Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

[TrueSoulEnergy]

@Auro
Do you still think Suji is the correct lynch here?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I find it somewhat unlikely that you can discern intent or alignment from three, brief posts.

I fundamentally disagree and have discerned alignment in 3 or fewer posts, or at least tried to. It's akin to someone having a gutread to someone's entrance, and no one was locking you as scum because of it but rather used it as an avenue to pressure, which I think is fine and valid. but whatever, I'm not sure it's fruitful to continue this argument.

By taking in account all opinions I can better for a read not only on Auro, but others as well. As to your dislike of my comment "anything can be explained away," I think it is important for you to note that I was reciprocating phrasing from Auro himself.

I wouldn't say the two are wholly similar in that you used it as a reason to disengage, and the disengagement felt unnatural to me and the "anything can be explained away" was a smaller part of it.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

She is not re-evaluating her stances based on Egix96's reveal as Town, and she is not trying to engage with Klick despite stating that she wanted to "pick his brain" more.

What stances do you expect me to have reassessed?

I don't think I haven't tried to engage with Klick so much as haven't had the opportunity to unless you count yesterday where I checked into the thread and had to leave without having the opportunity to post more.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I share Sujimichi's scumread of CSF as I've mentioned before. I think I owe ML something closer to a reads list than a post by post casing next in this game tho

Why? Are your reasons for scumreading me the same?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

She is not re-evaluating her stances based on Egix96's reveal as Town,

Suji, I'd like you to go into more detail about this - which stances of hers do you believe should have been re-evaluated post the Egix flip?

I would think she would re-evaluate her reads from "Chemist, Egix, Suji" after Egix96 was revealed to be Town. However, her next stated team was "Suji, Pops, Chem" with a weak rationale of re-reviewing a fairly clear interaction despite her previously having popsofctown based on that same interaction which she explained.

Spoiler: Posts

Town:
Myself
Auro
Klick
CSF

Scum: (top Lowest, Bottom Highest)
Chemist
Pops
Suji
ML
Egix

Chemist, Egix, Suji I think I agree with

I'm not really sold on Klick town.

I don't think Pops is SvS with CT, there were a couple of posts from CT that read as discrediting towards Pops. ML's tone seemed towny to me earlier and I'm not really seeing why ML had to have taken the shot on Aldus earlier.

I also reviewed CT/Pops again, and I admit it wasn't as clearing as I thought it was. Pops scum also makes sense with Suji scum.

Suji, Pops, Chem? Not confident on Chem but I think Klick is townier than him so

Did you see my conversation with Auro? It's not like I just randomly decided to reassess Pops and CT.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Yeah Suji is the best Lynch here still.

VOTE: Suji

Mafia will then shoot me after this.
Or if One of Pops/Chemist in some world is fake Claiming Mason.
Then I guess they could also be shot.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

lick - Klick throughout the game has done little bits of interaction that seemed kind of towny with a tiny cute curled y but for much of the game the low quantities of those posts made me feel like it was good faking, and there is only a low quantity of it he can fake. Increasing his output a lot (apparently because his inlaws left, so not because we must have scum up against the wall) refutes the only reservation I had.

What do you think of Klick's townslip case on ML?

Sujimichi - Sujimichi's case on CSF is one I agree with, and it has been pretty solvey. Auro's reasons in his case are persuasive about Sujimichi, though, counterweighing that.

I'm a little bit surprised to read the second part of this quote and then your read on me because at their core, I think my reasons for scumreading Suji were similar to Auro's points 1 and 2 when you distill them down.

But I guess that's three people now who weren't particularly convinced by my case one of whom I do still townread, so maybe I really shouldn't be that surprised.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I've outlined who I believe the Mafia team is and my rationale as to each. It would stand to reason that the remainder of the players are those that I Townread. I've also stated that I believe that Cat Scratch Fever is my preferred lynch for today and outlined my reasons why. However, I came into Saturday and today (meaning Monday, not this phase) not completely caught up to a completely different state of game than when I was last present, and with four people willing to vote me (and Auro having voted me despite my request to allow me a chance to catch up, though he did unvote later). Yes, I provided a defense for myself as it is necessary given that Mafia only needs to convince two Town members to vote for me to win. However, it is not the only thing that I have done.

Can you remind me who your third scumread is?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Nevermind my last post

[Auro]

@TSE: I think so, but I'd like to wait for a day and let the game play out a bit more.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Klick what's your read on pops?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cat Scratch I want to hear your opinion on Auro slot as of now when you threadvisit.

I still think he's town.

[Auro]

And, it's actually probably really town indicative, because scum!Auro would see what I posted and think "that's what town!pops posts here, I know because I just read it and I have her role PM in notepad", but town!Auro is speculating.

Regardless of alignment it's not too hard to notice a difference in the way you react to things. As scum who wants to sell you as scum, I'd constantly be thinking of additional reasons to build my case and would jump on the opportunity to portray a change in behaviour as scum-indicative.

Your calling it "extremely town indicative" for -me- here seems a little forced, to be honest.

[Auro]

@Auro
Do you still think Suji is the correct lynch here?

Having Egix and three Masons as her solve is still wild, lol, when save Egix the rest were very towny

[TrueSoulEnergy]

@Auro
Do you still think Suji is the correct lynch here?

Having Egix and three Masons as her solve is still wild, lol, when save Egix the rest were very towny

Not sure I get what this is saying.
The last part I mean.

[Auro]

Actually ignore that.

[popsofctown]

And, it's actually probably really town indicative, because scum!Auro would see what I posted and think "that's what town!pops posts here, I know because I just read it and I have her role PM in notepad", but town!Auro is speculating.

Regardless of alignment it's not too hard to notice a difference in the way you react to things. As scum who wants to sell you as scum, I'd constantly be thinking of additional reasons to build my case and would jump on the opportunity to portray a change in behaviour as scum-indicative.

Your calling it "extremely town indicative" for -me- here seems a little forced, to be honest.

Generally quotation marks are used to repeat something someone else has said verbatim but if you are scum trying to kill townies for townposting I can see how you might wanna use them differently so blatantly

I am not sure that's the correct interpretation while I do think it may need a dramatic interpretation

[Auro]

Oh wow I thought you actually said that, excuse me.

[popsofctown]

You realize lynching right once earns us another day, right?

I really didn't, my brain has been having some trouble with nightless. It's a nightless that can have special type of shot happen so I find it hard to count out.

[popsofctown]

I share Sujimichi's scumread of CSF as I've mentioned before. I think I owe ML something closer to a reads list than a post by post casing next in this game tho

Why? Are your reasons for scumreading me the same?

My reasons overlap with Sujimichi's a lot, but there was also the IioA point I added. You do a lot of interactions that won't lead anywhere, and I think you know they don't lead anywhere.

[popsofctown]

lick - Klick throughout the game has done little bits of interaction that seemed kind of towny with a tiny cute curled y but for much of the game the low quantities of those posts made me feel like it was good faking, and there is only a low quantity of it he can fake. Increasing his output a lot (apparently because his inlaws left, so not because we must have scum up against the wall) refutes the only reservation I had.

What do you think of Klick's townslip case on ML?

Sujimichi - Sujimichi's case on CSF is one I agree with, and it has been pretty solvey. Auro's reasons in his case are persuasive about Sujimichi, though, counterweighing that.

I'm a little bit surprised to read the second part of this quote and then your read on me because at their core, I think my reasons for scumreading Suji were similar to Auro's points 1 and 2 when you distill them down.

But I guess that's three people now who weren't particularly convinced by my case one of whom I do still townread, so maybe I really shouldn't be that surprised.

I believe Klick believes it but I think it's wrong. It's just not necessary to imagine the more contrived scenario when you're away of what a vorpal player CheekyTeeky is. There's other reasons you might want to put ML as town, though.

[Miss Lane]

I have to sleep tonight and I will be incapable of accessing the internet for an additional 24 hours after tomorrow morning, I will be back Wednesday. Request no one gets premature.

[Klick]

Klick what's your read on pops?

Meant to go into this last night but I ran out of time

Pops is my second-strongest townread, right behind TSE. She had a similar read of the ML/Auro/Aldus dynamic to me early on, and I got the vibe that pops was actively avoiding stirring up shit in the wave of pages where a bunch of people are just stirring up shit. Her posts that aren't explicitly off-topic all read as engaged and trying to sort.

Her self-meta response to me was really solid:

Also pops
What have you done so far in this game, if anything, that you wouldn't do as scum?
I realise this is a self-meta question and some people hate that but humor me pls :3

Auro is wrong, selfmeta is awful.
I wouldn't have drunkposted as much as I did. I only drunkposted once as scum last year, and it was a rather deliberate "I actually think this might throw away this game for me but I can't have this become a trust tell for me" but there were times I put posting off because it was a scumgame and I think there is slip risk. In the right context I would still catch up on the game but this will be one of those dumber unverifiable elements of selfmeta, I had a new deck idea I wanted to try in Legends of Runeterra and I like playing Legends of Runeterra with a drink but I actually had to put off trying it any that evening because this was a game I needed to solve. As scum I would have just caught up the next day. As scum sick and tired of playing Hecarim again because I can't think of anything better maybe I push the boundaries of how much I dare to drunkpost, maybe I still don't and watch youtube, it'd be harder for me to guess.

I think I also would not have approached this game as slowly as I have as scum, I think I'd have come up with a mislynch informercial or be bussing a partner for cred by now. On that note, Alduskkel did something that made me want to UNVOTE: . Sorry Sujimichi

My theory is that some people as town and scum approach this sort of question fundamentally differently. People are much more aware of their own towntells and scumtells than others are. As town I am typically conscious of when I've exited my scumrange, while as scum in most circumstances I'd really struggle to answer this question in a way that would have any sort of appearance of veracity. Basically, from scum I'd expect to not feel too compelled by their response to this question, and from town I'd expect something genuine. I've used this tell one other time and it successfully got me to townread a slot that I was otherwise super tunneled on all game - I can go find that if anyone cares.
Pops' response reads genuine. I buy that she actively avoids drunkposting as scum, and I don't think Open 773 is the gane she decides to break the mold on that. Especially since the fact that she doesn't do this as scum came out unprompted - I don't get the sense she had this fact in her holster ready to pull out as a towntell in this game. And she posted a ton of content while drunk, so I don't feel like she was holding back/doing it in a controlled way.

I think there's credit to her being one of the only people with a legitimate scumread on Cheeky. There's not much partner equity there.
Her townslip was solid too, more nuanced and airtight than ML's - I talked about this earlier but I'd be happy to go into more detail if anyone wants me to

And just generally her content has felt earnest to me. Particularly today it feels like she has recognised that she's a potential lynch target, and her response has felt like town trying to fix a bad gamestate from her perspective as opposed to scum who is fine with how things are. Unless the solve is like exactly pops/Suji/{Chem, ML} and she's scrambling, but her interactions with the Suji slot don't really feel like SvS to me.

So yeah, I think pops is town here.

[Klick]

Especially since the fact that she doesn't do this as scum came out unprompted -

didn't come out unprompted*

[Auro]

Interesting. Still, would you agree Suji is the best lynch here? Or do you aim to sort in {Auro, Miss Lynch} and lynch there?