're way overthinking things or just going for LHF. I begin the game thinking from the start, no matter how little there is to go on. That being said, it's still very much just (virtually random) conjecture at that point. My opinion on both Compath changed within the same page (I didn't like Compath's responses and I liked DDL ignoring us). Compath being solid townie was hyperbole / RVS shenanegans.

Compath being solid townie was hyperbole / RVS shenanegans.

well no

you just said it was a serious read?

Though i'm not sure what your scum plan is by doing any of this

It's not a position you wanna be in if ur scum, and you could have easily just gone with the flow once heat turned up

ehhhhhh

My 196 was merely an elaboration of 184 which they already gave their opinion on and indicated they changed their mind on in 195. That you think they would need to respond to 196, specifically, indicates to me that you did not process the interaction between us and are just looking at things on the surface.

next, the slaxx thing! i found his assessment of clidd and then subsequent retraction when he read the Brass and Shrapnel game very civiliany, and I'm not sure how you got the impression I found it lawbreakery?

This does seem to be a misunderstanding. I interpreted your sentence here:

I've read slaxx' interactions this game and his stance on clidd's overconfidence and cliddiness felt very real until he switched on his stance once reading the Brass and Shrapnel Game.

as "Slaxx's Clidd read felt genuine, but the switch did not." Actually, on second thought, I still am reading it that way. That's some weird phrasing otherwise.

the reason for you "pocketing" me is due to the style of the post in which you replied to us. a lot of people at The Force took a liking to this Detective "Detective" Detective character, and you did answer most of our concerns that we could remember.

I don't find this reasoning acceptable. It's not even really about not following up on the post 6 question. It's that your previous posts heavily implied that you felt you caught scum. The sudden reversal doesn't feel genuine and reads as TMI. Posting in the detective style is NAI and can be done from either alignment, as you should know.

[Compath]

Was busy yesterday. Will post more later today.

[Ame]

I took a more thorough look at Hectic's meta case and do find it convincing. Bump Luca up to the #2 suspect. I still prefer to lynch Compath first however since he is an identified threat.

[Ame]

@Luca, can you go into your Compath read? Particularly your reasoning as of 129?
@Hectic, can you provide and explain your Compath read?
@Slaxx, can you go into your Compath read? Particularly what changed your opinion on 8 and 9 as indicated in your 227? And what influenced his placement in your 231 list?
@Ico, can you elaborate on why you were reading Compath as town as of 321? Additionally, why were you worried Compath had a meta read of you if he was town reading you (185)? Additionally, why did you ask who Compath was in 28 but not ask the same of me?
@Kanna, can you go into your Compath read? Particularly your reasoning as of 328.

Additionally, I'd like to know what each of you thinks about the points I made against Compath.

[Luca Blight]

I'll be catching up soon.

[Luca Blight]

The answer to question 7 is 'false' if you are town because imagining that you are scum doesn't change your alignment.

I disagree with this.

The wording

'would it be true

' refers to the hypothetical state, in which it would be true. If you had worded it

'is it true'

then my answer would have been false.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca, what makes you so sure clidd is town if you've seen him do posts like this as scum?

Clidd typed that post before he even knew he was scum, therefore it didn't come from a scum mindset.

[Ame]

While it is correct that 'would it be true' refers to a hypothetical state, that hypothetical state is that state where you are imagining you are scum. In such a state, your actual alignment doesn't change simply because you are imagining it.

For the statement to be 'true' it would need to be rephrased from 'Imagine you are scum this game' to 'If you were scum this game.' The key is the difference in semantic meaning between 'imagine,' which is an action, and 'if,' which is a conditional.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

@Kanna, why a strong 7?

was just feeling a ~7

Also current reads?

Right now it's

<Compath, Ame, Ico>

<Hectic, DDL, Clidd> ---null
<Slaxx>
<Luca>

Slaxx was scummy before Luca's push, but the reasoning for Luca's push felt weird to me. If it's TvS, scum is Luca imo

You ignored my response to your reason for SR’ing me in 217. Why is that?

Is there anything you want to engage me about regarding the Slaxx push?

Also for this, I didn't ignore that reasoning, my reasoning for SRing you was because of your reasoning wrt to the Slaxx push. Don't have any questions for you about that though.

Your initial SR on me was because I reacted differently to RQS than the linked game:

Actually VOTE: Luca Blight I had a look at that game you linked and you were reallllyyy against RQS there, why were you accepting of Ame in this game?

Also you said this but this is *after* you already trusted them (if that makes sense)

The difference though is that in that newbie game the player (Spangled) didn't hold onto the RQS, whereas Ame is.

What is the scum motivation behind insisting everyone answers the questions?

You ignored my explanation for this and instead found another reason to SR me, without making any effort to actually engage me about it.

[Luca Blight]

While it is correct that 'would it be true' refers to a hypothetical state, that hypothetical state is that state where you are imagining you are scum. In such a state, your actual alignment doesn't change simply because you are imagining it.

For the statement to be 'true' it would need to be rephrased from 'Imagine you are scum this game' to 'If you were scum this game.' The key is the difference in semantic meaning between 'imagine,' which is an action, and 'if,' which is a conditional.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

'Imagine you are scum this game, is it true or false that you're scum?'

. False, because the state you're referring to is the present state, in which my alignment hasn't changed,

'Imagine you are scum this game, would it be true or false that you're scum?'

. True. If I imagined I'm scum then in that imagined state I would be scum, although in reality I am still Town.

[Luca Blight]

Slaxx's posts from 386-389 make me feel better about him.

UNVOTE:

However, I'd like to you to shed some light on 301.

[Luca Blight]

I think he's town actually. And I think Clidd is scum. I know your meta defence of him, but the dude is literally not providing any reads unless I missed them. He's spewing large posts that actually have little to no content in them, and they sure don't make a point.

Literally trying to look active without having to commit to anything.

Slaxx is sorting, making reads. I don't scumread him at all, but it's not like I have him as hard town either.

If you give me a gun and make me choose between slaxx and clidd, i shoot clidd.

not feeling great about ico to start.

Like that clid post was not scummy, and these reasonings look more like trying to "look town" and make allies"than sorting

I agree with this.

I'm trying my best to not tunnel Icon after last time, but I do get the feeling he's scum this game, for reasons I will elaborate on later.

[Ame]

We can disagree, but there is only one factually correct interpretation. For your interpretation to have equal validity, you would need to disprove that the word 'imagine' is an action and not a conditional.

[Ame]

It's similar to saying "Run down the street: would it be true or false that you are scum this game." The action has no bearing on your alignment.

[Luca Blight]

Run down the street. Would it be true of false that you are running down the street?

The conditional is implied, in my opinion, no matter how you dress it up.

[Luca Blight]

trainee "trainee" trainee here... again

the tell revolves around Knight Luca's tone and how friendly he is in the early game. i'm in the middle of soemthing but do a meta check for me and see if you see the same thing. regardless, i'll form a case later to show you what i mean

I can kind of get why you might think this, but why did you drop the matter after noticing it early on?

Officer "Officer" Officer making one last round.

Please ask Citizen Ame under what authority she has the right to be interrogating Officers of The Law such as myself. However, if she were to come into the station to ask said questions over a steaming hot cup of hot chocolate; I would be happy to oblige.

Citizen Luca is being exceptionally friendly today, and I admire his cooperation with his fellow citizens. Therefore, please place a friendly "vote" on his person. Thank you.

VOTE: Luca

[Ame]

Run down the street. Would it be true of false that you are running down the street?

The conditional is implied, in my opinion, no matter how you dress it up.

It would be true if you were running down the street and false if you weren't. The command is irrelevant to your actual state.

[Luca Blight]

433 - This seems ok, but the timing of it is fishy to me - I've had a lot of content since early game, so why is Hectic only now casing my early game 'friendliness' when he'd noticed it earlier?

The friendly thing isn't scum-indicative; I'm just trying to have a more laid-back approach in general, and I usually start games slowly regardless of alignment. The exceptions are when a game gets off to a very slow start and I feel compelled to get it moving myself.

[Luca Blight]

Run down the street. Would it be true of false that you are running down the street?

The conditional is implied, in my opinion, no matter how you dress it up.

It would be true if you were running down the street and false if you weren't. The command is irrelevant to your actual state.

That would be the case if it were '

Run down the street. Are you running down the street?'

I believe the 'would be' implies the conditional. Feel free to agree to disagree if you wish.

[Ame]

Of course it's implied. It wouldn't be a riddle otherwise. It doesn't change the fact that it's an objectively incorrect interpretation.

[Luca Blight]

Officer "Officer" Officer cruising through a motorway.

I get the feeling in general that's she's just blending in, asking easy questions and not trying to create waves. I don't feel her questions, particularly the ones to Ame regarding the RQS, have any sorting potential to them.

Ask Knight Luca why he decided to answer Ame's RQS this game. Additionally, why he actually used them to develop a scumread on someone; given we had established he is a not a fan of RQS and in its solving potential.

This seems a bit disingenuous of you as you know my view on RQS has changed since that game.

Also, I did not use them to develop a SR on someone. My suspicion of Kanna was regarding her questions

about

the RQS; nothing to do with the RQS themselves.

[Luca Blight]

Of course it's implied. It wouldn't be a riddle otherwise. It doesn't change the fact that it's an objectively incorrect interpretation.

So you admit it's implied, and yet my interpretation that is was implied is incorrect?

Ok.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca, can you go into your Compath read? Particularly your reasoning as of 129?

It was entirely a tonal read, but I'm now scumreading them due to PoE and some other things I'll get to shortly.

I currently think Icon/Compath are the most likely scum. I've just skimmed the recent pages so will delve in a bit deeper before explaining further.

[Ame]

Your interpretation that it is implied is correct. Your interpretation of what it means is not.

Implied =/= is

You lost this argument quite a few posts ago and I'd be honoured if you conceded.