Micro 927: Hectic's Ultimate Conspiracy (FIN)

[Kanna]

dsj

1. On a scale of 0-10 how upset would you be if we chose Datisi?
2. Was there any sign in the hood that Cliid or Datisi were trying to get you not to reset my count (either by implying that if I didn't follow through I was scum or more directly)?
3. If you were in our position, who would you choose based on the public content currently available and why?
4. Who is scummier out of Clidd and Datisi to you and why?
5. Why didn't you post in the game thread?

1. 10
2. clidd out right said they would reset your count and Aaron agreed to it
3. No idea I'm glad I'm over here
4. I would say clidd, Aaron had an emotional response when it was revealed that this is the mafia side
5. I was busy with another game and then I fell asleep

Btw, by Aaron, do you mean Datisi or am I missing something?

[Datisi]

Hmmmmm I don't feel like doing this today
the whole discussion whether i would or would not play the same/different as scum/town is just noise
i'm here for a bit if anyone wants to ask anything but will be going to sleep soon

Datisi

1. Who is scummier out of dsj and Clidd?
2. I'm probably going to vote for Clidd, why shouldn't I?

1. scummier? dsj. they both *are* scum though, if that's the trap you were setting.
2. because he's scum.

[Datisi]

If it were Hectic, I would even agree, but Datisi's own profile does not suggest it.

out of interest, d'you do a metadive on me?

[Ame]

Hmmmmm I don't feel like doing this today
the whole discussion whether i would or would not play the same/different as scum/town is just noise
i'm here for a bit if anyone wants to ask anything but will be going to sleep soon

Datisi

1. Who is scummier out of dsj and Clidd?
2. I'm probably going to vote for Clidd, why shouldn't I?

1. scummier? dsj. they both *are* scum though, if that's the trap you were setting.
2. because he's scum.

What has been scummier about dsj?

And what I mean is why shouldn't I vote Clidd from my perspective? I.e why are you the town and not him?

[Datisi]

i'm trying to figure out why is dsjstr calling me "Aaron" and i have no idea

also why are you "glad you're over here" when you apparently don't have a lot to show that you're town? wouldn't town!dsjstr be very not-glad to be here if he's unable to show he's town as that leads to a loss? I'm sure as fucc not enjoying this.

pedit: his lurkiness? idk, generally when i see people at least ~trying~ i'm more tended towards townreading them. as i did with clidd this round. There was also one very weird post by him in our hood (where he was generally lurking as well), lemme check

I don't know if I can offer you anything objective. Fuck, I was sure that my hood is the town one. Usually in situations like this I try to ~obvtown~ through tone, but it doesn't always work, especially if you're not familiar with my games.

[Datisi]

Yeah, just checked. It was mostly clidd and I talking in the hood, with dsjstr occasionally making a meaningless post. When i told him to start talking and asked him if I was getting pocketed by clidd, he immediately got ~suspicious~ because of the obviously logical problem there that clidd would have to be his partner. clidd kept insisting we're the town hood, and dsjstr additionally said that we've been talking a lot and that usually happens when scum are trying to trick town. though he never mentioned any suspicion in the main thread.

[clidd]

Everyone please answer each question and be as thorough as possible on questions where reasoning can be provided. If we want to win, the town among you must out town the other two. Help us come to understand your towniness.

Clidd

1. Please explain how "posting differently from scum play is town indicative" and "posting differently from scum play is suspicious" is not contradictory. I want to understand your thought process here.
2. If I had gotten to 1, would you have reset me or were you so sure on Kanna that you were willing to let it end then?
3. In post 191 why did you link my 183 instead of just responding to it? (you had it quoted)
4. What did you mean by 176? I understand the emotional read part, but what do you mean by wanting to check if it were correct? How would you do so?

1. I will not explain it again. It seems ''contradictory'' to you because you are unable to follow my line of reasoning correctly.

2. As I explained, Kanna's entry into this game was very scummy, as her reaction after the suspicion was announced. I did not see a significant attempt to try to explain herself, just as I found the call to quote an isolated game strange, as if that proved something. Last round I assimilated with an event that happened in a past game, involving Hectic and you, so it would be completely plausible for her to use such information as scum. So YES, i was sure to some extent. But the lack of opposition to this theory prevented me from recognizing that this hypothesis was incorrect, because for me, my logic was perfect.

3. I was answering the important part of your post. For me the game would end there, so much so, that I speculated about Datisi just to try to instigate myself if I was correct (and concluded that I was).

4. At the time, I was discussing on the hood the possibility of Kanna, in fact, being scum. Then I theorized that you would be the partner, trying to simulate a town attitude with the same tool that you used in the last round. Initially, I wanted to confirm if I was right, or chasing the wrong track, but I didn't find any arguments against that when commenting with both on the hood. The fact that I opened this dialogue in the private chat with them was because I considered my hood to be the town, so it would be useless to discuss it in depth in the public chat with scums to disturb my thoughts.

The way they conducted the private chat was good, as Datisi interacted with me directly while Dsj served as support, making some sporadic comments and agreeing with everything that was said.

Sequence of important events:

1 ° -> Datisi posts very fast and says he is happy to be town, asking if I am too.
2 ° -> I say that I have suspicions on Kanna
3 ° -> Dsj makes a pointless comment, imitating my "huum", as if he wanted to convey the feeling that he was suspicious of that.
4 ° -> Exactly ten minutes of discussion later, Datisi "appears" from the ''beyond'' and says that he agrees with me.
5 ° -> After I mentioned the possible Ame's bluff and suggested the possible connection between Kanna + Ame, Datisi asks if I want to reset her counter or if I should expose her bluff (he didn't disagree with me at any moment, nor questioned the motivation. It just seemed like I said, "Guys, I think Kanna and Ame are partners" "Datisi:" Okay, I agree "" Dsj: "" Okay, I agree too ". they basically abstain from responsibility because they knew I was wrong, so they could use that fact against me later.
6 ° -> I mention that I find it strange that you are insisting on the same approach as the last round, since it did not work.
7 ° -> Datisi immediately 2 minutes after my posts says he considers the duo Kanna + Ame lock-scum ???
8 ° -> Randomly, Datisi tells Dsj to post more (trying to pretend they don't have a chat in common).
9 ° -> Dsj starts to be more active and bring generic ideas that scums usually post a lot on the hood (trying, again, to deliver the feeling that he was suspicious of something, even agreeing with EVERYTHING I was saying)
10 ° -> I make transparent some actions that I will do in the public chat, awaiting opinions.
11 ° -> Datisi stops posting, as if he wants to wait and see what I'm going to do.
12 ° -> As soon as I say I'm not going to reset Ame's counter again, 1 MINUTE EXACTLY, Datisi says that if Ame doesn't selfvote, she will be confirmed along with Kanna, reaffirming the hypothesis I had previously mentioned .

It was always like that, I posted something, explained, Datisi agreed, Dsj posted something about paranoia, but even so he believed on every single of my words, and then there was a period when the posts stopped, from both, as if they were doing something else to not reply. Obviously, I don't need to deduce that they were using scum chat during that time.

[clidd]

@Clidd; How was my intro so scummy that you had to have me as lockscum though? Also the previous round wasn't even my town meta, it was just me saying I'll come back later cause I was busy.

Team is Clidd/Datisi again, let's go guys

1. Your activity
2. Overreaction
3. Timing
4. Lamist
5. Lack of post-suspicion engagement

This with the fact that I thought it was unlikely that Datisi would be scum again, so I was sure my hood was entire town. I even tried to discuss this theory with them, but both were so receptive that I made the mistake of not doubting the lack of paranoia in our hood. They simulated a progression from "

Why do you think that?"

to

"we fully agree"

in a short period of time. I have proof of that, but I intend to paraphrasing it as soon as I get home.

Actually, 3 of these relate to activity. If you knew I was town in that last round and didn’t participate because I was busy then why do you think activity would be AI for me? Also I said this:

Wow, ok.

If you're thinking it's me based on my intro, take a look at my marathon games. I don't believe everyone who thinks is me is town honestly.

But why didn’t you check my marathon games to see if I was telling the truth? Or at least asked about it? You didn’t give me the benefit of the doubt at all there because you wanted to make an easy push

The second point is gamblers fallacy, clidd. At least one of you/dat rolled scum twice there (´• ᴗ •`✿)

Your marathon didn't mean that you was telling the truth. You act as if mentioning a past game with similar initial behavior confirms you as town, when in reality, this assimilation with past games can be done by any alignment, just like I used the game in common with Hectic and Ame in the past round, as scum, to suggest a behavior I wanted to point out. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fallacy you are implying, my point was that I imagined the chance of Datisi to be scum again low, and I associated this point with the towny behavior he was apparently presenting. My point is NOT AN ISOLATED fact, but the joining of a set of EVENTUALITIES that combined form a read. That's HOW I play.

[Ame]

1. I will not explain it again. It seems ''contradictory'' to you because you are unable to follow my line of reasoning correctly.

2. As I explained, Kanna's entry into this game was very scummy, as her reaction after the suspicion was announced. I did not see a significant attempt to try to explain herself, just as I found the call to quote an isolated game strange, as if that proved something. Last round I assimilated with an event that happened in a past game, involving Hectic and you, so it would be completely plausible for her to use such information as scum. So YES, i was sure to some extent. But the lack of opposition to this theory prevented me from recognizing that this hypothesis was incorrect, because for me, my logic was perfect.

[1.1] I can't vote you until this is explained. If the reasoning is not contradictory, you should be able to logically explain it.
[2.1] Yes or No: would you have reset my counter when it got to 1?

dsj says that you stated you would:

2. clidd out right said they would reset your count and Aaron agreed to it

[Ame]

5. I was busy with another game and then I fell asleep

You were posting in the hood though, why not here?

[Ame]

I did not see a significant attempt to try to explain herself

I also don't get this. She wasn't even online at the time. You weren't giving her

time

to explain herself. I don't get why you would be so confident from one post not to give her time to post more.

[Ame]

What happened in the hood after Kanna selfvoted? dsj says Datisis had an emotional response.

[clidd]

He's lying. He stopped posting after Kanna selfvoted.

[clidd]

Ame, post 220 was said out of context. I was developing my line of thought about kanna and you as scum team. I mentioned briefly that MAYBE I would have reset your count, but I went back after I came to the conclusion that I had no doubts about the Datisi's alignment at that moment, before Kanna selfvoted.

[clidd]

I'm almost giving up on explaining this, but in summary:

it all depends on the context. In this game, specifically, I observed a demonstration in the past round of Datisi's attitude as scum. Theoretically, if he flip scum again in a row, it is notorious that he would try to change his playstyle to appear town. However, imagine that he changes drastically, leaving the questioning sphere and adopting a greater conformity, agreeing much more often than normal and posting differently on the hood. It's very suspicious, don't you think? it is almost as if a beggar who begs on the street appeared, hours later, on the same street he frequents, in evening dress and wearing a million-dollar ferrari, the radical change of posture would attract a lot of attention. And that's basically what I noticed in this game. It is so suspicious that I did not imagine it was scum simulating a different playstyle, precisely because of how obvious it is. If he had gone for the logically safer option, he would have changed a few lighter strokes, at most medium, to show that he was slightly out of the scum spectrum that we saw. In the same analogy, the beggar would appear on the same street, hours later, in a regular jacket, slightly cleaner and with semi-new shoes. He would not attract so much attention and could beg for money at will.

The contradiction, in your head, occurred because you don't understand that I consider several scenarios where the two things happen,

"posting differently from scum play is town indicative"

and

"posting differently from scum play is suspicious"

. There is no universal truth regarding this, but different contexts and scenarios that vary in applicability through the variables from one game to the other.

[clidd]

And I wouldn't reset your counter, because I was sure of you bluffing and Kanna being your partner.

[Ame]

And if he were to actually choose to change his meta, it would not be so drastic, as it would bring suspicion.

If I see a player playing completely differently than he was as scum, I will always be inclined to think that this is his meta!town

grumble grumble

[clidd]

You know that my reasoning is genuine.

[clidd]

I can't comment because of the rules, but I believe this is not the first time that someone think I'm contradicting myself because they can't understand me.

These people are always wrong, that's my own playstyle.

[clidd]

Waiting for votes.

[Ame]

It is so suspicious that I did not imagine it was scum simulating a different playstyle, precisely because of how obvious it is.

I understand you, but the reasoning annoys me because it's more complex than it needs to be. Like you made a logical leap to justify your town read. Sometimes a cow is just a cow and sometime scum is just scum. But you went: he's scummy so he must not be scum he must be town.

[clidd]

For me it's very intuitive. The problem with this game was the SR I had at Kanna and the TR I had on Datisi early.

[Ame]

I do think it is genuine though. And because Datisi didn't post after Kanna voted despite it being during his active hours, I believe he was content with us believing you two were the scum team. And it is actually him and dsjstr.

VOTE: Clidd

[clidd]

It's pretty obvious that I'm playing alone here.

[Ame]

If you're scum I'm never trusting you again