Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Amrun]

Kumbayah

[popsofctown]

Spare Votecount 3.2

Replica ---------------------------------

(2)

Chara, Amrun

Farkran --------------------------------

Amrun ----------------------------------

Chara -----------------------------------

Nachomamma8 ------------------------

Chemist1422 ---------------------------

Bingle----------------------------------

(2)

Replica, Bingle

Not sparing:

- (3) Farkran, Nachomamma8, Chemist1422

Fight Votecount 3.2

Replica ----------------------------------

Farkran --------------------------------

(1)

Replica

Amrun ----------------------------------

Chara -----------------------------------

Nachomamma8 ------------------------

Chemist1422 ---------------------------

(4)

Bingle, Chara, Amrun, Farkran

Bingle--------------------------------------

Not Fighting:

- (2) Nachomamma8, Chemist1422

3>3>3>3>3>

<3<3<3<3

"Bingle has some really good ideas. And my new father has said that having a training dummy is for our safety, even if I don't know exactly what that means. So if we don't have a replacement, we are in danger. I say that we are taking whatever measures necessary to ensure we have one." Chara said these thing as they walked to a toolbox on the porch and pulled out a saw, a screwdriver, some sandpaper, and a ratchet. They walked back towards Chemist1422 and the group smiling, and one of their eyes glowed more than the other - why was that?
"You might become the best dummy ever. Certainly the one with the largest eye." Chara used the sandpaper to sharpen the saw, being as theatrical as they could manage.
After the saw was "sharp enough", they held the sandpaper up in the sunlight. "Bingle, is it normal 'genetics' for a dummy to have horns?" They thumbed the sandpaper ominously. "Because I want us to have a dummy just as authentic as if someone had gone to the CORE and retrieved us one promptly."
"No." Bingle answered. This prompted Chara to put the sandpaper along with the saw as the instruments with primary relevance.
Chara used their feet to make a round shape of grass within the leaves, close to the shape of Chemist1422's body. "Okay, Chemist1422, step forward - with your last steps, the best ones - and lie down here for your procedure."
Chemist1422's eye widened and widened and widened. Then with a resolute blink, the loox easily decided on the better alternative.
"I'll go get one I'll get one I'll get one!" He ran as fast as he could in the direction of the CORE, running so fast he soon tripped and his spherical body began rolling towards the CORE.
"I may or may not have seen that outcome coming," Chara admitted.

Chemist1442 has been

fought

.

Spoiler: Chemist1422 Role PM

You are a lil

Loox

, aligned with the

town

. You have no special abilities besides your voice and your vote. You are in the formative years of your life when you received the "bullied" complex that will later shape your personality. But for that to bullying to have the right impact, you should play and have fun first, so that there is something to ruin. You won't bully any of your new friends, if you did, how could you ever develop a persecution complex?
To confirm for the game, tell me your alignment and tell me that the mafia have daytalk, by PM.
Here is your image. It can be posted in the game thread if it's by itself:
[/spoiler]

[popsofctown]

Night three begins. Please submit night actions, kills in the mafia PT, friendly neighbor visits by PM. (expired on 2020-02-25 20:00:00)
Modnote: Psyche gains spare PT access.

[popsofctown]

Toriel came out of the house, with a quick pace that suggested that something was still in the oven. Chemist1422 was so tiny in the distance that she wasn't aware of his departure.
"Hectic has come inside, if you all were wondering where he is. Do you know where Psyche is? Psyche would be an excellent supervisor for him."
The younglings realized Toriel must be unaware of what had happened to Psyche. None of them spoke to explain to her what exactly happened - it was too traumatic.
"It's very magical how a spirit comes to inhabit something like a dummy. It happens in a very special process. They join if they match the 'rhythm' of the host. I have a very thick book about it." Toriel was prone to sharing trivia at unexpected times, even though usually the topic was snails.
"I will look for Psyche inside. For now, I can't keep an eye on Hectic so this doll should stay outside. He is bound to chew it up."
Toriel set down the doll, and left to return to the house.
"Quite the creation," Replica commented. They drifted closer and found that the doll had a pull-string. Replica couldn't help but try it.
"~Meow meow MEOW meeeow mow meow me MEOW~"
The little cat doll cried a prerecorded melody. Replica smiled slightly. They did not pull the string again, feeling the one play stood well on its own.
But Replica heard the sound again. Someone among the younglings was humming, humming the same melody. But the hummer was adding new bits and rhythms in between the main notes.
Replica tried to locate the source of the song, but before they could, they realized someone else was humming too, harmonizing. The music became even more ornate, and elaborate.
Replica had a deep love of music.
Replica felt their (lack of) body begin to jive with the beat. They swayed left. They swayed right. They dosidooed and double dipped. The beat was too strong. They twirled and felt too graceful to feel depressed.
The more they danced, the doll began to levitate towards Replica, and it vibrated. Replica paid it no attention, only responding to their rhythmic urges. As the doll drew close to directly touching Replica, the hummers shifted their song into fortissimo.

Like a cloud being sucked into a vacuum, Replica was absorbed into the doll, a more deeply yellow glow in the doll's eyes signifying its change in sentience. What was once empty had a soul!
Unfortunately, the doll had a history, that gave it a fear of large groups like the younglings, and Replica felt their feelings altered by this history.
"HHHSSSSSS!"
Their fearful hiss was involuntary, and their natural shyness paired with the doll's bad experiences caused Replica to flee the group, sprinting towards Waterfall.

Spoiler: Replica Role PM

You are a lil

Napstablook

, aligned with the

town

. You have no special abilities besides your voice and your vote. You have not been dead long enough to get into your future hobby of music creation, but you already enjoy lying on the ground and visiting your thoughts. You're already even shyer than you'll grow to become, later, but you're slowly learning to interact with others. Hopefully you can teach the others how to enjoy daydreaming too.
To confirm for the game, tell me your alignment and tell me that the mafia have daytalk, by PM.
Here is your image. It can be posted in the game thread if it's by itself:
[/spoiler]

[popsofctown]

The living unspared playerlist is
Farkran
Amrun
Chara
Nachomamma8
Bingle
With five alive decisions will require three.

[Amrun]

I want fight Bingle and Farkran. No more compromising. Only death.

[Farkran]

I keep wondering why people are so aggressively opposed to Hectic scum, when there's literally nothing that proves he isn't and a lot of facts that hint he is. Can you seriously go over how Hectic is town when scum did NOTHING to stop his spare?

By the way, from how the day ended and from the the night flip, i am more than convinced that Nacho is scum. He's the solve that fits the most with the current gamestate, entering d3 with a re-evaluation on slots he was hardtownreading for no reason at all

right after he secured the Hectic spare

. Bingle is almost certainly town, from how Almidia played in d1 and how Bingle played in d2. Thinking it through, i might swap Amrun for Chara in my fallback list if Nacho is town, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Chara to go for a Chemist fight AND a town spare when there's a Farkran lynch readily available which would match its progression perfectly, whereas Amrun switched her vote to chemist just because i was hard to remove. If that is the case, it's likely that Amrun just wanted to secure a mislynch - in case a Amrun/Nacho team is a possible world, because Amrun/Hectic would just let the day die, i guess - and anyways this also means Nacho is still a good lynch. But it's likely just hectic/nacho.

Spoiler: nacho & hectic

I feel surprisingly good about Hectic being town, considering it being page 5 and all.

There's a gorgeous feel good concoction brewing over there - a healthy mix of a strong, confident tone and a gimmick that I believe scum would be less comfortable implementing than town. The combination of both gives a loose cannon feel which I feel is significantly less likely coming from scum - as scum, you are forced to contend with your partners whispering in your ear and also silently sort of judging you whenever you are doing something crazy as Hectic is doing now whereas as town the people who lynch you are technically wrong, so it often feels less risky to go off the ranch in significant a way as Hectic has.

Now, some people might point out that Sherlock is also doing a gimmick and no I don't think it has anything to do with his alignment - that's his posting in general (aka seems like someone made a gimmick alt) and thus there's an expectation that he keeps up with it/a higher chance that's something he decided to do when he made the alt as opposed to a gametime decision like Hectic likely made here.

In the bits of scumhunting that he's done there's not obviously a ton but I do like that he pointed out the +town on Chemist's entrance. I don't understand why Billy ends up his spare vote instead of the Chemist (why go for the diluted townjuice when you can go for the pure stuff?), but I'm digging his vibes and so for now he is my spirit animal.

and finally one more thought before i tear myself away.

even if we spare today (i don't think we should), and even if we spare all four days (i !!!REALLY!!! don't think we should), i think it'd be beneficial for the town to try to flush out some baddies first. hectic brought up that there's more town than scum and townies can sometimes be scummy and scum struggle to be townie (which I disagree with but different time different place) - not making an earnest effort to find them makes looking townie a hell of a lot easier. the thing that makes scum scum is the lying and it's much harder for scum to lie and say "that person i know is town is scum" or "you are wrong about my partner that you caught" than it is for them to say "i'm town! the townie everyone thinks is town!".

think about it, friends. don't let this young dragon's words of wisdom fall on deaf ears.

i did also read the setup and my personal goal is to lynch scum D1 and then spare three townies from the towncore fallout and force mafia to kill themselves.

because that would be friggin' sweet.

Golly, this is a bold plan to put forth. My master recently played a game where he had to lynch town, and mafia needed to get themselves lynched to win. They managed to lynch town for first 5 days, and he found townhunting much easier than scumhunting. However, you make a good point that we get no confirmation in this game about those we SPARE being town or mafia. In that game, scum had reason to lynch town to build up towncred, in this they don't.
I now believe the best strategy is to adapt based on how strong your reads are. Is there an obvtown floating around? SPARE them. Is there someone you're confident is scum? FIGHT them.

I now believe the best strategy is to adapt based on how strong your reads are. Is there an obvtown floating around? SPARE them. Is there someone you're confident is scum? FIGHT them.

I agree wholeheartedly, little one.
This is the approach that I would also like to take, with one small accompaniment - it is less punishing to be wrong when picking a fight than it is when sparing a soul, and so I'm more likely to hurt than heal.

hit a button and didn't intend to..... this post is the complete version....

@Nacho, hectic is an established gimmicker - if you didn't know that already - and I don't doubt for a second he would be incapable of doing it as scum given his extensive practice.

This is my first time playing with him (I think?) so I didn't know that and I appreciate you pointing that out.

Calling the practice extensive, though - I think that means that we either have very different definitions of the word or my language when talking about my initial read on him was less precise than I'd hoped it would be. I'm not disputing that Hectic would be able to gimmick post as scum; I simply believe that if Hectic was scum, then he wouldn't be able to pull off the gimmick and have it present quite the same way, and I think a cursory glance of his completed games lends a bit of credence to my point.

A bit of homework for you:

Skim Hectic's posting in this game and compare it to his posting in this game. There are some stark differences (some more obvious than others), but in particular, I want you to focus on the difference in tone. How free and willing to take crazy swings in one game versus the other? Can you see where he seems very focused on his self-image in one versus the other?

If he is scum this game, he's doing an exceptional job in taking risks and putting himself out there (and making it count) - little things like immediately claiming his character or choosing a gimmick that could very easily backfire on him (aka people get pissed off and lynch him) and making them immediately and confidently which might not seem like a big deal now that most people have accepted it, but for someone who has one completed game as far as I can tell, this is a big deal and a stark difference.

The second point, as Chara alluded to, is the scumhunting that he's done. In particular, I liked his push on Sherlock - the "Town players can act scummy a lot of the time. It's harder for a mafia player to act very naturally towny, and that's the people we're SPARING" piece seemed genuine especially keeping the games of his that I've skimmed in mind, and I think that him calling Chemist town and instead sparing Billy Pilgrim is something that mafia would avoid simply because there's no good reason for Hectic as scum to deviate from the straight line of "call town, spare town".

I'm not so sure why having a gimmick would indicate being town...

I have read your post 122, regarding your homework, I don't use or listen to cases that form from meta.

My read on Hectic is not "he has a gimmick and thus is town" and have said as much at least two times.

If you sort of close your eyes and try to avoid using meta, you're giving yourself a blind spot for no reason at all. In games that are competitive, it's important to study an opponent's tendencies. Doesn't mean that it's the entirety of your read or the most important piece of your read, but refusing to address something that will help you get a more accurate read is incredibly silly.

HEAL: Hectic

My strongest townread seems to be a sickness that's spreading throughout the entire town; if I spare today, I can't think of anyone I'd rather save than you <3

I mean, Nacho started paving the path to spare Hectic really early in the game, and Hectic corroborated the thought that the spare route would fit the town best when it actually didn't.

Just look at post #123, 4th from the top in my spoilered quote. Set aside that the analyzed sample is really superficial and poor, you don't produce a meta-based towncase that early into a game. Also, i don't believe that you would change the stance posted in #110 to that posted in #121 and ultimately ending in #235 in so little time, for so little reason. It pinged me when i first read it, but i didn't give it much thought because i just assumed it was because the town was pushing for a spare resolution much more than they were pushing for a fight, but reanalyzing the early posts, Nacho is actually a major culprit for that, not a victim of social pressure.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with me about sparing being bad, can you please re-read Nacho+Hectic combined ISO? His progression on Hectic, compared to how he started and compared to how he introduced himself in the early d3, does. not. make. any. sense.

HURT: Nacho

[Bingle]

@Farkran: If you're the sole sane townie, why are you alive?

@Amrun: If I'm scum, why are all of the people defending me dying?

[Amrun]

@Bingle: Fair point re: Psyche, but Replica was the kill regardless - you and me even discussed it in thread yesterday. I think I may be happier to start with Farkran though.

[Farkran]

@Farkran: If you're the sole sane townie, why are you alive?

@Amrun: If I'm scum, why are all of the people defending me dying?

Because literally nobody is listening to me, and i have been the most voted player since forever? If you were scum, who would you kill?

[Amrun]

@Bingle: in what world would scum kill Fakran? Explain it to me.

[popsofctown]

(expired on 2020-03-03 18:00:00) is the deadline.

[Bingle]

Because literally nobody is listening to me, and i have been the most voted player since forever? If you were scum, who would you kill?

Amrun.

Amrun is the only person who has seriously expressed a desire to lynch me.

If Nacho was scum with Hectic, why does he shoot Psyche over the one person who is standing in his way? It just doesn't make sense. Psyche was townreading them both pretty vocally iirc.

[Nachomamma8]

OK.

HURT: Farkran

I'll be flying out shortly which means that I'll spend my time catching up some time tomorrow - I see that I don't have a whole lot of catching up to do. I still don't think Hectic was scum and I can't see two scum in Amrun/Chara/Bingle so here we are!

[Farkran]

Because literally nobody is listening to me, and i have been the most voted player since forever? If you were scum, who would you kill?

Amrun.

Amrun is the only person who has seriously expressed a desire to lynch me.

If Nacho was scum with Hectic, why does he shoot Psyche over the one person who is standing in his way? It just doesn't make sense. Psyche was townreading them both pretty vocally iirc.

Do you always shoot the person who accuses you most vocally during the day, as scum? Especially when they are literally the least listened to, easiest to remove by lynch slot -

right when you need a town mislynch to avoid a whiteflag town victory

?

Hint: No. You remove a widely consensus townread that was townreading your biggest threat, so you can lynch said threat.

OK.

HURT: Farkran

I'll be flying out shortly which means that I'll spend my time catching up some time tomorrow - I see that I don't have a whole lot of catching up to do. I still don't think Hectic was scum and I can't see two scum in Amrun/Chara/Bingle so here we are!

Ok, sure

[Amrun]

@Bingle: who is scum?

[Chara]

Because literally nobody is listening to me, and i have been the most voted player since forever? If you were scum, who would you kill?

Amrun.

Amrun is the only person who has seriously expressed a desire to lynch me.

If Nacho was scum with Hectic, why does he shoot Psyche over the one person who is standing in his way? It just doesn't make sense. Psyche was townreading them both pretty vocally iirc.

Psyche was defending Farkran vocally as well.

Farkran: i haven't double-ISOed them and i still don't think Hectic is scum, but i will probably look because it feels only fair. what do you think of scum Nacho with town Hectic?

regardless i don't think Farkran is ever nightkilled in a town Farkran world anyway.

Amrun: how are you reading Nacho?
also: what did you get from Chemist's flip?

[Chara]

OK.

HURT: Farkran

I'll be flying out shortly which means that I'll spend my time catching up some time tomorrow - I see that I don't have a whole lot of catching up to do. I still don't think Hectic was scum and I can't see two scum in Amrun/Chara/Bingle so here we are!

i'd be interested in the process of eliminating teams within Amrun/Chara/Bingle. you might have done this yesterday, i don't remember.

[Amrun]

I think chemist flip added scum equity to nacho. It also adds credence to my Bingle/Farkran solve because Bingle went through quite a bit of effort to flip chemist “first.”

My read wavers on nacho quite a bit. If one of my scum picks is wrong, nacho probably fills in the gap.

Chara, same questions back to you.

[Chara]

Amrun and Bingle are still not scum together which leaves at least one for sure in Farkran/Nacho. actually when i think about that Farkran/Bingle makes the most sense.
Farkran iirc has been going for Nacho since yesterday, i don't remember where Nacho's reads were then right this second.

[Farkran]

Farkran: i haven't double-ISOed them and i still don't think Hectic is scum, but i will probably look because it feels only fair. what do you think of scum Nacho with town Hectic?

Scum nacho does not spare town hectic, and you can read 2056 for full insight

Hectic is not town, there is no plausible reason to think he is town with this gamestate. The only slots who didn't endorse his spare were Farkran, Chemist and Bingle. Chemist flipped town (as expected), Farkran will flip town and Bingle too will likely flip town.

pedit: can you... stop for a second and tell me

why

hectic is town in your mind, besides social pressure (which is one of the most wrong premises to ever assume in a game of fm)?

[Amrun]

If it truly ends up being Bingle/Farkran I’m going to flip several tables in real life.

[Amrun]

@Bingle: in what world would scum kill Fakran? Explain it to me.

Still waiting

[Amrun]

@Bingle: who is scum?

[Chara]

I think chemist flip added scum equity to nacho. It also adds credence to my Bingle/Farkran solve because Bingle went through quite a bit of effort to flip chemist “first.”

My read wavers on nacho quite a bit. If one of my scum picks is wrong, nacho probably fills in the gap.

Chara, same questions back to you.

my read on Nacho is still PoE but i think if scum Farkran is right he isn't my first pick for a partner. am i right to think that scum Nacho would have some more oomph? though even saying that i'd rather discard it because his activity has been compromised this game.

Nacho/Farkran doesn't fit because it feels weird for Nacho to spend the majority of his time interacting with his scumpartner last day. and if Farkran's town i'd lynch him before Bingle for sure.

how does Chemist flip add scum equity to Nacho besides removing one possibility for scum? i don't know if his townflip changes anything significant for me besides that.

i need to check what Farkran was at when i voted Chemist yesterday.