Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

[Auro]

Suji, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the other slots. Can you comment on my post about why Chemist is scum?

[Sujimichi]

Could you point me to the post you are referring to?

[Auro]

She is not re-evaluating her stances based on Egix96's reveal as Town,

Suji, I'd like you to go into more detail about this - which stances of hers do you believe should have been re-evaluated post the Egix flip?

[Auro]

Claiming Mason if he's actually Mason is a horribly dumb play, and the reasons he gave for it are stupid.

There's zero reason to claim it to "get out of a PoE" when you're not the lynch.
He said something about not pushing partners, which makes no sense.
He used his Mason claim as an excuse to lurk this game "to avoid getting shot" which is again very dumb if he actually was a Mason.
If you know you'd get shot, and that's functionally no different from a lynch (which was an option if you're in a PoE) and there's no benefit at all to be derived from confirming yourself as Mason. It's terrible for town to out yourself.

On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense if {Suji, Pops, Chemist} is the scumteam or even just {Suji. Chemist} - he's throwing a Hail Mary to distract town and add noise, and maybe draw out a Mason counterclaim. He seems a bit angry at other players "obfuscating" it, and tried to make TSE back down from the claim in case he was VT - this is suggestive of fishing.

He attempted to break the townbloc before by suggesting "scum in Auro/Klick" based on Suji being a counterwagon to Cheeky - where everyone one Cheeky was lolwagoning her at the time.

He's done no real gamesolving this game. Sure he might be useless lynchbait as town, but whatever he has done this game has very plausible scum motivation. There's no critical thought in his posts.

Sure, re-quoted.

[Auro]

You are also ascribing behaviors to me that I do not exhibit which, if you have read my previous games as you obviously have done, you would be aware of.

When I said "You" in the post it was rhetoric, and wasn't describing your play - rather how I believe town would behave. Can you point out the behaviors I falsely ascribed you of?

[popsofctown]

Site rule 2 hasn't been interpreted to relate to the classic "X is active elsewhere on site". You could mount an argument that if the posts elsewhere on site are in mafia games (which for Sujimichi I'm almost certain they are) then you're discussing an ongoing game and discussing something specific about that ongoing game, though, (were you able to say "X is active on site" on Tuesday? How about Wednesday?) and running around using it to catch "freshman Creature" types isn't the most beautiful way to be playing the game which is why some players decline opportunities to bring it up. The thing is, if the player isn't a "freshman Creature" type of player, it generally backfires/isn't accurate. If the player is, it probably lets you figure out the difference between a quiet scum roll vs. a town player who was busy, but hey, we just said this player is freshman Creature, cmon, can't we make you feel bad for needing any kind of crutch at all?
__________________________________________________________________________________
Klick's scumcase on ML was this long wall from a slot that's been blips and bleeps and I feel more convinced that Klick is town than I do that ML is certain scum. One thing to point out: how much have you played with CheekyTeeky? Because, like, usually it's beyond absurd to think a player would shoot themselves. But like.. it's CheekyTeeky. She could do anything. I assumed maybe ML has some familiarity with CT that made it seem less impossible.

[popsofctown]

I share Sujimichi's scumread of CSF as I've mentioned before. I think I owe ML something closer to a reads list than a post by post casing next in this game tho

[Sujimichi]

She is not re-evaluating her stances based on Egix96's reveal as Town,

Suji, I'd like you to go into more detail about this - which stances of hers do you believe should have been re-evaluated post the Egix flip?

I would think she would re-evaluate her reads from "Chemist, Egix, Suji" after Egix96 was revealed to be Town. However, her next stated team was "Suji, Pops, Chem" with a weak rationale of re-reviewing a fairly clear interaction despite her previously having popsofctown based on that same interaction which she explained.

Spoiler: Posts

Town:
Myself
Auro
Klick
CSF

Scum: (top Lowest, Bottom Highest)
Chemist
Pops
Suji
ML
Egix

Chemist, Egix, Suji I think I agree with

I'm not really sold on Klick town.

I don't think Pops is SvS with CT, there were a couple of posts from CT that read as discrediting towards Pops. ML's tone seemed towny to me earlier and I'm not really seeing why ML had to have taken the shot on Aldus earlier.

I also reviewed CT/Pops again, and I admit it wasn't as clearing as I thought it was. Pops scum also makes sense with Suji scum.

Suji, Pops, Chem? Not confident on Chem but I think Klick is townier than him so

[Chemist1422]

Egix, who do you scumread?

Auro, are you buddying me?

pedit: can I get in on this support group

No because I'm the capricious Duchess and I don't personally scumread your towntone.

CheekyTeeky is out too because I only scumread her towntactics.

Chemist1422 is invited to submit an application.

is it too late to apply to this

[popsofctown]

Egix, who do you scumread?

Auro, are you buddying me?

pedit: can I get in on this support group

No because I'm the capricious Duchess and I don't personally scumread your towntone.

CheekyTeeky is out too because I only scumread her towntactics.

Chemist1422 is invited to submit an application.

is it too late to apply to this

It's not too late
it's never too late

[Sujimichi]

Claiming Mason if he's actually Mason is a horribly dumb play, and the reasons he gave for it are stupid.

There's zero reason to claim it to "get out of a PoE" when you're not the lynch.
He said something about not pushing partners, which makes no sense.
He used his Mason claim as an excuse to lurk this game "to avoid getting shot" which is again very dumb if he actually was a Mason.
If you know you'd get shot, and that's functionally no different from a lynch (which was an option if you're in a PoE) and there's no benefit at all to be derived from confirming yourself as Mason. It's terrible for town to out yourself.

On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense if {Suji, Pops, Chemist} is the scumteam or even just {Suji. Chemist} - he's throwing a Hail Mary to distract town and add noise, and maybe draw out a Mason counterclaim. He seems a bit angry at other players "obfuscating" it, and tried to make TSE back down from the claim in case he was VT - this is suggestive of fishing.

He attempted to break the townbloc before by suggesting "scum in Auro/Klick" based on Suji being a counterwagon to Cheeky - where everyone one Cheeky was lolwagoning her at the time.

He's done no real gamesolving this game. Sure he might be useless lynchbait as town, but whatever he has done this game has very plausible scum motivation. There's no critical thought in his posts.

Sure, re-quoted.

Your entire case relies on Chemist1422 to make the correct play as a Mason when your conclusion is that Chemist1422 usually does not make the Town indicative plays as Town. You can ascribe whatever reasoning fits in the middle to push your point, but it relies on myself being Mafia (which I know to be untrue), and I do not agree with your "townbloc" to begin with, so this is more information to suit your established viewpoint.

[Sujimichi]

You are also ascribing behaviors to me that I do not exhibit which, if you have read my previous games as you obviously have done, you would be aware of.

When I said "You" in the post it was rhetoric, and wasn't describing your play - rather how I believe town would behave. Can you point out the behaviors I falsely ascribed you of?

I was speaking specifically of the aggression you stated would be a typical reaction. I addressed the remainder of your point with regard to the next sentence in my response to your case.

[Sujimichi]

freshman Creature

What do you mean by this?

[Auro]

we just said this player is freshman Creature, cmon, can't we make you feel bad for needing any kind of crutch at all?

I'll think about it... Information is information but I get your point.

@Suji, CSF has Chemist/PopS/You all in her scumpile, so I'm not sure where you'd expect her to end up on a re-evaluation given the new information.

Scum in Chemist/Pops/Suji/Egix/ML -> Egix flips town -> scum in Chemist/Pops/Suji?

Like this seems like the logical conclusion? Maybe I don't get what you're saying and I'll think about it more.

[popsofctown]

Creature was famous for lurking and hardly posting at all when he was scum and being active and participating when he was town his first year playing the game.

Many players follow that trend to a lesser extent.

Creature is a much more diverse player now.

[Sujimichi]

we just said this player is freshman Creature, cmon, can't we make you feel bad for needing any kind of crutch at all?

I'll think about it... Information is information but I get your point.

@Suji, CSF has Chemist/PopS/You all in her scumpile, so I'm not sure where you'd expect her to end up on a re-evaluation given the new information.

Scum in Chemist/Pops/Suji/Egix/ML -> Egix flips town -> scum in Chemist/Pops/Suji?

Like this seems like the logical conclusion? Maybe I don't get what you're saying and I'll think about it more.

You did not understand since you described this inaccurately. Cat Scratch Fever Townread popsofctown due to her not being Scum versus Scum with CheekyTeeky prior to Egix96's reveal as Town, but then Cat Scratch Fever "reread" and came to the conclusion that she had read it incorrectly with regard to strength initially and now popsofctown was Mafia. She also expressed a Townread on Miss Lynch. This was as of post 886 which I quoted above.

So it went Chemist/Egix/Suji -> Egix flips town -> scum in Chemist/Pops/Suji. She was just wrong on her scum read that she had enough confidence in to lynch. Why would she not re-evaluate her other reads when she decided to re-read the popsofctown/CheekyTeeky interactions? You are stating that I should have been re-evaluating my reads based on Mason flips as a reason to scum read me, are you not?

[Sujimichi]

Creature was famous for lurking and hardly posting at all when he was scum and being active and participating when he was town his first year playing the game.

Many players follow that trend to a lesser extent.

Creature is a much more diverse player now.

Thank you.

[Chemist1422]

I’ve read pops’s ISO in three different games and still don’t think I can read her

If I had to say I’d say she’s a little bit towny

[Auro]

I assumed maybe ML has some familiarity with CT that made it seem less impossible.

For what it's worth, I think it's absolutely believable coming from ML. It doesn't look like the kind of thing someone would fake.

@Chemist: How come you were more interested in sorting Pops first over me?

[Auro]

@Chemist: Can you give me a scumteam solve?

[Chemist1422]

I assumed maybe ML has some familiarity with CT that made it seem less impossible.

For what it's worth, I think it's absolutely believable coming from ML. It doesn't look like the kind of thing someone would fake.

@Chemist: How come you were more interested in sorting Pops first over me?

I’ve played with pops more than you iirc

[Chemist1422]

@Chemist: Can you give me a scumteam solve?

Not an informed one

[Auro]

You haven't read the game or yet to analyze?
Whatever you feel is the highest % rn

[Chemist1422]

i am working on it

[Auro]

What comes to mind first. Go.