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Hectic-------------

Chara-------------

Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8--

Chara

Not Fighting:

Hectic

(expired on 2020-03-13 23:58:00)

[Nachomamma8]

I am just about headed on my way to work now, should get back in 11-12 hours. From then on I plan on spending pretty much all of my free time either in thread or cleaning so if you could hold off on making a decision until I can get some time I would greatly appreciate it.

[Nachomamma8]

The mistake that I made with regards to Farkran is underestimating him, which I don't think is crazy unreasonable.

There are odd strategy choices from Farkran's end - if he used that passion and hardcore efforting to press people who were less widely townread or people who seemed more vulnerable in places (Bingle, fuck even Psyche) instead of pressing the tirade against you I think scum would have won already because he would have had a louder voice and I think it would have been much harder for anyone to find a foothold against him.

The emotional tells that I pointed out (him being frustrated at Suji, some of his exchange with Replica), I still think were exceptionally well-faked (Replica might disagree).

My big mistake when reading through Farkran, I think, is mainly that I saw a completely different Farkran from any of his town and scum games and I should have used that knowledge to urge me towards the "Farkran is scum because his scumhunting isn't real" situation quicker.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll get you your "scummiest thing by Chara daily" when I'm back and reading the Farkran-Chara ISO, but the biggest red flag that I see with the benefit of hindsight bias is the passivity. While we were ripping each other apart yesterday, Chara was more hanging back instead of actually engaging. When we first transitioned to lynching instead of sparing, Chara was protesting, but it wasn't protesting in a significant way, just sort of a quiet voice in back that was still putting down kill votes it didn't particularly care for.

I also think the transition into today is strange; Chara hasn't really gotten the opportunity to post or engage because of real life stuff but it frames the decision coming into today as one that was made the second it came in the thread - I think that Chara is a paranoid person like you and I and I don't think that it would be comfortable making the decision without addressing the possibility of being wrong more than it has so far.

[Nachomamma8]

Especially when the big reason for me being scum is POE; I don't see how you don't double-check your work before jumping (aka pressing townreads a little bit).

[Hectic]

well, one thing is for sure, pals
you're both incredible players no matter your alignments

Nacho, why do you think Chara was so good at discounting Farkran when he first proposed the anti-Hectic/Chara/Farkran idea
the timeline of events that Farkran posted which Chara proceeds to dismantle comes to mind
also, why does scum!Farkran derail any potential chance of a Chara SPARE?

13 hours remaining

[Hectic]

alright.
i see the arguments for lynching today. i'm assuming they're sound, mechanics Chara is taking a nap at the moment.

pedit: why do we lynch me on a Nacho townflip?
i'd be happy to spare Replica if that's on the table.

why did you give up on taking the 4 SPARE route here?
did you think the people proposing lynching as optimal were town?
Farkran was one of them

[Nachomamma8]

Ended up being the 12 hour situation - should be home in less than 20 minutes.

[Nachomamma8]

also, why does scum!Farkran derail any potential chance of a Chara SPARE?

I thought about this at work a little bit. I don't think that Farkran really derailed any potential chance of a Chara spare, and I think that him blitzing against a Chara/Hectic/whatever spread (a spread of people who were much more townread than he was) was indicative of the scumteam being in a better position than Farkran and I ever were. As in, Farkran playing with Chara as a universally townread partner probably figured that he was going down eventually, which is why he mostly tried to sew in paranoia so that he could support his partner and prepare his partner for endgame.

If Farkran is playing with me as a partner, then I think that he believes it's more likely that he makes it to endgame than me making it to endgame and so he doesn't have the luxury of townreading possible mislynches like Bingle (since he knows he has to go against those reads late game anyways), nor do I think he's as stubborn as he was in fights with Replica or as likely to draw his ire.

The other piece that comes up is the N2 Psyche kill - I don't think that ever happens in a Farkran/Nacho team which was not in a wonderful position at that point in time. It think that Psyche was killed mainly from this list (and yes he changed his reads near the end and yes obviously there was a lot more in addition to what he posted) but:

Suji
Sherlock
Hectic
Nachomamma
Me

I'd bet the whole game on this entire group being town. And god surely hates someone in the scumteam if the IC isn't among these. I simply do not need any scumreads this game and don't care if you don't like it. Let's just end this and go next.

The truth is that his spare list was 100% town whereas others were not.

I also think that me spending a good majority of Day 2 promoting Psyche being town as shit whereas were more luke warm on it (see 1318 for Psyche acknowledging me doing that) only makes sense as scum if I'm trying to butter him up and pocket him - why on earth would I kill him instead of someone like Replica who was widely townread AND had me as his top scumread? I haven't actually put thoughts into this for a while, but the Psyche over Replica kill happened for a reason aka he was wrong about SOMETHING - he wasn't wrong about his main scumread in Farkran, he wasn't wrong in popular mislynch target being town, but he was wrong about Chara being in his towncore.

[Nachomamma8]

Chara's Day 1 has two things that are sort of tied for the scummiest.

The first is the interaction with the Asriel/Farkran wagons. Me/Amrun/Sujimichi were pressing Asriel after the initial wagon on Suji died down, Chara instead initially swerved towards Amrun. This struck me as a bit odd at the time - it didn't have any particular reasons to pressure Amrun over Asriel - in fact, the reason why Chara hurt Amrun after the initial Asriel wagon was formed was because it was asking Amrun why she didn't follow me on Asriel initially. Not a crazy big deal, but this is one time that Chara deviated strongly from the towncore and it happened to be when the towncore was pressing a wagon on a lurking partner it probably wasn't jazzed to be losing immediately on Day 1. The second half of the first point is Chara's confidence when pressing Farkran. You're right that it ripped Farkran apart fairly brutally, but I would argue that's actually a strong point in the naughty column for Chara - the only time when Chara has been confident in its hurt votes or its attempts to murder has been with its votes and pushed on Farkran - the below is Chara's wording on its initially vote for Farkran:

More gratuitous shade - there is nothing in my theory that i haven't been explaining solidly and properly, even if you believe i am wrong. Resorting to omgus-fossing when you are out of arguments is not the correct move.

HURT: Farkran

the solidity of your theory or the consistency of your explanation has little to do with your towniness. it does have everything to do with scum who try to be correct in order to avoid being caught in a contradiction.

it also doesn't make any sense if you scumread Replica to word it this way. it's like you're saying if town Replica should find your argument sound, when the point of what you're saying is that they're scum.
that's not quite exactly what i mean but i hope it comes across.

I don't know if the bolded is directed to me, but in case it is, it's a misrep. I explicitly said i would compromise on pretty much anything if i am the last active player 10 minutes from deadline.

i was talking about Hectic. but your jumping to your own defense on that is telling.

Chara doesn't have that bite when interacting with any other of its scumreads this game; fuck, I'm supposedly confirmed as scum to Chara here but it never quite addresses me with this confidence. I think that when Farkran replaced in, Chara saw its partner attacking the strongest town player in the game and going off the rails a bit so responded with some confirmation bias distancing. I don't think it's natural for a townie to be super confident about only scumread they had that was correct and then not really confident about any other push ever; town put themselves out there and get egg on their faces because they are so horribly and spectacularly wrong.


Second thing from Day 1 that ends up being the scummiest is Chara's interaction with Suji's townslip. It doesn't buy Suji's townslip immediately, which is not great but understandable, but then... kind of just ignores it for the rest of the day. I don't think that's a natural reaction from town.

[Nachomamma8]

Day 2/Day 3 I'm kind of lumping together since it's the most significant nail in the coffin for me outside of everything that I've found. Remember that Day 3, for scum, was a "if you get lynched, you lose" type of day, explained by Bingle's post below.

I suppose I should explain. We lynch scum and spare literally anyone tomorrow: either no scum were spared and the game is over because scum shoot themselves or the remaining scum is in Hectic/Tomorrow spare.

Potential teams for eight unflipped players is kind of a lot of ground to cover, but I think we can rule out a significant number of teams.

Chara spends the entirety of Day 2 attacking Farkran. Here are highlights (and just highlights, there's a TON more):

Spoiler: Chara v Farkran

HEAL: Hectic

HURT: Farkran

Hectic, do you have any scumreads?

i also don't think we have enough yet. at least not a tight enough PoE that i'm willing to bet the game on it. more from alimdia/Nacho/Chemist slots would be good.

but i'm pretty confident about being able to reliably find town in the right environment. i just think it will be ruined or at least skewed if we collectively decide to only spare. i was thinking about playing this like coalition, but that was a game that i ended up being confident in exactly 0 townreads in due to the way it was set up.

Perhaps it would be more understandable as a detailed timeline:

1) Chara townreads Hectic because of Hectic content
2) Hectic reaches Spare-1, Chara unvotes and states Hectic is not towny enough
3) Hectic scumreads Chara because of point 2
4) Chara puts back Hectic in its top townreads
5) Hectic unvotes Chara but is still suspicious of it
6) I scumread Replica
7) Chara scumreads me because i scumread Replica
8) Replica townreads Chara because it scumreads me
-d2 happens-
8) Hectic now townreads Chara for no reason at all
9) Hectic now scumreads me because i scumread him
10) Suddenly, Hectic, Chara and Replica formed a townbloc of their own

literally just because of how the players involved are reading themselves

whereas i am pushed as a scumread because i scumread them.

Just no.

i don't know where to start with this. i voted Replica when i did because they were my best townread at the time, and we ended up having more time in the day so i left the vote there.

i asked Nacho about the Hectic locktown read because i wanted to know why it was lock, as opposed to a good townread (i was always townreading Hectic).

i didn't scumread you for your Replica scumread, that's a ridiculous oversimplification. i scumread you for your approach and the way you, ironically considering this push, focus on contradictions over any sign of looking for a deeper understanding.

point 8 (the first one) is the most egregious. Replica stated quite plainly that the TR was from my response to Amrun and Replica's argument. you were not involved at all.

Hectic

also

plainly said he townread me for my posting around the end of day.

i'm usually the one calling out misuses of the term misrep, which is thrown around far too often when the cause is usually a misunderstanding, but there is no way to quantify this other as a blatant misrepresentation of the entire progression and the situation.

Bolded part 1: you mean your biggest reason to townread hectic happened when you switched your vote from him to Replica?

Bolded part 2: consistency is a town trait. Of course scum also tries very hard to be consistent, but they are often forced into inconsistency because of their "failure" when reading other players. If you base your reads on a wrong premise and then you are proven wrong by claims or flip, you need to re-evaluate, keeping in mind to avoid PoEing yourself or your partners while also forming new scumreads that you know to be fake. Of course scum tries, but keeping consistency up is hard. As town, it's way easier, because you actually have a chance to be correct when scumreading someone.

Bolded part 3 and 4: sure, please tell me the real reasons why you are townreading Hectic and Replica; why Hectic is townreading you and Replica; why Replica is townreading you and Hectic. If there are anyone else other than omgus and chainsaw defenses, i'm all ears.

part 1: half of it did. the other half of it happened after Hectic expressed regret about the decision. at the time i didn't think much of the delay from Hectic's end, in hindsight after continuing the think about it i realized it was a very bad move if scum. that's the thing about people, they can miss something or not fully realize it the first time.

part 2: i disagree but i at least see your point. in my experience, scum on the whole tend to be more worried about it than town (in the same way that town usually post with more abandon and less caution than scum, since scum have something to hide). there are also reasons to reconsider besides claims and flips. rereading the game happens, hell, coming back to the thread later after a nice cup of tea can be the reason for a read change.

part 3: i refuse to repeat myself for you again. i'm all for dispelling confusion and for being clear but i've repeated myself enough and you pretending that i haven't tells me you're acting in bad faith or not looking hard enough. if you are genuinely, completely confused and tell me so, i will find it for you, if you actually attempt at reading anything i've said this game. and you quite literally quoted Hectic's reason for the Replica TR in your wallpost.

this is important so i'll repeat it. pursuing both spares and fights seriously is more valuable than only pursuing spares, even if you ultimately want a spare.

Psyche has some short walls, that's exciting.
regarding being cagey about towncasing: i still don't know if it will do more harm than good.

i do scumread Farkran

but i don't love Psyche's angle of "anyone not hard townreading Sujimichi from his play should have been" because it's both hindsighty and silly to expect everyone will read him the same way.

Compare that to this:

i TR Amrun, it's not lock but i've come around on her, particularly in her interactions with Sujimichi. why do you scumread her?

hmm.
i didn't like her giving in to SPARING Sujimichi after she was so vehemently against the concept of SPARING.
but y'know, looking back, that actually came after Sujimichi claimed FN and her defence of Nacho did look very towny.
nevermind pal.
do you agree with my take on Chemist?
i've been reading Sherlock's 452 but i don't get why those questions make him town when he rarely ever follows up on them and i can't see reads that have been formed off of them.
hell if i know.
maybe he's just a close to the chest type of player.

what Sherlock said about Chemist's style lines up, and from what i know of Chemist it makes sense as well.

it's enough i don't really want to lynch Chemist, but i wouldn't spare him either. if he was more into the game i think i could be more confident, at least in terms of securing a townread. he could be trying to skirt along and avoid a lynch, but that would indicate to me (from scum Chemist) that he thinks his partner is in a good position now.
i think that scum would be putting more into this, especially given how the game looks right now. but i know that's not the most reliable measure. i do think a large part of it is playstyle, he's reticent as town by Sherlock's knowledge.
i'm interested in what he thinks of Farkran's case.

pedit: hello Chemist! why do you TR Hectic now?

Chara unvotes Farkran eventually because it wants to focus on sparing you (fine, I understand), but there's never a reason for Chara to back down from the Farkran scumread. Chara never attacks Chemist in this way or talks about Farkran in a way where it's suddenly convinced that he's town. However, Day 2, Replica and Amrun are both voting Farkran, which is a wagon that if it goes through wins town the game. Who derails it?

HEAL: Replica
i'm disappointed that my preference is still what i started the day with except i'm not. this is objectively the right thing to do. Replica's town, nothing i've looked at has really changed that and my

only

problem with the slot is he goes for a Bingle spare every time before one on himself. but i understand why. also if he is scum then the whole frustration bit would i think have to be faked.

re: Farkran's last post i really don't think Replica has been anything near unpleasant. he just scumreads you. he's also been analyzing, you just disagree. and you're wrong too, given you have Hectic scum still and i find it really pointless to argue about that further either.

HURT: Chemist
i want to spare Replica, but if for some reason that's not happening this is the only hurt vote i'm making today. and i'm sorry but while he probably is town if this is right i'm not comfortable sparing Bingle. i'm actually not sure if a Bingle mispare or a Chemist mislynch is worse. probably a flip is better than no flip. Bingle is a vague townread based on his posting today which i've liked, and Chemist is poe + i think a struggle to produce genuine content.

Chemist/Farkran does seem extremely obvious. i didn't manage to really get a read on Nacho i'm happy with, but i think he could be badly absent scum with Chemist (though i feel like scum Nacho woud make more of an effort? but this is a guess i don't know him well, based on my impressions from this game and what other players have said). i could see absent scum Chemist a little better, and especially his last few posts feel like an attempt at content that is just... there, and leads to a Bingle/Nacho solve.
and if Farkran is scum i find it unlikely it's with Nacho. as for Farkran himself, i'd compromise on that if it's literally the only option but i would absolutely prefer just sparing Replica. a Farkran townflip is probably good information too, scumflip's obviously good, but this consistent choice to double down on Hectic being scum as a scum strategy seems like a ridiculous amount of effort and i don't really understand it. also players i clash with this heavily do tend to be town more often than scum, though that feels anecdotal.
if Amrun

is

scum i haven't really checked who it would be with.

i'm going back home today but i have mafia time this evening. i wish i'd had the thought earlier of scum being absolutely unable to hard bus today because someone did mention it much earlier, and i knew it, and for whatever reason only now did the thought occur to me that scum who cannot bus means you wagon the hell out of the game.

The same person who was attacking Farkran for the entirety of yesterday now suddenly will only vote him if it's "literally the only option". The same person who had Farkran as their only actual scumread and was waffling on Chemist the day before - the same person who very much wants to spare and not kill. This makes absolutely no sense from town!Chara's perspective - either Chara is willing to compromise with a HURT in which case it votes its strongest scumread she was attacking for the entire day before or it doesn't compromise and let's the wagon go through on either one of the Chemist/Farkran duo that it called "extremely obvious". But instead, it was the only that forced Amrun to move over off scum and onto town in order to save scum the game.

This is the smoking gun - this is the only post of anyone's that you should be reading today.

[Nachomamma8]

And I'm so glad I didn't get quickhammered in a pedit right there because that was a legitimate fear of mine for a second. But, I'm not doing the Day 4/Day 5 thing unless you really need it because ^that^ is the most important piece. If scum lost the game immediately by a Nacho or Fakran lynch then there's no fucking way that Farkran tunnels me the entire day and I disappear the entire day only to spend the entirety of the next day calling him town town town before actually lynching him Day 5 or whenever the hell that was when we lynched him - the risk/reward for towncred just straight up isn't worth it. Chara having an unexplained change of heart on Day 3 and just coincidentally being the most pivotal vote to save their chances of winning is something that just doesn't happen out of coincidence.

[Nachomamma8]

so please don't lose us the game because you haven't made it back in time because all the tools we need to win are in #2410. i'm not going to clog the thread up with anything else. i'll be doing chores elsewhere but I'll check periodically if you have questions.

[Chara]

I'll get you your "scummiest thing by Chara daily" when I'm back and reading the Farkran-Chara ISO, but the biggest red flag that I see with the benefit of hindsight bias is the passivity. While we were ripping each other apart yesterday, Chara was more hanging back instead of actually engaging. When we first transitioned to lynching instead of sparing, Chara was protesting, but it wasn't protesting in a significant way, just sort of a quiet voice in back that was still putting down kill votes it didn't particularly care for.

I also think the transition into today is strange; Chara hasn't really gotten the opportunity to post or engage because of real life stuff but it frames the decision coming into today as one that was made the second it came in the thread - I think that Chara is a paranoid person like you and I and I don't think that it would be comfortable making the decision without addressing the possibility of being wrong more than it has so far.

addressing the possibility of being wrong leads to a paranoia spiral for me more often than not. deciding to throw everything away late game has affected my play adversely previously, and i had already made the decision going in to this day that i would be voting you; it was only your approach to the day that made me waver and want to double check, which i did do.

[Chara]

alright.
i see the arguments for lynching today. i'm assuming they're sound, mechanics Chara is taking a nap at the moment.

pedit: why do we lynch me on a Nacho townflip?
i'd be happy to spare Replica if that's on the table.

why did you give up on taking the 4 SPARE route here?
did you think the people proposing lynching as optimal were town?
Farkran was one of them

i forget who else was, but i do know it was more than Farkran and Amrun (the latter of whom i did townread). i didn't give up, i still wanted a spare, but i was open to lynching if there was a player i was alright lynching, which there was, though it was wrong.

[Chara]

The same person who was attacking Farkran for the entirety of yesterday now suddenly will only vote him if it's "literally the only option". The same person who had Farkran as their only actual scumread and was waffling on Chemist the day before - the same person who very much wants to spare and not kill. This makes absolutely no sense from town!Chara's perspective - either Chara is willing to compromise with a HURT in which case it votes its strongest scumread she was attacking for the entire day before or it doesn't compromise and let's the wagon go through on either one of the Chemist/Farkran duo that it called "extremely obvious". But instead, it was the only that forced Amrun to move over off scum and onto town in order to save scum the game.

This is the smoking gun - this is the only post of anyone's that you should be reading today.

Farkran wasn't my strongest scumread at the time, a fact that's very obvious by the post you quoted. and portraying it as though i "suddenly" changed my mind as if i didn't spend a lot of time trying to come at the read from different angles, as well as having a really difficult time with my read on Farkran as a whole, is ignoring the actual circumstances in favour of making it seem like my progression was sudden or doesn't make sense. Chemist was my strongest scumread at the time, that's why that's where i put my hurt vote. my preference was sparing Replica and it always had been. i voted Chemist because i wanted a hurt vote down given deadline was coming up, and because it a hurt

did

go through i wanted it to be Chemist and not Fark, who i thought could be town for reasons i'm pretty sure i also explained, if not in that post then around the time.

[Hectic]

[Chara]

Chara doesn't have that bite when interacting with any other of its scumreads this game; fuck, I'm supposedly confirmed as scum to Chara here but it never quite addresses me with this confidence. I think that when Farkran replaced in, Chara saw its partner attacking the strongest town player in the game and going off the rails a bit so responded with some confirmation bias distancing. I don't think it's natural for a townie to be super confident about only scumread they had that was correct and then not really confident about any other push ever; town put themselves out there and get egg on their faces because they are so horribly and spectacularly wrong.

there's a pretty major difference between attacking someone you're pushing, who you're frustrated with, and attacking someone in lylo when you already know they're scum and so you don't need to worry about reading them anymore. and i know you know this.

it's also not at all accurate to say i

was

confident about Farkran scum, because i wasn't, i still wanted to spare, the read bothered me to the point i literally had to step away from even thinking about Farkran in order to do anything meaningful with the rest of the game. and i was confident in Amrun town, i was even confident in her being town day 4, but i was scared of being wrong, just as i was scared of being wrong on you.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh good.

[Chara]

And I'm so glad I didn't get quickhammered in a pedit right there because that was a legitimate fear of mine for a second. But, I'm not doing the Day 4/Day 5 thing unless you really need it because ^that^ is the most important piece. If scum lost the game immediately by a Nacho or Fakran lynch then there's no fucking way that Farkran tunnels me the entire day and I disappear the entire day only to spend the entirety of the next day calling him town town town before actually lynching him Day 5 or whenever the hell that was when we lynched him - the risk/reward for towncred just straight up isn't worth it. Chara having an unexplained change of heart on Day 3 and just coincidentally being the most pivotal vote to save their chances of winning is something that just doesn't happen out of coincidence.

your disappearing wasn't related to the game, you said that yourself, so you can't pretend that you would have somehow been more present had you been scum. pretty sure you were trying to deescalate you vs. Farkran so that you

wouldn't

have to bus, but then decided it was your best chance of victory. i don't think you played a clean game here, obviously, but your arguments keep boiling down to how as scum you would have constructed a better game, while also arguing that i as scum made all of these 'unexplained' decisions.

you still haven't explained why you decided to focus on Farkran when you did, for as

long

as you did, even with players like Replica asking you repeatedly to do something else besides towncase or case Farkran, and the excuse that "town does stupid things" sometimes really doesn't cut it. scum fucks up too. i'm sympathetic to RL giving you problems and i really don't think it's relevant to the game, but it doesn't translate to you being town because your scumgame should have been better than this.
and i do think scum you can come up with good reasons to towncase towny players, you just didn't this time. not an insult.

[Chara]

Chara unvotes Farkran eventually because it wants to focus on sparing you (fine, I understand), but there's never a reason for Chara to back down from the Farkran scumread.

this isn't the only instance, but using language like "suddenly, Chara does this" as though there's zero explanation anywhere, or denying that reasons exist outright, just shows you're constructing the best narrative to fit. there's literally the reason i was uncomfortable lynching Farkran in the gotcha post you quoted, and that's not the only time i talked about it.

[Hectic]

More gratuitous shade - there is nothing in my theory that i haven't been explaining solidly and properly, even if you believe i am wrong. Resorting to omgus-fossing when you are out of arguments is not the correct move.

HURT: Farkran

the solidity of your theory or the consistency of your explanation has little to do with your towniness. it does have everything to do with scum who try to be correct in order to avoid being caught in a contradiction.

it also doesn't make any sense if you scumread Replica to word it this way. it's like you're saying if town Replica should find your argument sound, when the point of what you're saying is that they're scum.
that's not quite exactly what i mean but i hope it comes across.

HEAL: Hectic

HURT: Farkran

Hectic, do you have any scumreads?

i also don't think we have enough yet. at least not a tight enough PoE that i'm willing to bet the game on it. more from alimdia/Nacho/Chemist slots would be good.

but i'm pretty confident about being able to reliably find town in the right environment. i just think it will be ruined or at least skewed if we collectively decide to only spare. i was thinking about playing this like coalition, but that was a game that i ended up being confident in exactly 0 townreads in due to the way it was set up.

HEAL: Replica
i'm disappointed that my preference is still what i started the day with except i'm not. this is objectively the right thing to do. Replica's town, nothing i've looked at has really changed that and my

only

problem with the slot is he goes for a Bingle spare every time before one on himself. but i understand why. also if he is scum then the whole frustration bit would i think have to be faked.

re: Farkran's last post i really don't think Replica has been anything near unpleasant. he just scumreads you. he's also been analyzing, you just disagree. and you're wrong too, given you have Hectic scum still and i find it really pointless to argue about that further either.

HURT: Chemist
i want to spare Replica, but if for some reason that's not happening this is the only hurt vote i'm making today. and i'm sorry but while he probably is town if this is right i'm not comfortable sparing Bingle. i'm actually not sure if a Bingle mispare or a Chemist mislynch is worse. probably a flip is better than no flip. Bingle is a vague townread based on his posting today which i've liked, and Chemist is poe + i think a struggle to produce genuine content.

Chemist/Farkran does seem extremely obvious. i didn't manage to really get a read on Nacho i'm happy with, but i think he could be badly absent scum with Chemist (though i feel like scum Nacho woud make more of an effort? but this is a guess i don't know him well, based on my impressions from this game and what other players have said). i could see absent scum Chemist a little better, and especially his last few posts feel like an attempt at content that is just... there, and leads to a Bingle/Nacho solve.
and if Farkran is scum i find it unlikely it's with Nacho. as for Farkran himself, i'd compromise on that if it's literally the only option but i would absolutely prefer just sparing Replica. a Farkran townflip is probably good information too, scumflip's obviously good, but this consistent choice to double down on Hectic being scum as a scum strategy seems like a ridiculous amount of effort and i don't really understand it. also players i clash with this heavily do tend to be town more often than scum, though that feels anecdotal.
if Amrun

is

scum i haven't really checked who it would be with.

i'm going back home today but i have mafia time this evening. i wish i'd had the thought earlier of scum being absolutely unable to hard bus today because someone did mention it much earlier, and i knew it, and for whatever reason only now did the thought occur to me that scum who cannot bus means you wagon the hell out of the game.

HOW_FARKRAN_WENT_FROM_YOUR_TOP_SCUMREAD_TO_NOT_BEING_A_FIGHT_CONSIDERATION. SUMMARISE_WHAT_HE_DID_THAT_MADE_YOU_RECONSIDER_IN_THAT_TIME_FRAME. please.

Is it just him doubling down on me being scum that you didn't see scum doing? Anything else?

[Nachomamma8]

current gamestate: i don't have the best sense of it honestly. i currently think we're sitting on two town spares and that both scum are in Nacho/Farkran/Chemist. if Amrun is scum she isn't trying to be spared and if Bingle is scum then i don't think Replica would be having quite as tough a time making that happen.
i'm aware going for mislynches is as valid a strategy, so no need to bring that up. reexamining Amrun is lower priority than Nacho but probably easier. Bingle and Amrun are never aligned but i imagine that's really obvious.

Funny how Chemist was your strongest scumread and became the only vote you would make and yet this post was not long before that post at all.

[Chara]

the only hurt vote i

wanted

to make. i wanted to spare Replica and i would have compromised to avoid NL.

[Nachomamma8]

"suddenly, Chara does this" as though there's zero explanation anywhere, or denying that reasons exist outright, just shows you're constructing the best narrative to fit. there's literally the reason i was uncomfortable lynching Farkran in the gotcha post you quoted, and that's not the only time i talked about it.

Suddenly, not suddenly, doesn't matter much, does it? Your focus is semantics to take away from my point that scum would have lost without your vote on Chemist. There's not a trackable progression in your posts to explain that vote on Chemist.