Newbie 1987 | Game Over

[Karnage]

Vote Count 2.5

72offsuit (3) ~

clidd, JacksonVirgo, ceejayvinoya,

Maduisha (2) ~

GeneralWu, OldMapleNostalgia,

OldMapleNostalgia (1) ~

Maduisha,

GeneralWu (1) ~

72offsuit,

Not voting (0) ~

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-03-04 07:38:13)

V/LA: none

[clidd]

Lynching player generating discussion and letting the lurkers lurk. Definitely not town play. At least 1, possibly both scum on my wagon.
Easy game.

The fact there are 0 counterwagons makes it pretty obvious im town.
Mafia doesnt bus when they have killed a PR.

Did you just think that now? pathetic. I imagined the scenario that you took hours to think in a few minutes, and I still believe that your scum indicator is high enough to justify a lynch. Your buss started on the first day, you just took advantage of the "logic" of having killed a PR to extend the vote and remove suspicions from your tunnel about your partner.

[clidd]

Your accusing mr of not having Dialogue with you? LOL
Keep on digging your grave.

Zzz, I already got you. Think about a better defense.

[clidd]

You had your chance to contribute or at least try to dialogue with us. Needless to say, your reaction during my speculation with Jackson was pathetic, as was your vote earlier in the day.

Now you are just trolling me. Im going to stop wasting time responding to your garbage.

Hum, ok.

"Garbage because I found both scums"

[clidd]

1 - Maduisha is your counter wagon and you are not voting on hee.

2 - There is no other wagon besides these two because your partner is AFK.

3 - You didn't vote me, but said that you don't trust my plan (so you MIGHT think im scum, right ?)

4 - You didn't colaborate or tried to understand the reason why i am doing the PoE (mason died)

5 - Vote on GW started D1, mason died D2 (your bussing didn't consider PR dead)

[clidd]

Mad's recklessness hammer just feels more like scum trying to pretend to be too scummy to be scum.

Why aren't you voting then ?

[clidd]

OS:
It was obvious to me that he was town. I am sure many people didn't like his entry to the game; however, as pointed out by Clidd, it was consistent with his other games. Him being open on playing his alt is also indicative of having nothing to hide. If he was scum, hiding his alt may have subconsciously played into his behavior. I don't see how people thought he was LOCK-scum at all.

Lol... How was he obv town?

He was Null as.

You saying he was obv town is scummy as

I explained using meta why he was lock-town, i doub you didn't understand that.

[clidd]

I just told you the

plan sucks

. Why would I agree with a plan that

i dont see as benefiting town

?

You had your chance to contribute or at least try to dialogue with us. Needless to say, your reaction during my speculation with Jackson was pathetic, as was your vote earlier in the day.

Now you are just trolling me. Im going to stop wasting time responding to your

garbage

.

Comparison with the reaction of a

scum

from a past game when accused by me:

I think looking for town reads over scum reads is viable in this setup.

Why you town reading Norway?

I agree, I'm not really scumreading anyone which now which is why I'm trying to work off of my townreads.

I'm leaning town on Norwee because I think as town he has a tendency to get pushed early when he's town and his play him mimics his town game decently well. I also need to look back and reevaluate Hectic's push on him.

Also I don't think clidd is new to mafia by any means so I think it's disingenuous to read him under the guise of 'he's a newbie'

By newbie I mean newbie to MS's way of playing. Which I think is reiterated by the

hot garbage logic

he has displayed. Like could be proven wrong tho. But I feel pretty happy with the level of effort I have seen.

Okies, I have issues with this bc I think your conclusions

are all wrong

.
1. I think given the mechanics and the need for traitors to not hammer each other that associative and reading in to information gathering allows for plenty of associatives later in to the game. I think fundamentally this game functions similarly to any other, just that some of the logic behind it changes. I don't think any play style is alignment indicative.
2. No daychat is common enough and has not been proven to change play styles a heap. I don't think there is likely any way to reliably signal traitor to traitor, however wolf could be signalling. Pre-day Strats tend to never go to plan in MS style mafia bc there is far too long required to hold up and any tenseness created by trying to illogically stick to a game plan gets scum read quickly. Over a few hours or 1 day, this can be expected to maybe work, but not here.
3. I kinda see your logic here but I don't think that the

logic doesn't apply to town

. We also don't want to hammer bc if we're wrong we lose flat out.
4. I think I covered this in point 2.
5. Given the small player list and that vocal people tend to be both strongly town read and strongly scum read, I think there is very little to be gained from looking at in thread charisma and presence as indicative of anything other than player skill neutrally.

Given that I don't really see your logic all together I think that any conclusions while potentially correct due to the near coin flip of any slot flipping scum, I think it would be purely coincidental.

Espeonage has been lynched. He was a

Werewolf Traitor!

All Wolfies and Traitors have been lynched. The town of Hectic, Norwegianboyww, AaronFrost, and. Clidd have won!

[clidd]

This is why sometimes in the right context being serious is scummy, Straight from the wiki:

It's the so-called LAMIST - (Look At ME Im So Town!) tell and it's still relevant enough to have its own acronym!

Newbscum usually are very concerned with 'looking good' to avoid falling under suspicion, but don't know how to fake-scumhunt

.

Instead, they will do things like pushing the lurkers to contribute, trying to "resuscitate" them by voting them

, asking for reads on themselves, talking a lot about the game itself (this is called IIoA), claiming they are doing anything in their power to get information.

Lynching player generating discussion and letting the lurkers lurk. Definitely not town play

. At least 1, possibly both scum on my wagon.
Easy game.

The fact there are 0 counterwagons makes it pretty obvious im town.
Mafia doesnt bus when they have killed a PR.

Explain this.

[clidd]

Pushing lurkers is a ''Newbscum'' act according to your logic, but letting lurkers lurk is a not a town play ? what ?

[Maduisha]

I still don't think lurkers are inherently scummy, but the fact that there's a lot of incentive to post (two players with a lot of votes in the current game state), doesn't look good for lurkers at the moment if they still choose not to post. Especially GW, since we're awaiting them for a while due to the mason claim that happened earlier...

Timezones are also a thing, so I understand I shouldn't get impatient (again).

[clidd]

Hum, I'm impatient to close this case. But I agree that it would be interesting to wait for GW.

[GeneralWu]

Dang guys you posted like 99999999999 posts while I was gone

I was writing an (evil) essay but now that I'm done I'll hopefully be able to post more (assuming I don't get any more crazy assignments for now)

[GeneralWu]

Where is the contradiction? I didn't hammer PKP for being a lurker, I hammered them because I was bored at the game state, and I said so very clearly by giving a stupid motive for it in my post. I did not care about how did others want to play it out, so I understand being upset at what I did, but why is it scummy? Why would mafia people hammer recklessly on day 1 if they can get townies to fight each other?

I do not like you.
(But I like that you voted for me.)

you saying "I hammered because I was bored at the gamestate" sounds pretty much like a mafia attempting to find some random excuse to quickly hammer a townie and get it over with.
You realize that the longer the day, the more time there is for discussion, and the better the chances are of finding an actual mafia, right? By quickly hammering you are not only hanging a person who could be a townie, but you're also reducing the time for discussion, which is not beneficial for town.

While the first day might be kind of slow, it's still possible for town to discuss and get clues on who's the mafia. The first day isn't for quickly hammering someone because you're supposedly "bored".

[GeneralWu]

Hammering someone who you think might be a potential town, being of green alignment, isn't playing against your own winning conditions ?

EXACTLY

[GeneralWu]

I'm very bored and I actually don't care anymore if he turns up scum or townie, or whatever I might look after this, so I'm actually hammering him.

VOTE: Phi Kappa Phi

Reason: I'm jealous of his Phi profile picture.

Hammering someone who you think might be a potential town, being of green alignment,

isn't playing against your own winning conditions

?

Wait, no, I take that back, I won't ignore this bit of it.

Yes, I knew the chances of hammering town was high, and I still did it anyway. Why? Because night phase gives information out when people die, and that's more fun to play with than the random specualtion of day 1, so I decided to make it more

fun

by ending day 1. I mean, I found PKP suspicious, but that was not the reason why I voted the way I did. Masons are the most boring out of all town related roles, I have to say, so I'm slightly disappointed with what we found out with the night kill, but now people have actual reasons to suspect others

and

there's more tension when voting because there are two townies down.

Isn't it electrifying?

Night phases aren't the only phases that give out information.
Honestly you probably get more information from day phases than night phases.

Also masons aren't that boring. The only other mason game I've played before was a long time ago on a different website, and it was actually pretty fun.
While investigative/protective roles are probably the most powerful ones, it's not like mafia doesn't have more powerful roles to complement that when a setup with a powerful town power role is selected.

This is my opinion but I feel like mountainous setups (or setups that are close to mountainous) are probably the most fun ones to play. I've played like those bizarre setups where 90% of the people are power roles, and it's actually not that fun, to be honest.

Setup Info

Newbie Setup

Newbie Setup

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times.

Spoiler: Full Setups

Column A & Row 1:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 2:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 3:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 1:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 2:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 3:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column C & Row 1:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 2:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Jailkeeper, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 3:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Mods should use the sample role PMs below.

Sample Role PM's (click on the spoiler button to reveal)

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome!

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Cop

Welcome!

You are a

Town Cop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Mason

Welcome!

You are a

Town Mason

.

You know that [player] is Town-aligned. You also share a Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You have no active abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Town Tracker

Welcome!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Doctor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Doctor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Friendly Neighbor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be sent a message informing them that you are Town-aligned.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[GeneralWu]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

[GeneralWu]

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

not me. I'm a

Vanilla Townie

Also I agree that at this point the last mason should probably claim by now, since the mason role doesn't really do anything without the second mason.

btw why do you always post with colors? While it might make the game a bit easier to read, isn't it kind of slow?

[clidd]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

Hum, no.

Scum!clidd

is much more discreet. I'm just considering that she can be town because of past experiences (of players with similar behavior who were

towns

and were misslynched).

[GeneralWu]

So just some quick thoughts from me, while I have the time in between midterms. Sorry, I won't be able to format well because this is off my phone.

Maduisha:
Phi was giving off scum vibes to me, mainly because he ignored people calling him out for his overall strange behavior to the game. With that said, Madu hammered WAY too early on Phi, AND her reasoning as to hammering him is just complete garbage. Being bored with the game does not justify hammering someone that hasn't had a chance to respond at L-1. She took the opportunity to move on to the next day and ran with it. Bad hammers are a thing, but this was an ABSOLUTE SCUM PLAY in my eyes. VOTE: Maduisha

I agree with this.

OS:
It was obvious to me that he was town. I am sure many people didn't like his entry to the game; however, as pointed out by Clidd, it was consistent with his other games. Him being open on playing his alt is also indicative of having nothing to hide. If he was scum, hiding his alt may have subconsciously played into his behavior. I don't see how people thought he was LOCK-scum at all.

Yeah OS was pretty towny.
Although if I remember correctly, he claimed being an alt on his other account that he played a different game with, so the fact that he was an alt was already out there before this game started.

[clidd]

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

not me. I'm a

Vanilla Townie

Also I agree that at this point the last mason should probably claim by now, since the mason role doesn't really do anything without the second mason.

btw why do you always post with colors? While it might make the game a bit easier to read, isn't it kind of slow?

It's my standard when I want to emphasize something.

[GeneralWu]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

Hum, no.

Scum!clidd

is much more discreet. I'm just considering that she can be town because of past experiences (of players with similar behavior who were

towns

and were misslynched).

well have you considered the fact that people who do what maduisha did are more likely to be scum? even though some people who have done that may have been town, it doesn't mean everyone who does that is town.

[clidd]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

Hum, no.

Scum!clidd

is much more discreet. I'm just considering that she can be town because of past experiences (of players with similar behavior who were

towns

and were misslynched).

well have you considered the fact that people who do what maduisha did are more likely to be scum? even though some people who have done that may have been town, it doesn't mean everyone who does that is town.

Experienced players, perhaps.

Newb!Scum

, no. If you have a statistical basis (completed matches) to support your argument, I will take back what I said.

[GeneralWu]

Mason dying is unfortunate but at least confirms the setup

not quite, the setup could either have 2 mafia goons or a mafia goon and a mafia roleblocker.
although the roleblocker's power would do nothing if there is one in the game.

[clidd]

Both

mafia

PRs do nothing in the current scenario. Mason without his partner is a role without mechanical power, so I asked it to claim.