Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[popsofctown]

I am befuddled

[Dannflor]

VC 1.8.HELL

Just Like Fire

[3] Amrun : implosion, Looker, popsofctown [2] Team STRQ : Amrun, Elmo Teh AzN [2] popsofctown : Team STRQ, Wooper [1] Elmo Teh AzN : Ame [1] Not Voting : Something_Smart With 9 in limbo, it takes 5 votes to judge. The Hell Phase I deadline is in : (expired on 2020-03-05 16:59:39) Mod Notes : ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀     ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀                             ⠀

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[popsofctown]

If there would be bias to be had, that's not the direction of bias I'd expect from a played who dislikes my font and lost their last game to me due to getting hardguiltied from one of the setup's excessively plentiful TPR's

[popsofctown]

I am sorry I stole that pagetop from you Dannflor-kun I didn't know it was a pagetop

[popsofctown]

You can delete post 600 if you want, post 600 is "I am befuddled"

[Team STRQ]

Ame, what does looker's scum game look like exactly?

-Summer

[Something_Smart]

I kinda think pops is towny and wooper is scummy now :/

[Something_Smart]

Wanna see Ame's catchup though because that Looker read smells like a TMI.

[Something_Smart]

It's not that I will hard obstruct the Amrun lynch but I still don't really understand it at all.

[Ame]

Wanna see Ame's catchup though because that Looker read smells like a TMI.

You're probably not wrong! I literally town red her from RVS. The I isn't from being scum though.

Everyone should provide exactly their top 3 town reads (no more, no less) and exactly 2 strongest scum reads.

More later!

[Amrun]

Amrun just hasn't said anything really interesting in the past while. Like, 503 has plenty of words in it but no words that I really care about. It's a very personal read of Wooper that I can't really come around to easily, and it just feels like... doing stuff. It doesn't really make me want to townread her. It's like, I'm not really getting the sense from her ISO that she's going through posts in the thread and seeing things that pique her interest that she wants to delve into; it feels like she's looking at the thread to find the things she has to deal with, dealing with those things, and then not really doing much else.

Case in point:

I've just dropped another bunch of reads you're welcome to engage with.

Wooper said this and you told him to cut the bullshit... like, sure if you feel that way, but you're BOTH just talking past each other.

So what do you think this says about their alignments?

I've said I think they're both town, Wooper more strongly. I don't think the talking past each other necessarily says much about their alignments on its own, though it certainly is something that can be characteristic of TvT as some have pointed out.

Why ask me this? Do you think I'm going to say that I think it makes one or both of them scum? From what I can tell, the two of them are your two biggest scumreads right now (give you're voting STRQ and you're devoting most of your words against Wooper), so surely you have some perspective on them being at each others' throats? The fact that you ask me this instead of like, giving your own opinions in this case, just kind of feels like you're engaging to engage rather than on the things that should be most pertinent given the view of the gamestate that you have here as town. Unless I've missed something.

You have missed something. I always, always sort by asking questions. My reasonings for a particular question might not make sense to other people, but it usually makes sense to me.

In this case, saying something like this was a little confusing to me because I don’t consider this to be common from TvT, which didn’t align with your expressed reads. I was curious why you weren’t re-evaluating your reads given you felt they were talking over one another.

You seem fine with the idea that this is TvT, which is a satisfying enough answer I guess. I don’t agree though; I think there is a scum there.

I can't do this anymore.

Vote: Team STRQ

At this point No.

Is this a policy vote, or do you think the hydra is scum?

This is also, like, a little weird of a question to ask someone who just voted for the same person as you. At least a little, or at least it's not the kind of thing I can ever remember thinking when seeing someone vote with me. Also kind of feels like engaging to engage at that.

Wouldn’t you want to know if someone honestly thinks X is scum as opposed to policy voting? I really don’t understand this objection.

I’m trying my best to engage MYSELF with the game I’m having a hard time getting into. Why are you discouraging that?

[Amrun]

Those posts are as far as I got, busy at work

[Something_Smart]

Everyone should provide exactly their top 3 town reads (no more, no less) and exactly 2 strongest scum reads.

Implosion, Elmo, Looker.

Wooper, Ame.

I don't feel strongly about either scumread, before I get any demands for explanation.

[Ame]

Optimal Gameplay

So long as no scum exist in heaven, we should

not

send consensus town reads to heaven. There are three reasons for this. First, it's better to have strong towny voices here in purgatory because the proportion of town to scum is so small. We should aim to establish a strong town core and keep them around as long as possible. Second, if a judgment day occurs, having obvtownies in purgatory will increase the chance that heaven-dwellers will make the correct call. Third, we should use the heaven phase to provide

informative

flips. So as long as there is no scum in heaven, we should use it to flip the harder to read slots that aren't necessarily being scum read.

So my thinking is this, near the end of each phase, we tally the top town reads and top scum reads. During hell phases, we flip between scum reads; during the heaven phases, we flip middle reads; and we keep obvtownies in purgatory on reserve. Again, this is so long as there is

no scum

in heaven. If we do get a heaven scum flip, then we start sending our obvtownie reserves.

[implosion]

Town: Elmo, Wooper, Looker. Scum: Amrun, Ame.

[implosion]

Hard-ish disagree and also post 613 w/ like one hot minute left in day one is an interesting time to discuss optimal strategy.

If we mess up and send one scum to heaven, then the odds of us winning become much, *much* lower.

[Something_Smart]

Do they?

Odds are that's someone we wouldn't have sent to hell anytime soon, and now we have their flip and can reevaluate based on it rather than allowing them to continue to affect the game.

[Ame]

Well we're in a scum lynch phase so we will have time to discuss it next phase.

And no, this is the mathematically correct strategy I think.

More later. I'm still not caught up, but I should be later today.

[implosion]

The natural people to send to heaven are those that have some combination of the qualities:

-consensus townread
-if that consensus townread is wrong, people that it's better to know now than later
-if not consensus townread, someone that we need a flip for
-we trust their reads
-they aren't someone we want to keep around to contribute to the thread more
-we think they'll be able to work with other townies in heaven

etc. It's not one thing, it's a combination of a lot of qualities.

[implosion]

Actually it could depend on if we hit scum today. If we hit hit town today then it's less harmful to send scum to heaven; if we hit scum today we DEFINITELY want to send town to heaven, because we won't be hitting a judgment day any time soon and we want as many scum left as possible to send to hell.

[popsofctown]

Hard-ish disagree and also post 613 w/ like one hot minute left in day one is an interesting time to discuss optimal strategy.

If we mess up and send one scum to heaven, then the odds of us winning become much, *much* lower.

Ame said yesterday he hadn't read the entire thread and she probably still hasn't finished reading the thread at the pace he was reporting. So she is probably just coming to think about the setup dynamics as he reaches a point in a readthrough where she feels able to sort and push these actual heaven/hell decisions, which to me seems more organic than jamming it in the replace-in post. I think it's slightly town-indicative for him, though it's watered down by how she could come up with his first mislynch-idea-push and start thinking about setup in a similar way.

[popsofctown]

What if I avoid my theory disagreements with implo about who to send to heaven by sending implo to heaven

[Wooper]

Do you think it's scum-indicative that I stopped vanity wagoning Wooper?

I think it was kind of a necessity at that point - was it intended to look a cerraron way?

[Wooper]

@Wooper: What about Amrun, Team STRQ, Something_Smart?

What about what about them

[Wooper]

The natural people to send to heaven are those that have some combination of the qualities:

-consensus townread

-if that consensus townread is wrong, people that it's better to know now than later

-if not consensus townread, someone that we need a flip for
-we trust their reads
-they aren't someone we want to keep around to contribute to the thread more
-we think they'll be able to work with other townies in heaven

etc. It's not one thing, it's a combination of a lot of qualities.