Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Farkran]

@Farkran: This game has been pretty unique IMO - no real shit posting, not a super fast pace, pretty congenial, and really full of content. It’s been a mechanics-free trip down pure solving lane and I’ve enjoyed it.

I largely agree, this game was not easy, it had some surprising moments, the playerlist has been all in all enjoyable although it also had been frustrating at times, for reasons that i would gladly have avoided. Everyone, not excluding myself, could probably have put some more effort in tryharding without clashing, but sometimes it just comes to that. I rarely indulge in memeing or shitposting in general, i am really more of a nasty headbutter, perhaps obsessed with winning. It's either love or hate, i guess. After i lose my first game on ms, i will probably be more relaxed, lol

[Farkran]

I didn’t think he would target Hectic regardless, I just missed that he could if he wanted to. Unless he re-evaluated, he will shoot between me/Chara, which is bad news.

I wonder, though - why are you discounting scum!Chara so hard? I understand that you have been empathizing with it for the longest time, but what content did it produce that is townlock worthy? What are you going to do if both me and Nacho flip town?

[Nachomamma8]

i'm confident psyche will reevaluate before he shoots. believing otherwise seems silly.

[Chara]

Meanwhile, in your pool of three people, two people are mutually townreading each other and have person #3 at the bottom. The solution of "oh they're defending each other because giving town the catharsis of a scum flip here if they don't have to is insanely dumb" seems obvious to me - do you really disagree?

it does seem obvious, i don't disagree there.


feel the same way about Amrun today as i did yesterday. so i do want to lynch in this three, but ideally it's hitting the scum and not hitting the town.

[Chara]

@Amrun and Farkran about the game: agree! about the solving and about enjoying a game free of toxicity so far, i think.

i do think there's a world where scum Nacho is being bussed, but in that world i don't know if Bingle or Farkran get the necessary towncred from it to get to the end, enough that they choose that.

there's something about voting Fark over Bingle or Nacho that i don't like given i think i have more reasons to townread Fark, at least in terms of enduring ones, where Bingle and Nacho are comparatively flimsy. and it's nice in theory to say "if Farkran flips town, then Psyche should shoot in Bingle/Nacho, preferably Bingle", but it's a different matter to actually vote with that in mind.

i hate when logically something seems right but it doesn't feel right, because it means either the logic or the intuition is off. in this case i'm leaning it's the intuition that's off.
Nacho makes good points about Farkran's towngame, and i believe he put in the effort with it.

[Chara]

Nacho: why are Amrun and i your best TRs going into this day?

Gut. Feel more of an emotional connection to you two than to either Bingle or Farkran.

this is really vague and i'd love if you could elaborate. the problem i have with it is mainly that Amrun and i are i believe more emotional players in a very general sense, while Farkran and Bingle are the logical type.

i do like your argument for scum Farkran. also i know gut is gut and you can't always explain it but it'd help me if you gave it a shot.

[Chara]

re: Psyche, the other reason i'd be really happy with a scum lynch today is because it better informs the shot.
i don't think it's worthwhile to worry about what Psyche's reads were earlier. i really doubt he's just checked out.

[Chara]

Night three begins. Please submit night actions, kills in the mafia PT, friendly neighbor visits by PM. (expired on 2020-02-25 20:00:00)
Modnote: Psyche gains spare PT access.

pretty sure there's no confusion about it, but still.

[Chara]

i like Farkran's attitude this day a lot more and i really do understand his frustration coming from a genuine place. i also recognize that it probably isn't AI and that there's bias in there.

Farkran/Nacho doesn't really seem as likely as it did to me last night.

definitely do get the sense of going in circles, though.

[Chara]

the takeaway is it's very probably Bingle/Farkran and i

know

i'm overthinking things on some level and so i don't need to worry about whether i'm doing it.

[Chara]

Farkran: i feel like you talked about this but i can't find it in your ISO, is English not your first language or am i thinking of someone else? sorry for the weird question.

[Amrun]

I didn’t think he would target Hectic regardless, I just missed that he could if he wanted to. Unless he re-evaluated, he will shoot between me/Chara, which is bad news.

I wonder, though - why are you discounting scum!Chara so hard? I understand that you have been empathizing with it for the longest time, but what content did it produce that is townlock worthy? What are you going to do if both me and Nacho flip town?

If you and nacho I’ll have a lot of re-evaluating to do regardless, so I would definitely have to reconsider Chara at that point, but not until then.

Chara and I have simply connected and seen this game from the same lens too many times for Chara to likely be scum. The last time I ignored that for mechanical reasons, I mishammered in LyLo.

[Bingle]

I think that you and Farkran made a mistake by shooting Psyche when you did. I think Farkran misread his confidence level in those Farkran/Bingle townreads but I think with Psyche having hard townreads on 4/5 of the living means that he's going to reanalyze and I don't think that process is going to end up looking too good for you.

So you're going to assume that Psyche is going to shoot me on the basis that you think you can guess how psyche would reevaluate using information that neither of us have in addition to the information readily available in the thread when people are saying at large that I've been acting more town recently than before?

[Bingle]

because Farkran gets much harder to lynch if I flip town.

I don't think this is true at all but I'd love to see you try to explain it.

There's not a viable partner for him other than you

partially because interactions and partially because I'm not willing to flip on those Amrun/Chara townreads and don't really see any reason to do so now - feeling an odd sense of clarity when staring death in the face (which is also why I would much rather see Farkran/Nacho today as opposed to you - dead town Nacho's word seems to be much more trustworthy than one who is living near endgame).

:thorface:

[Bingle]

EBWOP

because Farkran gets much harder to lynch if I flip town.

I don't think this is true at all but I'd love to see you try to explain it.

There's not a viable partner for him other than you

partially because interactions and partially because I'm not willing to flip on those Amrun/Chara townreads and don't really see any reason to do so now - feeling an odd sense of clarity when staring death in the face (which is also why I would much rather see Farkran/Nacho today as opposed to you - dead town Nacho's word seems to be much more trustworthy than one who is living near endgame).

:thorface:

[Bingle]

We need to consolidate on me or Nacho here because we're down to about 50 hours. Nacho just said that he doesn't think Farkran gets harder to lynch in the wake of me flipping town, and also that there is no viable partner for Farkran other than me. Those are mutually exclusive stances. If you think Bingle/Fark is the team, Bingle lynch in that team is just as game furthering as a Farkran lynch. By Nacho's own logic of the only Farkran team that makes sense is a Fark/Bingle team, I should be the first lynch, but he wants to lynch Farkran first because :shrug:

If I were to flip scum, you would as a team have 3 flips in {Hectic/Farkran/Nacho/Chara/Amrun} and Farkran is one of those 3 100% of the time. The catharsis of a scum lynch would be exactly the same. Nacho's readstrength would be irrelevant in the lynching of Farkran because you all want to do that eventually anyway. And Nacho is good enough that he knows all of this.

Conversely, you kill me first and I flip town: Farkran is suddenly off the table (or at least not resting with his head in the guillotine) which means that it's WAY harder to get a mislynch on him. Now there's 3 flips to hit two scum in that same pool of 5. Still the same amount of town control, but Farkran isn't an obvious mislynch.

And here's the rub: You can trust me when I say that lynching me over Farkran is just better play to be telling the truth, because either you're directly advancing town's wincondition anyway by offering a scum lynch or I'm town and I genuinely believe it. I could be wrong, sure, but you'd KNOW that my arguments are genuine.

HURT: Nacho

L-1

[Nachomamma8]

this is really vague and i'd love if you could elaborate. the problem i have with it is mainly that Amrun and i are i believe more emotional players in a very general sense, while Farkran and Bingle are the logical type.

i do like your argument for scum Farkran. also i know gut is gut and you can't always explain it but it'd help me if you gave it a shot.

This is the end, this is the end
You wait to find that I am still here
And you've been waiting for the light to shine
Wake up, wake up, wake up
I'll be the answer to the question I can't answer
It's a question you can't spit it out
Can we find
We find, we find a way out
A way out

[Nachomamma8]

the problem i have with it is mainly that Amrun and i are i believe more emotional players in a very general sense, while Farkran and Bingle are the logical type.

I don't believe this generalization is worth much at all. The reason why I feel an emotional connection with the two of you is deeper than "these are emotional players versus the logical players in the corner", this is not my first rodeo. You feel similarly wrt Amrun, she feels the same wrt you - me weaving lies to put words to the emotion that we both feel isn't particularly useful at this point.

[Nachomamma8]

So you're going to assume that Psyche is going to shoot me on the basis that you think you can guess how psyche would reevaluate using information that neither of us have in addition to the information readily available in the thread when people are saying at large that I've been acting more town recently than before?

Two thumbs up.

I might have said that you've been more townie recently, and if I did, I apologize because I've been a big fat liar. You've been more reasonable lately - you've provided sound logic which doesn't rule you out as scum in the least bit. I can't see Psyche shooting anyone that isn't you.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho just said that he doesn't think Farkran gets harder to lynch in the wake of me flipping town, and also that there is no viable partner for Farkran other than me. Those are mutually exclusive stances. If you think Bingle/Fark is the team, Bingle lynch in that team is just as game furthering as a Farkran lynch.

I missed you
Let's spend the future talking about the past
How you said goodbye
How I fucked your mind up

[Nachomamma8]

Are they mutually exclusive stances? I don't believe that your town flip makes Farkran easier to lynch because if you flip town then something is super duper hardcore fucked. I'm not willing to entertain scum in making up possible scumteams that aren't the actual scumteam - on the wildly off chance that I'm horribly wrong, I'll find out via egg on my face and then the spoiled dead QT. I will not find out by thinking about Amrun or Chara for the 101st time.

[Farkran]

it's nice in theory to say "if Farkran flips town, then Psyche should shoot in Bingle/Nacho, preferably Bingle"

Wait, what...? Like, seriously, what? How does my townflip aggravate Bingle's position and make Nacho look better?

[Farkran]

Farkran: i feel like you talked about this but i can't find it in your ISO, is English not your first language or am i thinking of someone else? sorry for the weird question.

Yeah, i'm based in italy, native language is italian. I might fail some grammar from time to time.

[Farkran]

I think that you and Farkran made a mistake by shooting Psyche when you did. I think Farkran misread his confidence level in those Farkran/Bingle townreads but I think with Psyche having hard townreads on 4/5 of the living means that he's going to reanalyze and I don't think that process is going to end up looking too good for you.

So you're going to assume that Psyche is going to shoot me on the basis that you think you can guess how psyche would reevaluate using information that neither of us have in addition to the information readily available in the thread when people are saying at large that I've been acting more town recently than before?

So you're going to assume that Psyche is going to shoot me on the basis that you think you can guess how psyche would reevaluate using information that neither of us have in addition to the information readily available in the thread when people are saying at large that I've been acting more town recently than before?

Two thumbs up.

I might have said that you've been more townie recently, and if I did, I apologize because I've been a big fat liar. You've been more reasonable lately - you've provided sound logic which doesn't rule you out as scum in the least bit. I can't see Psyche shooting anyone that isn't you.

Ok, wait a second.

Set aside Nacho's asspulled progression on me and Bingle, and his stubborness in believing everyone else is town without having produced the smallest bit of content to backup this thought, i'd like an explanation to a couple things.

1) Psyche was hardtownreading 4/7 of the living in {Bingle, Farkran, Hectic, Suji}, he had at least a townlean on Nacho, and was at least scumleaning {Chara, Amrun}. Where does the 4/5 come from, and who are you referring to?
2) What does Psyche have to re-evaluate? The only worlds that make sense are scum!Fark and scum!Nacho, mutually exclusive. This is why sorting between us is so important today, as you have written only a few posts earlier.

Serious questions. What does Psyche have to re-evaluate after today's flip?

[popsofctown]

20 HP