Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[the worst]

tfw Chara is actually Chara.

[Psyche]

chara wasn't a big surprise at all for me but farkran was
wouldve preferred the town stick to a spare strategy but oh well

[Alisae]

Yeah Nacho did better then I probably would have and watching this lylo was fun

[OkaPoka]

well played scum lords

[popsofctown]

I like Hectic's roleplay.

There are snatches of flavor in the scum PT and spared PT if those who were in those PTs choose not to redact or forbid. Still haven't heard from Chara and Sujimichi.

[popsofctown]

The royal scum pt: Here

[Chara]

this would have been a loss for us without Fark. the only reason i was able to churn out the posts and keep the interactions up was because of him and the sheer ridiculous amount of things he was pushing at 110% effort in the thread.

and thanks Amrun. i really had fun playing with you. hope we're on the same team next time.

[Alisae]

I too, also love Farkran

[Tammy]

Yeah Nacho did better then I probably would have and watching this lylo was fun

You should have come hung out with us in the dead thread!

[Alisae]

Yeah Nacho did better then I probably would have and watching this lylo was fun

You should have come hung out with us in the dead thread!

I wasn't really reading the game until LyLo
ur not wrong tho

[Amrun]

Farkran did a great job of distracting anyone from paying attention to you.

I don’t mind losing to coordinated scumplay. Well done, you two, seriously.

[Tammy]

Yeah Nacho did better then I probably would have and watching this lylo was fun

You should have come hung out with us in the dead thread!

I wasn't really reading the game until LyLo
ur not wrong tho

Me either! Just having fun spitballing reads when only reading a few posts here and there!

[popsofctown]

Farkran and Chara were kind of goodfellas really.

[the worst]

Farkran is a really exciting newbie. His enthusiasm and effort and skill as both alignments is really impressive.

Also haven't read the game yet but despite this plist being fairly stacked in general, i think chara/farkran have a TONNE of synergy as a scumteam

[Hectic]

i feel like hectic could roleplay better tbh

I got sloppy at the end, but that was because of the circumstances.

Okay, time to sleep. Fantastic game everyone!

[popsofctown]

Here is restored post2479, since peeking with the quote button doesn't do enough on its own because it has image tags I had to break:

HURT: Nacho

[SherlockHolmes]

GG

WP to the scumteam, ty for killing me N1

[SherlockHolmes]

Also @hectic that was a really tough lylo, bad luck

[SherlockHolmes]

I maintain that town should always fight on D1 and probably on D2 as well

[SherlockHolmes]

I don’t understand why people fought so hard in favour of sparing when that was just going to leave things more confused for the remaining players as the game went on due to lack of info revealed under their control, and scumteam was able to capitalise on that to have excellent positioning into the endgame

[SherlockHolmes]

In a final post made with the thread locked, I want to discuss SherlockHolmes' conduct in this game.
This was part of my ruleset for this game:

-snip-

SherlockHolmes' post about Sujimichi's scum PT post was clearly SherlockHolmes perceiving that Sujimichi had violated the rules of Undertale S Open and the web site by discussing the ongoing game Undertale S Open, listing it by omission as one of the game in which he had rolled town. That makes him a mandatory reporter to report rulebreaking conduct to the moderator as soon as he has noticed it, which he did not do. This is intuitive in life in general, if your cousin has 50$, passes Go and collects 400$ instead of 200$, but lands on your hotel on Baltic, and you notice, it is intuitive to everyone that it is wrong to collect 450$ from your cousin because this has benefited you.

Mandatory reporting is pervasive in site culture, which SherlockHolmes on his main account is ostensibly a part of.

-snip-

Even when cheating is innocuous, mafia has a very nasty side effect with it that "observant of the rules" does not relate to either the town or scum wincon, so public violations or soft violations of the rules in pursuing the town wincon can powerfully confirm a player as town.

-snip-.

SH does not seem particularly malicious in his conduct, but it's outside the lines of what I find acceptable. He is WOTM'ed from future games of this series, unless he apologies and promises that the "feeling of angleshooting" coincides with contacting the moderator in the future (

I would have contacted him, if I didn't figure it was probably a metaphor for a very cute diction tell or something

).

Sujimichi never violated any rules, because he did/would have simply make posts using the "ongoing games don't exist" style. This concept seemed more foreign to players in the thread the less they knew Sujimichi's personality, and the less they themselves multitable. I posted posts in that style about three times in scum PTs last year.

Just spotted this.

I’d like to touch on one or two things here:

(1) if sujimuchi did not break any rules, which is acknowledged, then I struggle to see how I did. To be clear, suji technically posted in a way that was consistent with the denial that his post was relevant to his alignment in any specific game. The interpretation of that post as being a genuine tone slip was exactly that: a perception, that was liable to being wrong. I am sure there have been cannier players who have used similar means to be falsely townfirmed via making similar posts as scum in more than one game. Had I believed that he had revealed his alignment beyond any doubt then I would see that as confirming his role in this game beyond any doubt and would have reported that to the moderator.

(2) I am unsure what the optimal thing to do is in this situation given the conflict between a general sense of “angleshooty” and the requirement to play to wincon. As part of playing to my wincon, I was metadiving to try to increase my ability to read other players, including looking at completed games. I found something that I thought was indicative of town!suji, and after seeing that I could not change my perception back to not seeing it. To not use that information in removing someone from my PoE seems to go directly against the idea of playing to my wincon; likewise, to not share that would be playing against wincon because it would allow for other players to incorrectly focus their energies on a townslot instead of looking for scum. To use an analogy from poker as oppsoed to monopoly, if one is playing for money and your opponent flashes their cards and you see, should you fold? I do not believe that you should, as it is down to your opponent to safeguard their cards from being seen accidentally. While physically removing their cards from them by force or stealth would be cheating, paying attention and using that information is a part of the game imo. This tied back to my belief that if what suji did was not a violation (and I don’t believe it was) then using that unconfirmed information should not be perceived as misconduct either. If angleshooting is not permitted, that should be made expressly clear, and there is a reason why a semantic distinction is made between “angleshooting” and “cheating”.

(3) On a purely personal level, I am sad that popsofctown chose not to message me privately about this either on this account or on my main, to discuss what she views as poor conduct on my part before posting here in what I must say feels rather akin to a public shaming. I am particularly saddened because I thought that popsofctown and I had at least a decent relationship on my main account and so I would have expected her to reach out, despite our occasional moments of friction in the past. I’m also a little hurt that she described me as only being “ostensibly” a part of site culture on my main given my level of presence on the site. I have bolded a part of the original post that I do not understand.

Overall, I am sorry that popsofctown believes that my play crossed the line into being unacceptable this game. I especially apologise if she believes I compromised the integrity of her game through my actions. And if I should wish to play another game of this series, I agree to contact her should I get a “feeling of angleshootyness”.

[SherlockHolmes]

I’d also like to note that I’m very happy to move to discussing this via PMs if you would like to do so pops, but I wanted to explain my actions to everyone else in the game, especially as I did not think I was doing anything wrong at the time of revealing the perspective slip and seeing your post was a surprise to me.

If you feel any discussion is better held publicly, that is of course fine too.

[popsofctown]

I would have preferred to discuss it privately, but I felt I had to justify giving the scum assistance in the scum PT and clarify that was not an action taken on a whim but one taken with deliberation.
I don't want to shame you, my verbosity was more to develop my thoughts than because I needed to lay it on.

I will PM you.

[popsofctown]

SherlockHolmes, you seem not to remember that you never outed your main in the notes PT, ostensibly meant "probably". I don't necessarily know that you don't have a main account that came from offsite, played one ms.net game, then made an alt. You're still SherlockHolmes to me as of now. I'm sure whatever account it is fully a part of the site.

[popsofctown]

Spared PT