Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[Dannflor]

VC 1.9.HELL

Road to Hell

[2] Amrun : implosion, Looker [2] popsofctown : Team STRQ, Wooper [2] Wooper : Amrun, popsofctown [1] Team STRQ : Elmo Teh AzN [1] Elmo Teh AzN : Ame [1] Not Voting : Something_Smart With 9 in limbo, it takes 5 votes to judge. The Hell Phase I deadline is in : (expired on 2020-03-05 16:59:39) Mod Notes : ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀     ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀                             ⠀

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[Something_Smart]

It was far from clear that the only quality that might make the greeting tell invalid was being a newbie.

What's another such quality, then? And don't say "being town", since the greeting tell never claimed to be 100% accurate and so that wouldn't justify writing it off.

[popsofctown]

[1] Not Voting

:

Something_Smart

The Hell Phase I deadline is in

:

(expired on 2020-03-05 16:59:39)

Hardread : Something_Smart's account has a sufficiently secure password and hasn't let other people proxy play this game

You can BoP me on this read, but if you do, please do it quickly before pops wakes up and sees this post and uses the email password reset because I wanna selfhammer

[popsofctown]

It was far from clear that the only quality that might make the greeting tell invalid was being a newbie.

What's another such quality, then? And don't say "being town", since the greeting tell never claimed to be 100% accurate and so that wouldn't justify writing it off.

Once you've opened up the idea that you can make up reasons it doesn't apply, you'd expect it'd be likely for Homura to decide some aspect of herself is disqualifying, like that she likes being friendly or the super obvious and actual one, that her context for doing it right after greeting tell was discussed destroys everything about the tell, like Amrun pointed out.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Elmo, do you enjoy playing town or scum more?

Eh I don't have a preference one way or the other. I also apologize I've been sleeping a hangover away today so Ill catch up in a bit

[Looker]

I was expecting a counteroffensive from Amrun

What does this mean? Why do you think this hasn’t happened? What do you think it means about my alignment? Do you care that I’m voting team strq?

It was another lame BoP. I expected you to work a miracle. I'm not sure what a resigned Amrun looks like or implies. Team STRQ is of high interest to me, but I don't know what to do. I have to see what my commitment gets me.

i am somewhat bored x:

Talk to Team STRQ - since it's four of them, they should be four times as active.

---

• I instinctively trust certain players because I like their personalities; however, this is counterproductive bias

[Wooper]

VOTE: Ame
osieorb is my fav tho

[Wooper]

pops falls under pressure
pops starts playing


my wagon makes me think my reads are more likely accurate than not lol like ame/amrun/pops is 2/3

[popsofctown]

S_S changed his avatar to the pokemon I used for 60% of my battles when I played through Pearl instead of ugly telephone poles with no telephone lines in an orange landscape after seeing my avatar based voting with respect to Wooper and this blatant unabashed pocketing effort shall not stand

[Ame]

VOTE: Ame
osieorb is my fav tho

aww we could have been something special </3

What is rhino? I figure it's a typo, but don't know what word to replace

[Wooper]

VOTE: Ame
osieorb is my fav tho

aww we could have been something special </3

What is rhino? I figure it's a typo, but don't know what word to replace

rhino? not sure sorry, context?

[Ame]

I rhino me/amrun/homura as an exact solve is like, really quiet silly at surface level

[popsofctown]

He asked you like a page ago and linked to where you used the term, you should go back and click on it to validate her thoroughness
pedit: don't care I'm doubling down, I only use the fidget with the BBcode for linking posts when it will rescue my own life or that of a loved one, that link should not go unused

[Ame]

lmao <3<3

[popsofctown]

My difficulty with this game is not reading posts and not finding anything alignment indicative about them it's finding lots of possibly alignment indicative things often pointing in different directions on the same player and not being sure how to weight them and I would appreciate input from other players on where I might be onto something and where I'm a crackpot

I worry Looker townreading both Wooper and I but not naturally having something spicy to say about this spicy take might be scum indicative

[Ame]

Looker

I feel even stronger that Looker is obvtown and a number of her thoughts are consistent with mine (My PoE is currently S_S > Amrun > Wooper/Implosion. The last two more null, I've been going back and forth).

I don't think that game counted. AaronFrost claimed scum D1 and fucked us.

Nah it's based on your pre-slip play.

Ame, what does looker's scum game look like exactly?

-Summer

Also please talk to me about town!looker
I'm really not reverent towards meta etc. at all btw so you saying 'looker doesn't look like scum!looker" matters about as much as saying "wooper's nose is blue"

Spoiler: Ame's Philosophy. Not necessarily pertinent, skip if you hate long beautifully poised arguments.

 
I'm a heavily data (especially meta) based player. To me, there are only two ways to consistently accurately identify alignments: (1) force players into a situation where they must act spontaneously, novelly, or in their own self-interest; or (2) come to understand them. Without either of these, all reads are really just conjecture, almost no better than voting randomly. The majority of #1 happens near the end of each phase and near the end of the game (though I do try to add novelty and disruption into the mix whenever I can). And so, much of the game ought to rely on #2.

WE ARE ALL SO DIFFERENT. We think that other humans think and perceive things the same way as ourselves, but it's far from the truth! And that's the greatest barrier to empathy, the fact that we are all black boxes that assume that all the other black boxes ought to perceive, think, react, and behave in the same manner as we do. Like just look at the variation in mental imagery! From pops who can freaking play a cinema in her head to S_S who can perhaps barely hold an object. This difference alone is sure to cause these two to perceive and respond to the world in completely different manners.

Anyway, what does this have to do with meta? The reason why reads are virtually random when one fails to come to understand a person is that we all have our idiosyncrasies—ways of thinking, reacting, behaving. We are all black boxes and we cannot determine whether action A makes player P scummy without first coming to understand the peculiarities (and perhaps inner workings) of that black box. For example, how did you respond to my impression of Elmo's reactivity? With meta. My impression was based on a recent experience where scum reacted to an RVS joke in a similar manner, but based on the rest of Elmo's play it is more indicative of a personality feature.

Meta is a hard source of data which can be used to unearth subtle variations and nuances in a person's play. I don't use meta as a superficial "P is playing differently here, therefore they are a different alignment." It's more subtle than that. There are certain nuances in a person's play that they are likely not aware of until they are made aware. And those can be taken advantage of until they

are

made aware (after which they are no longer valuable). Here is an example.

Lol I know you didn't ask for any of this and hate walls (?) but it's my philosophy and I get excited talking about it. And people are always hating on meta when it's one of

the most

valuable tools of the game. Onto Looker...

pops has it exactly right here:

Looker doesn't have a great scumrange IMO sorry to shade you Looker but it's relevant to the game. He struggled to produce anything that looked townesque at all last I played with him.

In addition to what I outlined above, I also just like to understand people on a deep level in general, which is probably why I enjoy this game so much. When someone has an interesting personality that catches my eye, I kind of get obsessed and dive deep into their meta until I feel I can melt into their mind. Looker just happens to be one of those people. In the game we played (Mini Normal 2115) she was mostly null read by the entire cast except Insomnia. After her flip, I realized Insomnia's read probably came from some experiential insight which led me to dive into her meta. I think there are three key differences between town and scum Looker that she is (probably) not aware of:

• 1. She seems to have a hard time engaging as scum, not in terms of post count, but in terms of how she interacts with people. I often make an interaction chart for the first 6 pages ranking the number and degree of all the interactions between players. This is scum Looker:
  
  
  (left to right are those she's non-superficially interacted with (virtually blank), top to bottom are those who have interacted with her (virtually blank)
  
  I haven't yet gone through the interactions here, but Looker's trend is already significantly different:
  Spoiler:

  Looker I scumlean - he seems more disengaged than usual.

  I have played with Looker before. He marches to the beat of his own drummer.

  That's very sweet of you to try to remember me.

  Looker come on man. 4 posts in 4ish pages and you have said. Not much if anything at all... What's going on

  Why didin't you notice Phi Kappa Phi?

  this is uh, probably a townpost?

  Don't waste your time; it's NAI. I do it as either town or scum because I hate lurky players.
  

  ---

  • @Homura:
    You
    diverted onto PKP
    • Also, I've played mafia before, and I know how opportunism works (case in point, your vote); however, I will be stealing "refuge in audacity" as a damning concept from now on, so thank you

  VOTE: Elmo Teh Azn Let's destroy Amrun's spirits

  VOTE: Amrun.
  Why you gotta be scum in my games?

  I don't think you two are the same alignment. I want to find the scum(s) in you, Amrun, and implosion.

  Looker always thinks I’m scum so like ... this seems on par for town looker actually.

  To be fair, you typically are.

  So if there's scum in one of the three who do you think it is. Amrun?

  I think it's either you or Amrun.

  Except for Elmo. I’ve been thinking about this and I think it’s just outside of Elmo’s scumrange to do this. He’s town.

  How do you make the determination of someone else's scumrange?

  Wooper is absolutely terrible. He's pretty much the worst

  So snuggly

  Looker/Homura

  need to weigh in more because they've been mentioned more than they have contributed.

  Then stop mentioning me, hyperposter.
  

  ---

  • First of all, fair warning: I hate this. I hate the funky colors, the highlights, the not knowing who's saying what in the hydra. I don't think I've read a single post of popsofctown's. It's too difficult for me. And the hydra's all over the place - it's strictly VCA for me regarding that slot.
    
  • @implosion: They're ongoing games, but you can just search my topics.
    
  • @Wooper: It's a gamble.
    
  • @pops: I take it back; I read post 166, and thank you.

  If we're doing reads, I have SCUM {amrun / elmo | implosion | Something_Smart | Team STRQ} TOWN.

Compare her first 10 posts in her scum game here:

Spoiler: Mini Normal 2115

I'm a slave to my dependency on others. Am I actually going to finish a game with Wimpy this time? I'm busy.

I'm a sad person trying not to be quite so sad

Theophrastus Bombastus

That's too complicated. How about Van? Van Hohenheim...

Everyone looks exactly the same; how can you make heads or tails out of them?

I'm almost ready; I promise. Do I go after the Pokemon or the demon slayer? These games take too long to start. The Mad Prince or the cute guy with the glasses...? Post restrictions? No...

Okay, I think I'm here now. First, the simple approach.

@Ame / JTheophrastus Bartholomew / Luca Blight / Egix96 / profii:

Who among you is town? I don't really expect any of you to know, but it's good for managing consistency in the future. I personally have no idea.

VOTE: Luca Blight Votes keep the game moving

Permanent townread on the guy with the glasses - you make me feel comfortable. Beauty is really reassuring.

So many players. Reading.

I picked the names based off the avatars I could remember. I'm typically capable of keeping all of this stuff in my head.

VOTE: Ame Did you not like my question?

Her only interaction was asking a broad valueless question and her reaction to me not responding to it.

This is also in line with her first 10 posts in the scum game pops linked:

Spoiler: Mini Normal 2113

It's late. I'll talk to you guys tomorrow. Love you!

UTC - 5

VOTE: rb

Can’t believe u guys stole the pagetop again smh

Do you not like editing them into the pagetop after the fact?

I really like the name Frank.

Nah, I always feel like if I lost the pagetop then I lost it fair and square, spoils to the victor

That's incredibly sweet and humble.

Scum team is rb and Frank

At least you read it - I skipped it to come back to when I'm dreadfully bored.

rb because he called me a girl and Frank because his name is beautiful. PenguinPower because his name is green. You're not better than the rest of us, Penguin.

Merry Christmas, rb. And the rest of you all.

I agree to get more serious after the next vote count. It's interesting to watch how cases are formed out of nothingness on Day 1. It's incredibly deductive and entertaining.

Also, BBmolia, did you get a new avatar? I could've sworn you and Kerset had the same one.

Now compare them to her first 10 posts in her town games here and here (I can't quote them ).

• 2. Her fluff to content ratio is significantly higher in her scum games. She's a joker all around, but in town games, it's intermixed with actual solving, whereas in her scum games she pretty much just sits on her arse (again, compare the first 10 posts).
  
  3. Her town games show a lack of image concern. This is the main thing that stood out to me in 2115 where Looker constantly voiced where she was at in her process and
  why
  she wasn't doing X. This is in stark contrast to her recklessness here. Her whole demeanor is just different.

I spent too much time on this but hopefully, it's useful. I need to sleep soon and then it's my busy day. I'm going to look through the top wagons before I do and see where I want to go.

[Ame]

Taking this post # just to post the devil emoji

[Ame]

It is always someone else's fault you're getting scum read. I also tend to rely on town reads from two of the scummiest players in the game to defend me.

I'm not defending you. Honestly I'd rather you sent to hell.
But your obv town.

Why call your reads out? To what create more fluff? You consider me scum your vote is on me correct?
And I'm not blaming anyone for thinking I'm scum. At this point I'd rather have the votes on me to show town can do something.

This is the post that changed my opinion on

osie

Elmo btw. I think this only comes from scum if Stark is buddy.

[popsofctown]

wow

I kinda wanna heaven Looker then heaven Ame if green

btw I'm from 08 and love walls

btw you can use a combination of the PM button and copy-paste to get quotes from locked threads if you are sober enough to not accidentally hit send and PM the person

did you play mafia using the internet before December 5th, 2019, Ame?

[/spoiler]

[Ame]

omg thank you! And yes I've also been playing since around '08! (I'm new to mafiascum though)

[popsofctown]

I'm both glad and sorry cause I wish you playing at the best community
Please stay here

[Ame]

I definitely am, I can't believe what I've been missing!

@pops @amrun @all would you be willing to go S_S? I feel like wooper is a better heaven flip via the strategy I mentioned. S_S has done seriously nothing. This is my top choice, but enough people have scum read or had amrun on the periphery that I think she's also solid choice. I need to sleep now, but I should be on a few hours before the deadline to maneuver my vote where needed.

(btw I spent at least a minute looking for one of S_S's posts to iso, having forgotten he changed his avatar smh)

[Wooper]

I rhino me/amrun/homura as an exact solve is like, really quiet silly at surface level

think!

[popsofctown]

He's in the territory of what I might hammer. I would prefer more dayphases to learn more about him but I feel that way about everyone who isn't a water pokemon
I'm not sure how viable his lynch is in terms of going to sleep with that as your vote.

[Wooper]

I kinda wanna heaven Looker then heaven Ame if green

this is a mood

VOTE: Amrun #yolo I'm not gonna have time to do this ~properly~ but I don't townread Amrun at all and irl is coming first for me for a while