Newbie 1987 | Game Over

[Maduisha]

I don't understand the term +ev, but what's wrong with the mason revealing themselves? It's a townie confirmation, if anything. Ahh, unless you guys are actually going to lynch me for wanting to skip the day, then they're worth more hidden until day 3, I guess...

Then I say the mason should stay hidden if you guys are adamant about that.

[clidd]

And of course, with the mason revealed, I will gain +1 day (because I suspect I'm next on the murder list tonight).

[Maduisha]

I mean, if the mason comes out now, and it's me who dies due to the vote, the mafia can murder them at night after knowing their confirmation so that you guys are back to square 1 as to who is innocent the next day. He is better off not saying who he is.

[clidd]

Incorrect. I am probably dying tonight, so i need someone to die in my place. If they didn't kill me, mason lives and leads tomorrow. In both ways we gain something.

[Maduisha]

Incorrect. I am probably dying tonight, so i need someone to die in my place. If they didn't kill me, mason lives and leads tomorrow. In both ways we gain something.

Why would they kill you if they can kill someone that can factually prove they're not red...? The mafia doesn't want the town to have someone they know they can trust.

[clidd]

Incorrect. I am probably dying tonight, so i need someone to die in my place. If they didn't kill me, mason lives and leads tomorrow. In both ways we gain something.

Why would they kill you if they can kill someone that can factually prove they're not red...? The mafia doesn't want the town to have someone they know they can trust.

According to the mechanical peculiarities of the setup, we have no investigative PR among us, just two masons (and one already died). And yes, if the mason reveals himself, it is evident that the chances of him dying are greater. But in this scenario, I will be alive tomorrow and will be able to have a significant impact on the game.

[clidd]

Well, I have already expressed my opinion on Maduisha case. If majority wants to lynch her, that's fine, but I won't get involved for two reasons:

1° She being scum implies early-game suicide strategy.
2° Volatile behavior indicates authenticity of thought, difficult to fake as scum. Newbie!Scum usually plays more timidly, especially the first time. The way she attracted attention is opposite to that premise.

[Maduisha]

What I'm trying to say is that if they don't posses that information, they'll choose a target at random. With enough luck, they won't find the mason. Then, on the next day, if they choose to reveal themselves, there's one person that can be ruled out from lynching for sure. If they come out when there's a clear lynch target for the day, they're becoming nightkill for sure, thus ruining the opportunity to use that information effectively for the town in any way.

[Maduisha]

I don't want to be rude by implying that your posts aren't useful, but with the lack of PR left, the mason that can confirm themselves as town are definitely the most valuable piece for the town on day 3.

[clidd]

You are very innocent, Maduisha. You can't be scum.

[clidd]

What does O.S's death suggest to you ?

[Maduisha]

JV and I were saying during day 1 that he smelled funny, but he turned out to be townie, so in the light that they still murdered him instead of taking the chance of trying to get the town to lynch him later on, he was murdered because he's an experienced player and they'd rather reduce the amount of SE in the town's side as soon as possible.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mae's confidence and them sticking to their logic screams cocky town to me

I don't understand the term +ev, but what's wrong with the mason revealing themselves? It's a townie confirmation, if anything. Ahh, unless you guys are actually going to lynch me for wanting to skip the day, then they're worth more hidden until day 3, I guess...

Then I say the mason should stay hidden if you guys are adamant about that.

Spicy take. Clidd is power wolfing and is wanting a reason to why they're not killed N2

[JacksonVirgo]

Woah no idea why it quoted those posts

[clidd]

'' Kill all threats ''

— Would be what this death indicates. Under no circumstances mafia will choose at random. They will always rely, as a rule, on the reads they obtained during the day, to try to '' hunt down '' potential hidden PRs, or, in this case, get rid of possible threats in the course of the game. The context in which we are, makes it explicit that roles such as doctor, cop and jailor were not assigned to this game, therefore, our alignment does not have any tools to investigate the opposite alignment. In the case of masons, the main advantage is the exchange of information between the two, evidently interrupted by this early death. The purpose of the role has already been uncharacterized, since the remaining mason only has its role as information, which will only serve to discard it from the PoE process at the moment when we are going to select a lynch. With that in mind, it is much more beneficial for the mafia not to necessarily hunt down the remaining mason (as it has no recourse to inflict damage on them), but to eliminate proactive players from the game (like me, for example).

The premise of the mason staying alive until the 3rd or 4th day is detrimental to us, as no one can prove that he is, in fact, a mason. Therefore, the mafia can execute a cc (counter-claim). In the lylo scenario, this is an advantage for the red faction, for obvious reasons.

[clidd]

The fact of Maduisha's failure to associate this shows that:

A.

she is town, B. her partner is coordinating (this would imply a suicidal / inconsistent strategy) or

C.

she is scum and has been acting sporadically on the lynch issue (which mathematically is unlikely to hit the O.S in first night).

[clidd]

And, as I already mentioned, I prefer the mason to reveal itself today, as I will be able to work better in my lynch pool and, consequently, enhance our chances of hitting scum. The scenario in which that didn't happen, and we have another misslynch today, I will die at night and the game is likely to be ruined (lylo with ceejayvinoya will be a headache).

[JacksonVirgo]

And, as I already mentioned, I prefer the mason to reveal itself today, as I will be able to work better in my lynch pool and, consequently, enhance our chances of hitting scum. The scenario in which that didn't happen, and we have another misslynch today, I will die at night and the game is likely to be ruined (lylo with ceejayvinoya will be a headache).

Mason claiming now is not in towns best interest. If they're not going to be lynched today why reveal. Sure revealing before lylo is good but otherwise no

[clidd]

Sacrifice.

[Maduisha]

'' Kill all threats ''

— Would be what this death indicates. Under no circumstances mafia will choose at random. They will always rely, as a rule, on the reads they obtained during the day, to try to '' hunt down '' potential hidden PRs, or, in this case, get rid of possible threats in the course of the game. The context in which we are, makes it explicit that roles such as doctor, cop and jailor were not assigned to this game, therefore, our alignment does not have any tools to investigate the opposite alignment. In the case of masons, the main advantage is the exchange of information between the two, evidently interrupted by this early death. The purpose of the role has already been uncharacterized, since the remaining mason only has its role as information, which will only serve to discard it from the PoE process at the moment when we are going to select a lynch. With that in mind, it is much more beneficial for the mafia not to necessarily hunt down the remaining mason (as it has no recourse to inflict damage on them), but to eliminate proactive players from the game (like me, for example).

The premise of the mason staying alive until the 3rd or 4th day is detrimental to us, as no one can prove that he is, in fact, a mason. Therefore, the mafia can execute a cc (counter-claim). In the lylo scenario, this is an advantage for the red faction, for obvious reasons.

Eliminating proactive players is the main objective of scum, yes, but if an user claims to be the remaining mason, they can be a powerful tool during a day where there is no clear lynching target. And if the mafia claims they're the mason to try to discredit the actual mason, they have high odds of getting themselves lynched as consequence, since they can't know who the town will trust the most. Hence why I insist a mason without its partner is still a valuable piece that should not be revealed as of yet. I understand you consider saving yourself an advantage and all, but please, consider two things:

1. The town doesn't have to follow your suspicions when you try to lead them later. In fact, they might be suspecting you right now for all the insistence about revealing the mason to save yourself.
2. Somebody that can confirm themselves to be green or out a red is almost always the most valuable.

In fact, if I were scum, I'd keep you alive the upcoming night even if the day 2 lynch turned out to be the mason themselves, because you're setting yourself to be suspicious if left alive, at this point.

[clidd]

Hum, It would be advantageous for me to survive, even if I am suspicious. I believe that I can collaborate to solve this game if I reach the 3rd day.

[clidd]

And I still insist that the mason declare himself, if possible. I feel the scenario of lylo approaching with this current discussion.

[clidd]

Mae's confidence and them sticking to their logic screams cocky town to me

I don't understand the term +ev, but what's wrong with the mason revealing themselves? It's a townie confirmation, if anything. Ahh, unless you guys are actually going to lynch me for wanting to skip the day, then they're worth more hidden until day 3, I guess...

Then I say the mason should stay hidden if you guys are adamant about that.

Spicy take. Clidd is power wolfing and is wanting a reason to why they're not killed N2

Jackson, explain this.

[clidd]

Clidd:
You wrote in your wall that it was strange that I wanted to maintain neutrality while still pointing out someone's strange behavior. I mostly agree, but I can attribute that to getting a read on how the meta of the game itself would play out. So I'll start pushing. How can you conclude that the mafia team is not consisted of two newbies? They just need to recognize that OS was the best player in this game, which is something that you acknowledged in your wall. Is it too far of a jump for mafia newbies to recognize that he is a good kill when you literally told them that it was? You point this out again at the start of the day that, why are you adamant in letting people know that OS was lock-town in your eyes? I don’t like this behavior, fos on you

OldMaple, develop this.

[clidd]

It would have been better if you let Kappa claim first

Claim ? shouldn't he defend himself first ?