Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[popsofctown]

If it's not Amrun we were never going to win anyway

X

-Summer

If this is town!Ank, evaluate this statement against this universe, not the ones where you're doing far more

[Team STRQ]

Ame entered the game and was immediately pushing Looker as strong town and defending that far more than any other read, even to the point of insisting upon it whenever it's challenged, and yet where exactly is that same push towards the end when it's obvious she's being heavened? it's hard to believe that she's making a stance towards pushing a town up into heaven that she expects will make a wrong move because otherwise I would fully expect her to destroy that buildup with overblown WIFOM when it suddenly becomes obvious that she's going to be the heaven target. It looks a lot more like she was playing to try to push her scummate into the spotlight and force them to be heavened first, because she also mostly stopped contributing at the same time that the wagon on her started to build up.

My theory is that since she was townread on her own merits, she expected that it would be easier to win by pushing her partner up first and relying on her own ability to be townread in order to maintain her own chances of being heavened later on.

The third, I have no idea offhand. I doubt it's Amrun, Elmo, or implosion due to her WIFOM attempts, so my best guess is that the scumteam are trying to push the game in the same general trajectory as before which slightly more often means SS is scum than pops.

-Summer

[Team STRQ]

or it's just pops lol

-Summer

[Team STRQ]

If it's not Amrun we were never going to win anyway

X

-Summer

If this is town!Ank, evaluate this statement against this universe, not the ones where you're doing far more

this has nothing to do with anything.

Scum got locktowned in this universe, this is a strong sign that the town needs to reevaluate the game. What it takes is to step back and double check all your reads to make sure they are correct, not just push through the same shit that's been going through all game when we have LITERAL FLIPPED SCUM that's putting her in the most safe zone possible in a post right before she flips.

If this isn't a sign that she's a planned mislynch, then nothing is.

-Summer

[Something_Smart]

Okay, you've convinced me. I won't vote Amrun today.

VOTE: STRQ

[Team STRQ]

Best townreads I think is Implo, Elmo, STRQ, I have a fourth I'd put at a similar level of certainty but you seemed very serious about this no more no less thing.
Two scumreads is Wooper and Amrun.
I realized on trying to fulfill this request that I really feel like I could roll a d3 on Amrun vs. S_S vs. Ame
If Wooper is d1 lynchproof that's not something to be happy with and I think I might reread this game or half of it.

this actually makes sense with the planned judgment day theory with an Ame + Looker team

Wooper obviously needs to die D1 because of how he was playing, some of which are these:

Amrun is kinda scum and needs to die this phase
I'm at like 2/4 bad faith engagements with STRQ heads and the other ones are 1) lurking, 2) posting contentless ravings so I figure they just don't want to be read. :shrug: this is probably also scum at this point.

gl on the third

Elmo remains clearly town
implosion kinda mild town. I dont totally love how he's losing engagement but I also kinda think scum!implosion makes more of this gamestate. I want this to be slipping but it's not really. unless my reads suck he's town.
SS looks like town!SS at surface value but anyone hard townreading is more likely pocketing, or (less likely) just really dense. my dude hasn't alignment told much at all yet. SS is aware of the way he presents earlygame and does not have an issue replicating this as scum. he also hasn't shown anything this game outside his scumrange. watch this for later content but like around null maybe leaning slightly upwards

pops close to rand but leans into town a little? idrc gl on this
I find it kinda impossible to have a read I care about on looker aorn
homura was kinda wolfy

Amrun/STRQ>

Ame>looker>pops

>ss>implo>elmo

I think I'm L-1 or L-2 and my wagon is kinda filth buuuuut if this is hammered gl/hf

Amrun, Something_Smart, Wooper

if this is a list of big ol cuties itt you missed a few names

if not I'm finding this trio pretty hard to digest

pops I understand you are stating reads this game but I see nearly no trajectory and really don't understand how to parse them if you're town

I think like every post you've made on this page looks like it's trying to accomplish something very specific

I don't think I believe that you scumread me
I find your discomfort with SS really intangible given you also think there was one scum in that dialogue apparently?
I think your criticism of STRQ really hits a lot of moot points? I think there's a lot of reasons to scumread their dayplay but you wanting Krazzy to be scum because he's bot hard townreading you while also being a non-factor has me a bit lost

if I assume I'm just not wrong

wooper/Elmo town
SS/implo likely town
strq/amrun I divine the alignments of later
I wonder how many red are in

pops/ame/looker

lol

not to mention that obviously STRQ/Amrun both need to be available for future hells to protect them from being helled themselves

it's like, why else would pops have this lukewarm response, and be so willing to lynch Wooper at that stage in the game?

-Summer

[Team STRQ]

Okay, you've convinced me. I won't vote Amrun today.

VOTE: STRQ

is this a serious post?

-Summer

[Team STRQ]

it's really interesting how Ame goes to excruciating detail to explain the townread on pops after having virtually no interactions with her the entire game beforehand, far more detail than any other slot.

It's really something, isn't it.

-Summer

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Welp this happened. Town did something. When I was asleep.

I have to ask this question. Since when we Ame the safe play even before the flip? Maybe I'm just not meant for this stuff anymore as I don't want to makeong giant posts about my thoughts and just don't think about it when the time is necessary. Either way. Amrun I don't think is scum. But if she is I'd give it to her.

[implosion]

Why is your immediate assumption that Ame scum -> Amrun scum, pops? I had the opposite in that I was sold on Amrun being scum and Ame flipping scum was like the one eventuality where I have to rethink that given d1 wagon dynamics.

[implosion]

in THEORY it's not so bad that we heaven'd ame bc i am glad to know they were scum now and not later but uhhh yeah this is going poorly

[implosion]

Though Amrun randomly pushing Ame is suspect in principal? I imagine that's where some of it's coming from?

[Team STRQ]

implo do you think Ame was trying to get herself pushed up first?

-Summer

[implosion]

I don't see the scum incentive implo. Empirically that kind of "massive effort but like is that really the thing you should aim the massive effort at" has been NAI or TI when I've seen it (recently Asriel Dreemurr in a micro)

how often is this a scum reaction to my post before it.

[implosion]

I doubt Ame really *strongly* cared whether she got heavened yesterday or not because she's furthering her win condition one way or another. Or well, put another way, it's hard to predict how much scum would value going to heaven in the setup, because there are valid arguments from the position of Ame yesterday to try to go to heaven and valid arguments to try to stay on earth. I don't know which way scum would have preferred.

[implosion]

Meh. I'll probably want to vote Amrun today anyway. Amrun is now the slot who if town, I kind of need to know now? Idk. I'm certainly not committing to anything after ame flipping scum.

[Team STRQ]

"it's not scum indicative because it doesn't make sense to effort that like that" is not exactly the hardest thing to argue, and it shuts down something that could be potentially bad for her preemptively before it becomes an issue

-Summer

[implosion]

It is also, particularly from my pov of course, worth evaluating exactly the trajectory that led to Ame being the heaven target and not me. Of course I'm part of that, and of course it's hard to glean meaning from it for the reason I just mentioned of not being able to strongly predict how scum are evaluating the setup. But it should still be worth some thought.

[Team STRQ]

I doubt Ame really *strongly* cared whether she got heavened yesterday or not because she's furthering her win condition one way or another. Or well, put another way, it's hard to predict how much scum would value going to heaven in the setup, because there are valid arguments from the position of Ame yesterday to try to go to heaven and valid arguments to try to stay on earth. I don't know which way scum would have preferred.

think about it at the angle of what allows the scumteam to win in the most possible scenarios

namely, how they can win via heaven and via judgment day.

-Summer

[implosion]

Honestly, I need to throw things away and start from scratch. Maybe the one thing to hold on to for now is Looker-town but really should start from scratch.

[implosion]

I doubt Ame really *strongly* cared whether she got heavened yesterday or not because she's furthering her win condition one way or another. Or well, put another way, it's hard to predict how much scum would value going to heaven in the setup, because there are valid arguments from the position of Ame yesterday to try to go to heaven and valid arguments to try to stay on earth. I don't know which way scum would have preferred.

think about it at the angle of what allows the scumteam to win in the most possible scenarios

namely, how they can win via heaven and via judgment day.

-Summer

I mean, we can certainly think about it logically.

But this is the kind of problem that doesn't have a single, universal, perfect logical answer; and thus, we cannot assume that scum are using the same logic to evaluate the answer as we are in the thread. So honestly I don't think it's worth engaging in too much thought over.

[Team STRQ]

sure

but it's something to keep in mind when evaluating scumteams

WHAT are they doing to win the game?

-Summer

[implosion]

I.e. scum perfectly possibly could have thought "this is great, we're getting Ame into heaven, that's great, only one more and we win"

or they could have thought "man, it'd be great if we could avoid heavening Ame for a phase or two, so that she can stay on earth and fuck with the town's reads from a position of authority"

there is no way to use logic to distinguish between which of these scum were thinking. For all we know they might have been ambivalent between the two!

[Team STRQ]

the scumteam are almost certainly looking for a Heaven win at this point with Ame being pushed up, so who is the designated heaven target?

-Summer

[Team STRQ]

I.e. scum perfectly possibly could have thought "this is great, we're getting Ame into heaven, that's great, only one more and we win"

or they could have thought "man, it'd be great if we could avoid heavening Ame for a phase or two, so that she can stay on earth and fuck with the town's reads from a position of authority"

there is no way to use logic to distinguish between which of these scum were thinking. For all we know they might have been ambivalent between the two!

Ame's big wall was made from the position of knowing she was going to be heavened, so that's a good place to start narrowing things down.

-Summer