Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

[Klick]

Scum!Klick would live for the SUPERSQUAD lmao.

[Auro]

Why not just include TSE on that list?

Pedit: He listed every possible configuration where he's town IIRC lol - please name them. Please name the CSF/Auro teams.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Aw man.
I was trying to form my own Masonary after I lost mine.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

I think we lynch ML.

@Auro
Based around PoE they seem to be the best lynch given the current game state.

[Auro]

@TSE: Unless you believe {Klick, Pops, Chemist} is not a possible solve, ML is a bad lynch

[popsofctown]

Nice excuse to avoid naming teams which are pretty blatantly unlikely?
"Logical thought" is the skill category we're talking about here, not "finding the scumteam preflip"

That's like saying every physics problem is a math problem
or every accounting problem is a math problem
or every statistics problem is a math problem
which is true yet still doesn't speak to much
that's not even metaphor since some in academia consider math and logic to be equivalent
I don't focus on associatives so my attempts to distinguish between distancing theatre or not is weaker than my individual reads
if you want to BoP me on the things I'm least confident on it is much less aggravating than other angles you've taken, "have fun" was only ironic, not sarcastic. I fundamentally disagree about it though, I often scumread players for being bad at mechplayer when they're supposed to be good at it and give others a pass, for instance

[Klick]

@TSE:

ML is not a bad lynch, but CSF is better and I'd like to see where it goes.
Can you talk about why you're seeing CSF as town? I can't remember if you have already

[TrueSoulEnergy]

@TSE: Unless you believe {Klick, Pops, Chemist} is not a possible solve, ML is a bad lynch

I think it’s Pops/Chemist, Pops/Klick or Klick/Chemist

Not All 3.
I don’t think they all open wolf here.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

@TSE:

ML is not a bad lynch, but CSF is better and I'd like to see where it goes.
Can you talk about why you're seeing CSF as town? I can't remember if you have already

CSF has been pushed confirmed by scum.
Plus they haven’t really done anything that I feel could lead to them being scum.
It’s like. It’s more probable ML is scum then CSF IMO.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

I think CSF is an obvious ML.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

ML as in Mislynch.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

I GTG to sleep.
GN.

[Klick]

When you're back, could you give some thoughts on my pops towncase in 1622?

Actually, Auro could you do the same? Your only response to that at the time was 'Interesting' and then you went on to talk to me about a bunch of reasons you think she's scum instead.

[Klick]

CSF has been pushed confirmed by scum.

Cheeky placed a vote on CSF very shortly before she blew herself up. Her vote was a lot weaker than the other CSF votes at the time. I see no reason it couldn't have been a bus.

[Auro]

@TSE: Unless you believe {Klick, Pops, Chemist} is not a possible solve, ML is a bad lynch

I think it’s Pops/Chemist, Pops/Klick or Klick/Chemist

Not All 3.
I don’t think they all open wolf here.

Good thinking, but I wouldn't put it past them when I'm pushing for one their lynches

[popsofctown]

Scum!Klick would live for the SUPERSQUAD lmao.

What else would scum!Klick do right now?
I am bothered by the timing of the pops towncase because most of the information isn't fresh.

[Klick]

The pops towncase got piled under the ML read and looking at Auro's Suji case. I'd been wanting to post about it properly for a while but it was never a priority.

Scum!Klick wouldn't be so waffly on Auro for so long, regardless of Auro's alignment.

[Auro]

Klick what's your read on pops?

Meant to go into this last night but I ran out of time

Pops is my second-strongest townread, right behind TSE. She had a similar read of the ML/Auro/Aldus dynamic to me early on, and I got the vibe that pops was actively avoiding stirring up shit in the wave of pages where a bunch of people are just stirring up shit. Her posts that aren't explicitly off-topic all read as engaged and trying to sort.

Her self-meta response to me was really solid:

Also pops
What have you done so far in this game, if anything, that you wouldn't do as scum?
I realise this is a self-meta question and some people hate that but humor me pls :3

Auro is wrong, selfmeta is awful.
I wouldn't have drunkposted as much as I did. I only drunkposted once as scum last year, and it was a rather deliberate "I actually think this might throw away this game for me but I can't have this become a trust tell for me" but there were times I put posting off because it was a scumgame and I think there is slip risk. In the right context I would still catch up on the game but this will be one of those dumber unverifiable elements of selfmeta, I had a new deck idea I wanted to try in Legends of Runeterra and I like playing Legends of Runeterra with a drink but I actually had to put off trying it any that evening because this was a game I needed to solve. As scum I would have just caught up the next day. As scum sick and tired of playing Hecarim again because I can't think of anything better maybe I push the boundaries of how much I dare to drunkpost, maybe I still don't and watch youtube, it'd be harder for me to guess.

I think I also would not have approached this game as slowly as I have as scum, I think I'd have come up with a mislynch informercial or be bussing a partner for cred by now. On that note, Alduskkel did something that made me want to UNVOTE: . Sorry Sujimichi

My theory is that some people as town and scum approach this sort of question fundamentally differently. People are much more aware of their own towntells and scumtells than others are. As town I am typically conscious of when I've exited my scumrange, while as scum in most circumstances I'd really struggle to answer this question in a way that would have any sort of appearance of veracity. Basically, from scum I'd expect to not feel too compelled by their response to this question, and from town I'd expect something genuine. I've used this tell one other time and it successfully got me to townread a slot that I was otherwise super tunneled on all game - I can go find that if anyone cares.
Pops' response reads genuine. I buy that she actively avoids drunkposting as scum, and I don't think Open 773 is the gane she decides to break the mold on that. Especially since the fact that she doesn't do this as scum came out unprompted - I don't get the sense she had this fact in her holster ready to pull out as a towntell in this game. And she posted a ton of content while drunk, so I don't feel like she was holding back/doing it in a controlled way.

I think there's credit to her being one of the only people with a legitimate scumread on Cheeky. There's not much partner equity there.
Her townslip was solid too, more nuanced and airtight than ML's - I talked about this earlier but I'd be happy to go into more detail if anyone wants me to

And just generally her content has felt earnest to me. Particularly today it feels like she has recognised that she's a potential lynch target, and her response has felt like town trying to fix a bad gamestate from her perspective as opposed to scum who is fine with how things are. Unless the solve is like exactly pops/Suji/{Chem, ML} and she's scrambling, but her interactions with the Suji slot don't really feel like SvS to me.

So yeah, I think pops is town here.

If "not stirring up shit" is a towntell, then it should be a towntell for CSF also - when I was gladiating Pops, CSF asked if we had some BoP on each other, and mentioned that she wouldn't like us going at each other that way without one.

Appearing to be engaged and trying to sort is not really a strong towntell and is well within the range of Pops can fake. I'm surprised you don't see this "trying to sort" thing in me?

Scum can provide genuine self-meta. I think I've discussed this with Yshtola Rhul before, we agreed that it's not useful to affirm someone as town, but the negative holds value - when it feels non-genuine. Townreading her from that is meh. The specific point about her meta of avoiding drunkposting as scum holds *some* value. I don't feel like her "drunk posting" was very out of control - I'll study those again and see.

What did she do about the legitimate scumread of cheeky? I see that she voted cheeky a few times to unvote shortly after. You could say I was a distraction, but that still holds.

What's she done to fix the "bad gamestate" though?

[Auro]

I will repeat lest people forget that I think the vigshot timing was incriminating for her.

I am surprised how you find this to hold any weight at all.
Do you disagree that Cheeky probably took all four shots?
Do you think CSF took the Woodchuck shot?

If CSF was taking yolo shots (as in, while not anywhere near lynch range) why hasn't she taken one now with a few people pushing her?

Like, c'mon. Yshtola Rhul said it's possible when I mentioned a lurker like Cheeky could be taking shots, and wasn't around to give her updated opinion when Cheeky died. I'm 100% sure Cheeky took all shots, and Rhul would have agreed once the flip came.

[popsofctown]

I'm 100% sure Cheeky took all four shots, I think the timing of the fourth shot was Cheeky timing the shot such that it would protect her partner.

[Auro]

I'm also 100% that it was simply Cheeky's style to take a shot when she was confident. Woodchuck shot implies that.

If Cheeky's fourth shot was trying to protect her partner... I was gladiating you when she took it

[Auro]

Feel free to explain her rationale for the Woodchuck shot, I'll wait.

[Klick]

If CSF was taking yolo shots (as in, while not anywhere near lynch range) why hasn't she taken one now with a few people pushing her?

Probably because she's been pushed for a whole 7 hours? lol
I don't think there's even been a votecount since pops put the first vote on CSF.

[popsofctown]

I interpreted it as being more likely to be related to activity that was in the earlier part of the window of Hectic's apparent threadvisits. I don't think the gladiate makes sense because the victor of the gladiate seemed unclear to me at that point, and it was also even less proximal to new information about whether woodchuck might be mason

[Klick]

I think I struggle to read overly logical players. I had the same problem with Luca Blight.
But then I sensed an inkling of emotion in your questioning of me about Chemist and I'm trying to figure out what that implies.

PEdit: this post is about Auro