Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

[clidd]

I have some questions for you when I get home, 72offsuit.

[Doobietime]

At the risk of another awkward accusation- I've caught up, I'm just getting my first post together. Going to go through player by player today and thought I'd be able to make the first one quicker than I have.

[Doobietime]

Going to be jotting down my observations for each person today (maybe tomorrow too depending on how much time it takes), I don't have anybody boxed in to a particular alignment so I'm not sure if these are going to turn into full-on reads but I will indicate if I'm leaning a certain way.


Atarashi:

Spoiler:

I liked how you made your point over Ico's vote, it's how I would have gone about it. In the follow up I'm unsure about your response following Lotus' #37 though you weren't alone in seeing it totally different to me. From my point of view you were both doing the same innocent thing, kept debating it, and both kept making valid points which applied to both of you simultaneously.

I don't like 399&401 where you said 'you're more confident Eqsy's slot is scum' but 'you'd be down to lynch me OVER Eqsy'. I just don't follow. You say I'm difficult to read but that if Eqsy is the scum then I'm likely the second- so why wouldn't you lynch Eqsy first to get that extra bit of data to help read me?

462&465
You've put a lot of time and effort into those. I hope you'll continue to do the same thing throughout the game. Inspired me to do the same sort of thing (if these get tedious you only have yourself to blame). Detailed, mostly opinionated or at least exploring possibilities, lots of info for others to look back and cross reference you on. Does seem like a townie thing to do, but could easily be done by scum too. Still hoping for more though hah.

462 in relation to post 96 you talk about "first time" players but still have asked about others experience. Not something I would do if I didn't find the information to be reliable, but on the balance I think it does have potential to provide an insight.

#462 you miss out the mason posts saying that it has been talked about extensively, true, but the most you say is in post #300, I'd like to hear more about your decision regarding your unvote?
You touch on it again in #481 and to me this seems like you had more solid grounds for your Menalque vote than your one for Lotus/Eqsy. What made you decide it wasn't worth pursuing anymore if you thought getting rid of Menalque would wrap the game up either way?

[Doobietime]

Clidd

This one is lacking in observations, let alone guesses at alignment. I didn't realise I was drawing such a blank on you til I tried to write this.

Spoiler:

You said initially that you were going to be a support mostly. I was worried about you not really participating but you've been really quite active even if I'm totally null on you at the minute. Your take on 'low energy' is putting my assimilations to shame.

I can't find anything (nil, nada, sweet fa) where you've contradicted yourself, or been anything other than thorough when explaining yourself.

I'm struggling with the views based on playstyle and metas, in a game where anyone can be anyone and nobody has to follow a pattern, but if I had a better understanding of everybody here I'd probably end up incorporating that information into early stage narrowing down/PoE of my theories too. It's not your fault I can't relate to your position r.e having meta's in any game, nor that I don't have access to the knowledge you do in this particular game.

I don't even know what else to add about you from your ISO, but I have a question;

You said you'll L1 or hammer someone- who and why? Or are you happy to jump on any wagon just because the alignment reveal will be at least one sure thing to draw further conclusions from?

Side note- English is your third language? May I ask what the others are? At work I can almost always detect little things within a few sentences and figure it out for myself, but your English is faultless. Better than I see from some (most) native speakers of English!

[clidd]

Clidd

This one is lacking in observations, let alone guesses at alignment. I didn't realise I was drawing such a blank on you til I tried to write this.

Spoiler:

You said initially that you were going to be a support mostly. I was worried about you not really participating but you've been really quite active even if I'm totally null on you at the minute. Your take on 'low energy' is putting my assimilations to shame.

I can't find anything (nil, nada, sweet fa) where you've contradicted yourself, or been anything other than thorough when explaining yourself.

I'm struggling with the views based on playstyle and metas, in a game where anyone can be anyone and nobody has to follow a pattern, but if I had a better understanding of everybody here I'd probably end up incorporating that information into early stage narrowing down/PoE of my theories too. It's not your fault I can't relate to your position r.e having meta's in any game, nor that I don't have access to the knowledge you do in this particular game.

I don't even know what else to add about you from your ISO, but I have a question;

You said you'll L1 or hammer someone- who and why? Or are you happy to jump on any wagon just because the alignment reveal will be at least one sure thing to draw further conclusions from?

Side note- English is your third language? May I ask what the others are? At work I can almost always detect little things within a few sentences and figure it out for myself, but your English is faultless. Better than I see from some (most) native speakers of English!

1.

The player without a profile picture, or any of the others I mentioned in the list of '' uncertain ''. My vote in this game plays an important role in sealing the fate of a player (as I trust my own judgment). In a recent past game, I made the mistake of letting a random player take on that responsibility and it greatly hampered the game (as he was scum). By not voting early, I can better see how the votes are distributed, without the pretext of

'' I was sheeping clidd ''

.

2.

Yes, it is. My first language is spanish and the second is brazilian-portuguese. I have practice with English because of my work, as I have business with foreigners.

3.

My low effort does not mean that I will not participate effectively in the game. It just says that I won't be spending a lot of time on this match, as I have done on some in the past.

I have two examples of high effort here:

Micro 918:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81962

Newbie 1980:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81841

Deep meta-dive and complete reading of the setup mechanics are characteristic of my playstyle, but this is very time consuming and stressful to maintain. Especially when the game is not so difficult.

I believe that we will be able to solve this game in two or three days at most.

[clidd]

I'm going to prepare some questions for 72 now.

[Doobietime]

Elmo

Spoiler:

Less to sort through in your ISO, but you're my first lean, and it's towards town. Not sure why my leans are tending to be polar opposite to others? This is fun...

She's echoed my position (even at times when I haven't posted my position); being very open minded, baffled at why this game is going how it is, most of her posts are explorative and pending further information. I totally relate and believe the reluctance to try and peg people and rather reason out all scenarios is coming from a town mindset.

Even when your interpretations have totally differed from mine your approach has been reasonable and even relatable to me- no red flags thus far.

@clidd if you happen to wonder why this is similar to my post on you but I'm TR her, it's because her posts have a better balance of personal vs analytical. You come across as the overseer you claimed to be.

[EqsyLootz]

Alright I'm all caught up. Currently Im suspicious of Clidd and Elmo.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

Alright I'm all caught up. Currently Im suspicious of Clidd and Elmo.

You uhh...you wanna substantiate these reads?

[Atarashi Hajimari]

I don't like 399&401 where you said 'you're more confident Eqsy's slot is scum' but 'you'd be down to lynch me OVER Eqsy'. I just don't follow. You say I'm difficult to read but that if Eqsy is the scum then I'm likely the second- so why wouldn't you lynch Eqsy first to get that extra bit of data to help read me?

Because you're misinterpreting my post. I said I'd be down to lynch you over Eqsy

if it came down to it

. My preference is the other way around.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

#462 you miss out the mason posts saying that it has been talked about extensively, true, but the most you say is in post #300, I'd like to hear more about your decision regarding your unvote?

It's all that I specifically talked about it, yes. But theres a solid ~100 posts where people are only talking about it. If you cant figure out how you feel about it from that then I'm not sure what else I can add.

Also I'm pretty sure you've already asked me about my unvote but it's really not relevant to my wagon on eqsy so if you really wanna go over it again wait until tomorrow after he's eaten some rope.

[EqsyLootz]

Alright I'm all caught up. Currently Im suspicious of Clidd and Elmo.

You uhh...you wanna substantiate these reads?

Yes. I was going to add that. I'm making a "readlist" on them with ISOS.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

By not voting early, I can better see how the votes are distributed, without the pretext of '' I was sheeping clidd

Pretty awful reason not to vote. Its just as easy to say "I was sheeping clidd" as it is to say "I was sheeping clidd's analysis."

[Atarashi Hajimari]

Haven't you been making a reads list since you joined the game? You've only posted reads on me and doobie.

[EqsyLootz]

reads

Because I actually have a life. Family.. Friends. Sports. Hobbies. School etc. I can't spend all my time on this. I make them when I can.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

reads

Because I actually have a life. Family.. Friends. Sports. Hobbies. School etc. I can't spend all my time on this. I make them when I can.

Wow, the insulting response. Haven't heard that one before.

1. You have as many posts as doobie and almost 3x as many posts as Walrus.
2. I work two jobs (~60 hours/week) on top of other responsibilities.
3. This excuse only works if you communicate it ahead of time, like literally 1/3 of the rest of the players in this game (who still have all posted more than you).

If you just aren't interested in playing that's one thing. But don't insult other people when we're just trying to play the game.

[Doobietime]

1.

The player without a profile picture, or any of the others I mentioned in the list of '' uncertain ''. My vote in this game plays an important role in sealing the fate of a player (as I trust my own judgment). In a recent past game, I made the mistake of letting a random player take on that responsibility and it greatly hampered the game (as he was scum). By not voting early, I can better see how the votes are distributed, without the pretext of

'' I was sheeping clidd ''

.

Noted. You think it will help you form further opinions without data contamination. I get this, though I think it denies Town the opportunity to analyse

you

in that way. That's not a dig, more a lament on my part as I'm having trouble figuring people out enough already.

Is this game unusual insofar as you think we'll be able to solve it within a few days? What are the pivotal things which have happened to make you feel like a conclusion is already close?

[Doobietime]

Because you're misinterpreting my post. I said I'd be down to lynch you over Eqsy

if it came down to it

. My preference is the other way around.

Meaning if there was a wagon on me opposed to them? Okay, sorry, it read differently in my mind.

It's all that I specifically talked about it, yes. But theres a solid ~100 posts where people are only talking about it. If you cant figure out how you feel about it from that then I'm not sure what else I can add.

Also I'm pretty sure you've already asked me about my unvote but it's really not relevant to my wagon on eqsy so if you really wanna go over it again wait until tomorrow after he's eaten some rope.

I've asked about your unvote in relation to the Lotus/Eqsy situation, which you never answered clearly either. You did only say you lost interest (or something to that effect) in voting Menalque, and barely discussed the 'mason debacle' as you so rightly put it. I was just asking how

you

felt about it and how you came to moving

your

vote because it feels like you were mostly missing from the discussion. I'm asking because your response may or may not change my position on you, not because your position is going to influence mine.

[Atarashi Hajimari]

Doobie, I'm not talking about it today. If you wanna talk about it, wait until tomorrow.

[clidd]

@ 72offsuit

1.

I believe you don't like me at all, regardless of the alignment you are in. Why did you appear to be more open in post 344, considering that only our reads are similar? why are you being more receptive to me when in the other two games you were totally against my considerations?

2.

Why did you never consider the possibility of me being a scum?

3.

Why do you prefer Walrus over Eqsy as a primary option for lynch?

4.

What would your guess be if you had to speculate who the second mason is?

5.

If Menalque happened to be scum in a hypothetical scenario, who do you think would be most likely to be his partner?

6.

Imagine that you are scum in this game, what would be your D1 strategy?

7.

What would be the possible partner if Hajimari were a scum?

8.

Last question: consider that you are PR in this game, but suddenly you noticed that Menalque and Ico claimed mason. You are, of course, not a mason, but you chose not to reveal yourself to the public. You believe that hiding may be beneficial in a way. Considering that your strategy was not to hold the CC today, what would be your course of action tomorrow?

[72offsuit]

Spoiler:

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

I believe it is strange in a line of intrigue involving

Menalque

and

Ico

, that you see

Elmo

as the primary element of suspicion.

What is your position in relation to the

mason

case ?

I didn't actually say that she was my primary suspect, though she definitely is in the top three. I just feel that seeing who might actually vote for her instead of just voicing suspicions might provide some information.

As for the mason claims, it's a very weird scenario. Seems a pretty extreme thing for a baddie to come out of nowhere with a mason claim early on day 1. I guess there's a

chance

that perhaps Menalque is bold enough to try something crazy with the prepared defense "I'd never do that as a baddie, it's too crazy". I guess. Anything's possible in werewolf/mafia. He's already recanted, and now says he's just a VT trying unorthodox measures. As for Ico, him being bad seems ever more improbable to me -- him being a real mason appears to be the reason he reacted so strongly to Menalque's ruse. I find it hard to believe that a baddie or vanilla townie would react so strongly to a day 1 mason claim, so I'm also a bit suspicious of Doobie & Lotus who've left their vote on Ico even after the claim.

I fully agree with your position on the case about Ico's reaction to the claim. This fits perfectly with the situation which

town!Ico

finds herself threatened by an imposter in her role.

I'd say Walrus is stating the obvious here. NAI post.

Both !townWalrus and !scumWalrus would post this

Hum, ok. It does not change my agreement with him.

I agree with him too. Just saying, its stating the obvious, it sounded like you thought it was a pro-town post, and I'm just seeing it as NAI.

[72offsuit]

[quote="In post 519, clidd"]@ 72offsuit

1.

I believe you don't like me at all, regardless of the alignment you are in. Why did you appear to be more open in post 344, considering that only our reads are similar? why are you being more receptive to me when in the other two games you were totally against my considerations?

Game 1) I didn;t cooperate with you because I thought you were likely to be scum. You basically self-declared yourself as near-confirmed town and were arrogant about it. You didn't wagon GW day one, you were on the PKP lynch day one which was an absolute joke, given he was not scummy AT ALL. I then proceeded to vote for you.

Game 2) I was scum. My 'being difficult' served 2 birds with one stone: I furthered my scum goals AND was faking/replicating a "being difficult/noncooperative' meta to get you to read me as town.

Rest of the questions I will continue at lunch. gtg

[clidd]

Ok, I will be waiting.

[72offsuit]

Hey, @72 do you have any experience of playing scum?

Given the game is completed, I can now properly answer this question:

Yes, I've been scum once now on forum mafia, here:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82166

[72offsuit]

1 TBC... And this game so far I read you more as being town.

2. I have a townlean on you. I haven;t ruled you out as being mafia, you could most definitely be scum, I just don't see any scum-indicative behaviour so far.

3. I want to pressure Walrus more. There are still 4 days of D1. He is lurking and the posts he has posted don't give me the impression of a townie scum-hunting.

4. I don;t see how you asking me this and me responding to this is pro-town. If you or anyone else can explain and convince me of the benefit of this question, then I'll answer.

5. In the hypothetical scenario that Menal is mason:

Lotus/esqy - most probable, given post 213, where they say they believe the claim

NOT Ico - I doubt ico would have agreed to this plan and the response from ico was quite emphatic, felt like genuine frustration to mena's claim.
NOT Elmo - due to post 168 where she calls it a bad claim and because mena scumreads her
NOT me - because mena scum-read me

6. D1 strategy is to lynch the townie that I could most effectively paint as being scummy that looks like genuine scumhunting.

7. If Ata is scum, current read would be probably within {Clidd, Elmo, Walrus or Doobie} - middle tiers in reads list

8. I'd probably tentatively guess that its vanilla townie vs vanilla townie claiming masons
Depends on the night kill, depends on what my exact PR role was and what result i got from my night action.
If I had a guilty-ish/mafia-indicative report, I would allow for some scumhunting by town to proceed, see what evolves out of the mason claim situation if nethier claim died, and then out it towards the middle of the day: to allow for scumhunting early on, but to also allow enough time at the end of day for discussion of the report, my claim, and planning for the days ahead.