Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

[Atarashi Hajimari]

YOINK 'dat top post.

<3 you mod

[clidd]

Why do you say 72off is town? There really hasn't been too much from his slot and what there has been I haven't been blown away by.

Impressions, it is not the first game I play with him.

[clidd]

And my actual read isn't the same as my read on Wilky last game, keep it in mind.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

And my actual read isn't the same as my read on Wilky last game, keep it in mind.

Not sure what you mean by this.

[clidd]

I have more confidence in my read this time.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I appreciate how you put yourself in a position to criticize others, but you don't take a position to help the game.

Quite the opposite I just want to hear more from other people. I'd like to see more votes for a VCA and other things. Useful for later in the game. Just the way this games been playing out feels like the meta is 100% different from the last time I played here is all. Note I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

Also why the hell was Lotus' slot just emphasizing the setup? Now that I think about it.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

UVC:

clidd (1/5): Elmo TeH AzN
Iconeum (1/5): Doobietime
EqsyLootz (1/5): Atarashi Hajimari
Elmo TeH AzN (1/5): WizenedWalrus
WizenedWalrus (1/5): 72offsuit

[Atarashi Hajimari]

Okay I'm super bored. I'mma start just randomly ISOing people and post what I find.

[clidd]

Lel, your partner was good, 72offsuit.

Mafia PT:

Spoiler:

Shoot, Clidd suspects you. He might have tracked you, in which case he knows that you are either a PR or scum. Of all of the "tests" that he gave me, don't you find it odd that his focus would be on my thoughts on your slots replace outs? In his scenario I know that he's a PR, and he's trying to see if based on that whether I think that means your slot is more likely to be PR or scum. There's a reason why he asked that.

Clidd needs to be taken out of the game ASAP.... if you start a wagon on George I will quickhammer him if he gets up to L-1. Clidd is the single greatest threat to both of us. If he did track you and outs that, then your slot would become confirmed scum after both Clidd and Natsu have died.

If we can pull off a George lynch today, then we kill Clidd on night two. Obviously, I will be lynched on day three if I end up quickhammering, but so be it. Then on night three you kill Natsu, assuming we are right about him being TFN. Then on the day four the final three would be {you, Spy, Alora}, and I think that you would have a really good shot at getting Spy to vote for Alora.

If we end up going that route, then I can help you to make a strong case as to why Alora and I are scum together after I flip red. And the only person that you would need to convince of this would be Spy.

Spoiler:

I'm fairly certain that Clidd is going to be deciding who gets lynched today. If he pushes one of us, then whichever one of us that he doesn't push has to bus the other. Hopefully he is genuinely suspicious of Spy; there might be a chance that he ends up leading a push on Spy.

But if he leads a push on one of us and the other fights it, then whichever one of us survives will look bad on day three. If one of us does get run up to L-1, then you or I could fakeclaim jailkeeper. At the very least that might force a massclaim, so we can be 100% certain of the PR situation (even though I think that at this point that we are 99% certain on the PR situation).

But basically, I don't think that either of us can try to take control of the gamestate until Clidd is taken out.

[clidd]

Right now, I lost a game to Mr.72offsuit, I will have to reevaluate my TL analysis on him.

[clidd]

Game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1075

I will put he as SL, until I engage with him again.

[clidd]

I have more confidence in my read this time.

I still believe my initial impressions about him are valid, but I am deeply uncomfortable by this recent defeat. I need to be absolutely sure that I am on the right track.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

clidd's ISO: Overall, TL but I'll be revisiting a few posts later to see if it changes.

As a forewarning, this gets super stream-of-consciousness/ramble-y. You have been warned.

Spoiler:

Post #88 (linked here):

This feels strange thinking about it now. The other game I've played with clidd he took a very active role in the game. Clidd was also town in this other game. I should probably be more suspicious of him than I am right now.


Post #89 (linked here)

I'm not sure I understand what he means by saying that the interaction was done with a 'good intention', but I agree that post #14 looks pretty towny. I'm not a fan of #52, but it was saying why I'm scum so I'm probably kinda biased. Although I suppose if I put my own knee-jerk 'he's wrong' reaction aside, there seems to be a genuine desire there to sort the game (though I'm not sure what to make of the overconfident snippet at the end).


Post #96 (linked here)

I'm a fan of 90% of this post. I don't necessarily agree that all first time scum are going to be more cautious/less loose, and even less so that most "first time" players on this site are legitimately playing their first game of mafia ever (so first time scum on this site may not actually be first time scum period), but this point is super nitpicky and is probably actually correct as often as it's not.


Post #113 (linked here)

This post is saying that I'm town. Ergo, it is 100% correct. More to the point, he's putting a lot more thought into my RVS vote than I did lol... I voted clidd because he was the only person I recognized. Also I'm pretty sure he only hard tunneled onto one person (Homura), but I could be misremembering the game wrong (I've slept since posting there, and I lost a lot of interest in the game once the mass-replacements took place).


Post #114 (linked here)

I've never been a fan of how dismissive you can be. Kinda comes off like you being an asshole. And I feel like I've said that about you before. This comment can also apply to Post #116 (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11640894), which wasn't really called for.


Post #121 (linked here)

Again, agree with 90% of this post. In terms of VTs bluffing as PRs, I think being notorious is probably a disadvantage more often than it's an advantage, but this is super nitpicky.


I'm skipping over most of the mason-debacle posts because those have been gone over pretty well by this point and I don't see much point to rehashing it out right now.


Post #317 (linked here)

Swap Elmo and 72offsuit and his reads here mirror mine.


Post #388 (linked here)

On one hand, I don't think scum puts this much effort into a "short summary" of a read on someone. On the other hand, I've been spending about an hour trying to dissect exactly what he's saying through his $10 words and coming up blank, so it feels like he's trying to make it look like he's saying a lot of really insightful stuff without actually saying things that make much sense. I'll come back to this post at some point when I haven't been awake forever on extremely weak sleep.


Post #439 (linked here)

I've found a post that he put away the paint cans for. I feel accomplished.


Post #459 (linked here)

I feel like this post more often comes from a townie mindset than any other mindset. I'd feel pretty confident about this one.

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.11

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

Iconeum

(1): Doobietime

EqsyLootz

(1): Atarashi Hajimari

Elmo TeH AzN

(1): WizenedWalrus

WizenedWalrus

(1): 72offsuit

clidd

(1): Elmo TeH AzN

Not Voting

(4): clidd, Menalque, Iconeum, EqsyLootz

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-15 01:30:00).

Mod notes:

• Iconeum V/LA until Tuesday.
  
• Elmo TeH AzN V/LA until Tuesday/Wednesday.
  
• Menalque V/LA until Sunday.

[clidd]

clidd's ISO: Overall, TL but I'll be revisiting a few posts later to see if it changes.

As a forewarning, this gets super stream-of-consciousness/ramble-y. You have been warned.

Spoiler:

Post #88 (linked here):

This feels strange thinking about it now. The other game I've played with clidd he took a very active role in the game. Clidd was also town in this other game. I should probably be more suspicious of him than I am right now.


Post #89 (linked here)

I'm not sure I understand what he means by saying that the interaction was done with a 'good intention', but I agree that post #14 looks pretty towny. I'm not a fan of #52, but it was saying why I'm scum so I'm probably kinda biased. Although I suppose if I put my own knee-jerk 'he's wrong' reaction aside, there seems to be a genuine desire there to sort the game (though I'm not sure what to make of the overconfident snippet at the end).


Post #96 (linked here)

I'm a fan of 90% of this post. I don't necessarily agree that all first time scum are going to be more cautious/less loose, and even less so that most "first time" players on this site are legitimately playing their first game of mafia ever (so first time scum on this site may not actually be first time scum period), but this point is super nitpicky and is probably actually correct as often as it's not.


Post #113 (linked here)

This post is saying that I'm town. Ergo, it is 100% correct. More to the point, he's putting a lot more thought into my RVS vote than I did lol... I voted clidd because he was the only person I recognized. Also I'm pretty sure he only hard tunneled onto one person (Homura), but I could be misremembering the game wrong (I've slept since posting there, and I lost a lot of interest in the game once the mass-replacements took place).


Post #114 (linked here)

I've never been a fan of how dismissive you can be. Kinda comes off like you being an asshole. And I feel like I've said that about you before. This comment can also apply to Post #116 (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11640894), which wasn't really called for.


Post #121 (linked here)

Again, agree with 90% of this post. In terms of VTs bluffing as PRs, I think being notorious is probably a disadvantage more often than it's an advantage, but this is super nitpicky.


I'm skipping over most of the mason-debacle posts because those have been gone over pretty well by this point and I don't see much point to rehashing it out right now.


Post #317 (linked here)

Swap Elmo and 72offsuit and his reads here mirror mine.


Post #388 (linked here)

On one hand, I don't think scum puts this much effort into a "short summary" of a read on someone. On the other hand, I've been spending about an hour trying to dissect exactly what he's saying through his $10 words and coming up blank, so it feels like he's trying to make it look like he's saying a lot of really insightful stuff without actually saying things that make much sense. I'll come back to this post at some point when I haven't been awake forever on extremely weak sleep.


Post #439 (linked here)

I've found a post that he put away the paint cans for. I feel accomplished.


Post #459 (linked here)

I feel like this post more often comes from a townie mindset than any other mindset. I'd feel pretty confident about this one.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

Elmo's ISO: This ISO is pretty bare-bones. I definitely want to see more content from this slot before I give any serious confidence behind a read here. Ultimately, TL though not by too much. There's a pretty even amounnt of stuff that I like and dislike.

Spoiler:

Post #110 (linked here)

I don't really like this post. I think the reasoning behind Ico's change in vote from me to Lotus was relatively clear given that Ico expressed doubt in lotus (Post #46 linked here), then asked me for why I SR'd Lotus (post #47 linked here), then changed vote target after I gave my reasoning (post #49 linked here). It follows up with her being kinda waver-y on the suspicion and deflecting off to Lotus and ultimately doesn't accomplish a whole lot.


Post #111 (linked here)

Even though I disliked the post from her immediately before this one, I really like this post. Some genuine desire to sort through the game and some analysis that I agree with in both the external logic and the internal mentality behind the thinking. Solid post.


Post #112 (linked here)

I also like this post, but not as much as the previous post. I disagree that there's nothing to gain from a townie fakeclaiming a PR, but I think the mentality behind her comment (avoiding creating unnecessary confusion within the town) comes from a townie mindset.


Post #117 (linked here)

I think the frustration here is probably townie-based given that it looks extremely similar to the frustration I felt dealing with clidd in my previous game with him.


Post #124 (linked here)

This post just feels...out of place. It reads like one long, rambling apology for wanting clarification? that's followed up with some relatively questionable logic in not wanting to work on solving the game on D1? It feels too long to be genuine but the line-by-line seems sincere. I really don't know what to do with this post.


Post #142 (linked here)

I'm a fan of this post explicitly and exclusively because she agreed with something I said and said that I've looked town. That is all.


Post #158 (linked here)

I've been staring at this post for about 20 minutes trying to figure out what I think about it. Something about it bugs me but I can't put my finger on it. I'll definitely revisit this post later.


Post #192 (linked here)

I really don't like this post. Doesn't really describe anything bad about what Mena's posts are, but seems to toss all of his posts into the bad bin. The vote seems super reactionary. The odd part that sticks out to me about this post is the last line thay say "The only gain to claim is protect the actual masons", which reads like a reason to think that Mena is town, which isn't what Elmo thinks in this post.


Post #441 (linked here)

This post is weird. I like the first half of it and think it's a good verablization of some of the latent suspicions I have regarding clidd (i.e. he's behaving really kind of differently compared to the last game I played with him). I'm not a fan of the second half, though. It seems like a bit of an overreaction, and it doesn't really accurately describe how clidd seems to be playing, either. It's super similar in nature to her Mena vote, though, so at least there's some kind of consistency to the mentality behind her casting votes? I'm not sure what to do with that info, though.

[Datisi]

Prodding WizenedWalrus. This is their first prod.

[72offsuit]

Lel, your partner was good, 72offsuit.

Mafia PT:

Spoiler:

Shoot, Clidd suspects you. He might have tracked you, in which case he knows that you are either a PR or scum. Of all of the "tests" that he gave me, don't you find it odd that his focus would be on my thoughts on your slots replace outs? In his scenario I know that he's a PR, and he's trying to see if based on that whether I think that means your slot is more likely to be PR or scum. There's a reason why he asked that.

Clidd needs to be taken out of the game ASAP.... if you start a wagon on George I will quickhammer him if he gets up to L-1. Clidd is the single greatest threat to both of us. If he did track you and outs that, then your slot would become confirmed scum after both Clidd and Natsu have died.

If we can pull off a George lynch today, then we kill Clidd on night two. Obviously, I will be lynched on day three if I end up quickhammering, but so be it. Then on night three you kill Natsu, assuming we are right about him being TFN. Then on the day four the final three would be {you, Spy, Alora}, and I think that you would have a really good shot at getting Spy to vote for Alora.

If we end up going that route, then I can help you to make a strong case as to why Alora and I are scum together after I flip red. And the only person that you would need to convince of this would be Spy.

Spoiler:

I'm fairly certain that Clidd is going to be deciding who gets lynched today. If he pushes one of us, then whichever one of us that he doesn't push has to bus the other. Hopefully he is genuinely suspicious of Spy; there might be a chance that he ends up leading a push on Spy.

But if he leads a push on one of us and the other fights it, then whichever one of us survives will look bad on day three. If one of us does get run up to L-1, then you or I could fakeclaim jailkeeper. At the very least that might force a massclaim, so we can be 100% certain of the PR situation (even though I think that at this point that we are 99% certain on the PR situation).

But basically, I don't think that either of us can try to take control of the gamestate until Clidd is taken out.

Ye he was good, very helpful.

[72offsuit]

I have more confidence in my read this time.

I still believe my initial impressions about him are valid, but I am deeply uncomfortable by this recent defeat. I need to be absolutely sure that I am on the right track.

I think you should focus more on this present game than on meta. I think i faked meta decently well last time.
Your read is good this time;)

[72offsuit]

I'm having a hard time classifying your reaction. I saw similar behavior in two other games, and both came from the red alignment, but that would contradict the lines of honesty I felt in your text.

Forget what I said about "my presence", it's just my normal tone.

The question is:

why do you show so much resistance to the simple conclusion that Menalque is a mason and is trying to solve the game ? I just need to understand this point correctly to start thinking about it.

Hey Clidd, can you post a link to one of the games you had with elmo that you are referring to here in this post?

[72offsuit]

Honestly I'm not getting a ton of scumvibes from anything major so far, I thought the push on Atarashi was overall worth probing but I don't think Atarashi comes off as scummy in the follow up. 72offsuit came to the wagon a little late and I'm curious to hear their answer to my question but I also don't think they're particularly scummy either.

I'll
VOTE: Elmo the AzN

their RVS comment about me feels awkward considering they voted elsewhere, and it's not clear from 55 whether they're read the thread or not. I think townies are slightly more likely to say whether they have or haven't read anything.

Hm, missed this first time round. Have to agree with this read.
+ Scum points to Elmo here

[72offsuit]

1-for-1ing seems really bad right from the get-go.

This post is actually really bothering me. Just the wording of "seems really bad right now"

1 for 1 ing gives town a guaranteed mafia and is a bad move for mafia. Its great for town. So I don;t understand why Ata has framed it as a negative.

It gives the feeling of a scumslip. It feels like they are in a mafia-frame-of-mind.

[WizenedWalrus]

Prodding WizenedWalrus. This is their first prod.

Sorry for the unexpected absence yesterday. I thought I'd make it back in time to participate last night, but it didn't end up being the case.

I've skimmed through everything, will go back and read more thoroughly here in a bit. I haven't seen anything yet to change my current feelings:

lean bad: elmo, eqsy, doobie
no lean: 72offsuit, clidd
lean good: atarashi, melanque
probably good: Iconeum

[72offsuit]

Actually nah, I take that back.

Lol, oddly enough, this take-backsy feels townie.

+1 appetising apple

(shamelessly stolen off Hectic <3)

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Honestly I'm not getting a ton of scumvibes from anything major so far, I thought the push on Atarashi was overall worth probing but I don't think Atarashi comes off as scummy in the follow up. 72offsuit came to the wagon a little late and I'm curious to hear their answer to my question but I also don't think they're particularly scummy either.

I'll
VOTE: Elmo the AzN

their RVS comment about me feels awkward considering they voted elsewhere, and it's not clear from 55 whether they're read the thread or not. I think townies are slightly more likely to say whether they have or haven't read anything.

Hm, missed this first time round. Have to agree with this read.
+ Scum points to Elmo here

It was more a prod dodge then anything...