Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Hectic]

HEAL: Replica
i'm disappointed that my preference is still what i started the day with except i'm not. this is objectively the right thing to do. Replica's town, nothing i've looked at has really changed that and my

only

problem with the slot is he goes for a Bingle spare every time before one on himself. but i understand why. also if he is scum then the whole frustration bit would i think have to be faked.

re: Farkran's last post i really don't think Replica has been anything near unpleasant. he just scumreads you. he's also been analyzing, you just disagree. and you're wrong too, given you have Hectic scum still and i find it really pointless to argue about that further either.

HURT: Chemist
i want to spare Replica, but if for some reason that's not happening this is the only hurt vote i'm making today. and i'm sorry but while he probably is town if this is right i'm not comfortable sparing Bingle. i'm actually not sure if a Bingle mispare or a Chemist mislynch is worse. probably a flip is better than no flip. Bingle is a vague townread based on his posting today which i've liked, and Chemist is poe + i think a struggle to produce genuine content.

Chemist/Farkran does seem extremely obvious. i didn't manage to really get a read on Nacho i'm happy with, but i think he could be badly absent scum with Chemist (though i feel like scum Nacho woud make more of an effort? but this is a guess i don't know him well, based on my impressions from this game and what other players have said). i could see absent scum Chemist a little better, and especially his last few posts feel like an attempt at content that is just... there, and leads to a Bingle/Nacho solve.
and if Farkran is scum i find it unlikely it's with Nacho. as for Farkran himself, i'd compromise on that if it's literally the only option but i would absolutely prefer just sparing Replica. a Farkran townflip is probably good information too, scumflip's obviously good, but this consistent choice to double down on Hectic being scum as a scum strategy seems like a ridiculous amount of effort and i don't really understand it. also players i clash with this heavily do tend to be town more often than scum, though that feels anecdotal.
if Amrun

is

scum i haven't really checked who it would be with.

i'm going back home today but i have mafia time this evening. i wish i'd had the thought earlier of scum being absolutely unable to hard bus today because someone did mention it much earlier, and i knew it, and for whatever reason only now did the thought occur to me that scum who cannot bus means you wagon the hell out of the game.

VOTE: chemist

We need to flip something.

Fuck

HURT: chemist

HEAL: replica

HURT: chemist

Better than a spare.

Chara expresses interest in SPARING Replica. It's FIGHT vote is a secondary vote which only puts Chemist on L-2. Scum!Chara has no way of knowing town!Amrun will also vote Chemist and allow Farkran to hammer. It's FIGHT vote comes from a towny place.

Amrun states we need to flip something and FIGHTs Chemist, but then also SPAREs Replica in the same post; likely a vote more for appearances than intention to SPARE Replica.

Farkran follows up with a FIGHT hammer on Chemist; he absolutely cannot allow Replica to be SPARED.

I

believe

Farkran and Amrun's votes on Chemist were coordinated. Amrun is guilty of taking 3 Snowman Pieces.

[Hectic]

Also

, I just realised Replica's profile picture changed:



For a weird cat person zombie thing creature of some kind; I miss that guy.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm so glad we went neutral guys!! Getting new blood in to contribute and to lead midgame is quite interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

I have thoughts and we will go into them, trust. But I’d like nacho to answer me first.

Chara's always been a stronger townread than you.

I don't like your sudden almost change of heart on Bingle yesterday when you were scumreading him the whole game, felt fake. I didn't like your "spicy take - let's lynch Nacho" for obvious reasons.

If Farkran maintained the same scum habits from when he was a wee newbie (aka first newbie game) then he treated you like how he detailed he treated his scum partners (to a T).

[Nachomamma8]

Why did you need an explanation for me lynching you? Why hold off on the opinion?

[Nachomamma8]

Also (this reasoning is just for fun it's not really something that factors into my overall thinking) but Farkran talked about Amrun's scumgame the same way he talked about his own in the "she's not scum with anyone because she'd just be able to win the game and crush everyone if she was".

[Nachomamma8]

Why did you need an explanation for me lynching you? Why hold off on the opinion?

These questions are additionally just rhetorical. I don't like the hedging at the beginning of the day - if she was town I'd expect her to snap back there after she sees me approach so tunnel-mindedly, matter of factly in an effort to lynch her. Amrun needs one mislynch after me so she can't afford to leave herself up shit's creek without a paddle.

[Amrun]

I have thoughts and we will go into them, trust. But I’d like nacho to answer me first.

Chara's always been a stronger townread than you.

I don't like your sudden almost change of heart on Bingle yesterday when you were scumreading him the whole game, felt fake. I didn't like your "spicy take - let's lynch Nacho" for obvious reasons.

If Farkran maintained the same scum habits from when he was a wee newbie (aka first newbie game) then he treated you like how he detailed he treated his scum partners (to a T).

Change of heart?? No. That’s a total misrep. I started the day voting Farkran. I took a detour on Bingle while maintaining that my solve was Farkran/Bingle, and stating that my vote was effectively on Farkran as well. I was very consistent that I scumread Farkran. And actually throughout the day, I liked Bingle’s posting, which I also stated several times.

Chara offered me the opportunity to flip Bingle first, which I considered and discarded in favor of fighting Farkran first, whom I felt had a higher chance of flipping scum.

It’s all pretty transparent.


The argument about Farkran talking up my scum game, but considering he’s never played scum with me, it was all BS. Originally I assumed it was because I have been dominant as scum lately and he’s not the first person to say that. But the way he ended his last post was clearly purposeful and meant to create WIFOM around me.

So you opening the day reversing your read on me feels very coordinated. Today, for the first time, you definitely have an agenda. You’re not trying to sort me or think critically, you’re trying to hatchet your way to endgame.

Thanks for making this simple.

HURT: Nacho

Outside chance of Hectic. Chara wouldn’t have given me that opening on Bingle.

[Chara]

Chara's always been a stronger townread than you.

this is news to me. when i pressed you yesterday you didn't indicate this.

[Chara]

scum Amrun means she decided to give in and vote her partner, when she could have stayed on Bingle. and it's fair to say Nacho would have hammered it. it's possible she decided to cut her losses, but in terms of having an agenda, i also liked Bingle's posting yesterday and i don't think it's strange Amrun was wavering on it with how they were interacting.

i do find it interesting that Nacho encouraged me to lynch in him/Bingle/Farkran and to trust my Amrun TR yesterday, and when i asked about his confidence in me and Amrun he didn't differentiate between us. but today Amrun isn't as good of a townread, and her wavering on Bingle is scummy.

[Chara]

Like there's too much overthinking going on at this point in time. You trust your townread on Amrun. There's not a good reason for you to distrust a townread you've had on Amrun all game.

From there, Farkran is still peddling the same line of garbage that he's been peddling the entire game. There is a clear scum agenda to peddling this particular line of garbage if he is scum.
Either he is an insane off-the-wall player ("scum wouldn't spare town D2, that's wild!!! is still a central point of the worldview he's held all day), or he's scum. His other completed towngames show a reasonable and thoughtful and very good player - a player who hasn't been present in this game with us.

Meanwhile, in your pool of three people, two people are mutually townreading each other and have person #3 at the bottom. The solution of "oh they're defending each other because giving town the catharsis of a scum flip here if they don't have to is insanely dumb" seems obvious to me - do you really disagree?

the problem i have with it is mainly that Amrun and i are i believe more emotional players in a very general sense, while Farkran and Bingle are the logical type.

I don't believe this generalization is worth much at all. The reason why I feel an emotional connection with the two of you is deeper than "these are emotional players versus the logical players in the corner", this is not my first rodeo. You feel similarly wrt Amrun, she feels the same wrt you - me weaving lies to put words to the emotion that we both feel isn't particularly useful at this point.

I have thoughts and we will go into them, trust. But I’d like nacho to answer me first.

Chara's always been a stronger townread than you.

I don't like your sudden almost change of heart on Bingle yesterday when you were scumreading him the whole game, felt fake. I didn't like your "spicy take - let's lynch Nacho" for obvious reasons.

If Farkran maintained the same scum habits from when he was a wee newbie (aka first newbie game) then he treated you like how he detailed he treated his scum partners (to a T).

the fact he's using my Amrun TR to push a lynch on his partner hurts this thought a bit, but that he goes from that to this case today based on Amrun's actions yesterday does feel prepared.

why was i a stronger townread, and when did you realize you didn't like these things from Amrun?

[Chara]

would appreciate input from Hectic and Suji on that. i'm usually inclined to trust my hard townreads more than my gameplay logic, though i'm trying to improve on the latter. i understand Suji holding off for the beginning though.

if Amrun was bussing, she didn't commit to it and basically gave up in a bid for towncred, and presumably due to confidence i would continue to TR her. she had mislynch opportunities on both Nacho and Bingle that would have made sense.

if Nacho was bussing he and Farkran committed hard to it, which is a big gamble, especially given the likelihood of one of them being lynched day 3.

and i TR Hectic as well. and again, Farkran tried to get him lynched and continue to question TRs on him all game. Amrun makes the most sense in a straightforward way from that so i understand the read there. also i could be wrong in TRing her.

also, if Hectic was scum, i don't think Farkran fights against further sparing so hard.

[Amrun]

For the record, I wanted to wait to see if Nacho’s progression would make sense to me, but it does not.

[Sujimichi]

I did not like that you waited, and would not at least provide your primary suspect. I will provide my full thoughts once I have confirmed an administrative item with the moderator.

[Nachomamma8]

Change of heart?? No. That’s a total misrep. I started the day voting Farkran. I took a detour on Bingle while maintaining that my solve was Farkran/Bingle, and stating that my vote was effectively on Farkran as well. I was very consistent that I scumread Farkran. And actually throughout the day, I liked Bingle’s posting, which I also stated several times.

Bingle was your primary scumread for a long time. Yesterday was the first time you seemed to flirt with the possibility of him being town.

[Nachomamma8]

Today, for the first time, you definitely have an agenda. You’re not trying to sort me or think critically, you’re trying to hatchet your way to endgame.

Had an agenda yesterday as well.
You're correct that I'm past the sorting and thinking critically stage - feel strongly about the Farkran interactions point and so here we are.

[Nachomamma8]

this is news to me. when i pressed you yesterday you didn't indicate this.

Didn't realize it yesterday.

[Nachomamma8]

scum Amrun means she decided to give in and vote her partner, when she could have stayed on Bingle. and it's fair to say Nacho would have hammered it. it's possible she decided to cut her losses, but in terms of having an agenda, i also liked Bingle's posting yesterday and i don't think it's strange Amrun was wavering on it with how they were interacting.

I think it would have looked worse for Amrun if she moved the wagon to Bingle from Farkran - think there would be a much more significant chance of her being shot by Psyche if she guided town to a mislynch at that point.

[Nachomamma8]

i do find it interesting that Nacho encouraged me to lynch in him/Bingle/Farkran and to trust my Amrun TR yesterday, and when i asked about his confidence in me and Amrun he didn't differentiate between us. but today Amrun isn't as good of a townread, and her wavering on Bingle is scummy.

Man it's almost like I didn't expect Bingle to flip town and me to be living to see this day. It's like I was woefully unprepared to engage in a 1v1 with anyone at this point and since I thought the game ended with a Farkran and Bingle flip.

[Nachomamma8]

And meanwhile you have Amrun looking to the future with her going "Nacho is scum. With a backup of Hectic." - how does Hectic make even the vaguest sense of scum after a Farkran scum flip? Why wouldn't Amrun see that?

[Nachomamma8]

And my big sticking point - aka the part that matters most at the moment is that I think that Farkran would have had to bussed you or Hectic for really dumb and crazy reasons when he's someone who dislikes bussing in the first place. That doesn't apply to Amrun, who he stl criticized often enough but never actually scumread (despite scumreading like everyone else).

[Nachomamma8]

If your primary way to understand my play in endgame is suddenly digging through progressions post-Chemist lynch then you will end up voting me 100% of the time and might as well save yourself the anguish now and vote for me. I've spent my time studying the game and spending actual time thinking about things - my play from here on out is more of a "heart of the cards" type scenario.

[Nachomamma8]

Although, for your hot "post game Get to Know a Nacho" tip, if I were scum here, there's no way I spend all that time reading Farkran's posts and digging through his other games and reaching a "town with some reservations that I ultimately ignore" and then start mutual bussing two days later as opposed to a "FARKRAN IS TOWN" or "FARKRAN IS SCUM" declaration from then on. My justification of all that time would be using it to push an agenda which I straight up didn't, but as town, sometimes you just waste a bunch of time. Sometimes you end up in the end game with some hideous looking progressions that don't really make sense to anyone but yourself (and not really even to yourself), but, despite playing a game that is incredibly ugly, still being town in the end.

[Nachomamma8]

Like, despite me lurking so hard that I got replaced (and came back) and also saying I wasn't going to disappear and then somehow disappearing for an entire day, Farkran was the first scum lynched this game. If we were looking at a Farkran/Nacho scumteam, I really don't think that would have been the case.

[Nachomamma8]

So you opening the day reversing your read on me feels very coordinated. Today, for the first time, you definitely have an agenda. You’re not trying to sort me or think critically, you’re trying to hatchet your way to endgame.

Thanks for making this simple.

HURT: Nacho

Outside chance of Hectic. Chara wouldn’t have given me that opening on Bingle.

Also Chara don't see how this doesn't bother you.

Amrun's "I'm firmly confident in you being town Chara" is... what, exactly?