BooneyToonz UPick: Boon There, Done That [END]

[jjh927]

I was just gonna post about how I'm not gonna be posting much today because I got the new stellaris dlc yesterday and played a lot of it and plan to do the same today

But I'm gonna say that lynching Vecna for role here is dumb.

Think about what he has actually claimed:
He has claimed a very specific negative for town
He has claimed all the details of that negative
It appears there is more to the role than he has claimed

Now, if you do some thinking, you will realise that the reason Vecna claimed the negatives is so that it minimises their impact and town can play around it. You would also realise he has no reason to claim any pro-town bits because that lets scum play around them.
Lynching him because "hurrdurr it's a scum role" is actually dumb, when town with negative utility is incentivised only to claim the actual anti-town bits so they can be played around.


Now, if you think he's scum by play, then I'm willing to argue against anyone on that. But please, go actually scumhunt rather than lynching based on Vecna claiming something he didn't have to claim at all, because it's hard for me to decide which of you are misguided and lazy and which of you are scum from this kind of push.

[jjh927]

Oh I wasn't aiming for the pagetop that's nice

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: BooneyTunzExpert

-Vecna said he'd not be posting till Monday/Tuesday so his "not answering" in the last 1 day is not scummy
-He's still likely town and feels like a comfortable spot to sit on instead of scumhunt
-I'm liking The Fonz
-Booneytunz asking a mechanics-strong player a mech question and then saying he

has

to TR him for the response:
-Booneytunz' recent pop-in bad
-Davesaz is also a good push

Can go into more details after a few hours.

[sore feet]

my stance is that lynching a low power/neg utility/possible 3p role d1 is still a good outcome town. its a boon game and its role madness, avoiding a lynch on a strong role leaves town better off.
particularly when the player in the slot:
- is putting zero effort into finding an alternative lynch to itself
- not engaging wrt use of its role
- not someone i trust vote correctly in lylo

not to speak for BTE.

[sore feet]

@conspire
insta claims are far more likely to come from town
if its a lie, that should become evident pretty quicky
if the role is real and a scum role then she's locked herself into playing full LAMIST mode with the role all game. why does scum do that?
town doesnt care because it doesnt change how they're going to play the role
she has claimed a loyal and disloyal mod - even if she's scum, we can have those given out to help town create a mechanical solve.
bad today lynch in any case.

[Vecna]

Im leading wagon. I probably shouldnt have signed up for this. I dont even feel a desire to fight this stuff

You people should listen to JJH and actually find some scum to lynch.

[Vecna]

ill continue to slack actually. Playing PoE is a lot more fun atm

[The Fonz]

my stance is that lynching a low power/neg utility/possible 3p role d1 is still a good outcome town. its a boon game and its role madness, avoiding a lynch on a strong role leaves town better off.
particularly when the player in the slot:
- is putting zero effort into finding an alternative lynch to itself
- not engaging wrt use of its role
- not someone i trust vote correctly in lylo

not to speak for BTE.

Yeah, I think you're wrong, but I can live with people who are either

A) Willing to openly policy lynch
B) Willing to put their neck on the line and say its a scum gambit.

My problem is with players who:

C) Say they agree with me that they think it's a trap role, designed to bait town into a harmful mislynch, but are OK with doing that mislynch anyway
D) Decide to vote the player after others express suspicion, when the reason they give for the vote was true

before

anyone else expressed suspicion.

[BooneyToonzExpert]

So your stance is that lynching Vecna is suboptimal but you're happy to do it anyway?

No, what I mean is I think you are right about any millerizing and its effect on that balance of the game. But I also don't think vecna would be a mislynch.

[BooneyToonzExpert]

VOTE: BooneyTunzExpert

-Vecna said he'd not be posting till Monday/Tuesday so his "not answering" in the last 1 day is not scummy

It's Wednesday.

[BooneyToonzExpert]

Im leading wagon. I probably shouldnt have signed up for this. I dont even feel a desire to fight this stuff

You people should listen to JJH and actually find some scum to lynch.

ill continue to slack actually. Playing PoE is a lot more fun atm

Mr. Scott,

Can you still defend this?

Always,

B. T. Expert III

[Boonskiies]

VC tonight

[Venus and Mars]

@Fonz and @chk? How tf am I a null to both of you here? What have I been doing that is even remotely different here than in the last game?

Players playing to meta are null. I haven't to the best of my recollection seen your scum game, but I have more respect for you than to think you'd behave so differently from your town game to town read you just for having a similar tone to prior games before I start getting flips and analyzing wagon dynamics.

While I’m extremely glad you respect me, the fact that I am playing similarly to last game, points solidly against my being scum here not the converse. I can get you links if you’re interested but okay.

[Venus and Mars]

So you're 100% okay with the game millerizing if he's being honest and losing to some strange cult-like 3rd party bullshit we won't be able to get ahead of if he's lying?

I'm just curious where your line is, Fonz.

I'm OK with the game millerizing. I suspect the game is balanced such that it will ultimately not matter too much, and that a single mislynch is more costly.

Well, that could be said about almost any slot, which was KK’s main reason for voting there. We obviously don’t want to mislynch, period and if there’s a slot extremely likely to flip scum, I’ll reconsider my vote but I am not confidently sr anyone and it would be a mistake to disregard the fact that this is a uPick and we all influenced the roles we received to some extent. Vecna claimed his role millerizes, he also claimed the recipients wouldn’t be informed of that but they already are, if what Vecna’s saying is correct.

[Venus and Mars]

I was just gonna post about how I'm not gonna be posting much today because I got the new stellaris dlc yesterday and played a lot of it and plan to do the same today

But I'm gonna say that lynching Vecna for role here is dumb.

Think about what he has actually claimed:
He has claimed a very specific negative for town
He has claimed all the details of that negative
It appears there is more to the role than he has claimed

Now, if you do some thinking, you will realise that the reason Vecna claimed the negatives is so that it minimises their impact and town can play around it. You would also realise he has no reason to claim any pro-town bits because that lets scum play around them.
Lynching him because "hurrdurr it's a scum role" is actually dumb, when town with negative utility is incentivised only to claim the actual anti-town bits so they can be played around.


Now, if you think he's scum by play, then I'm willing to argue against anyone on that. But please, go actually scumhunt rather than lynching based on Vecna claiming something he didn't have to claim at all, because it's hard for me to decide which of you are misguided and lazy and which of you are scum from this kind of push.

my stance is that lynching a low power/neg utility/possible 3p role d1 is still a good outcome town. its a boon game and its role madness, avoiding a lynch on a strong role leaves town better off.
particularly when the player in the slot:
- is putting zero effort into finding an alternative lynch to itself
- not engaging wrt use of its role
- not someone i trust vote correctly in lylo

not to speak for BTE.

Either Vecna’s role is dangerous to town or it isn’t. I’m really not sure which to believe. All I can see is that Vecna isn’t doing enough to help guard against his role being potentially harmful, that and we really don’t have a more confident alternative atp.

[Venus and Mars]

Im leading wagon. I probably shouldnt have signed up for this. I dont even feel a desire to fight this stuff

You people should listen to JJH and actually find some scum to lynch.

I have a much better idea. Why don’t you actually answer our questions and tell us who YOU think is scum here?

[Venus and Mars]

ill continue to slack actually. Playing PoE is a lot more fun atm

You’re really not doing yourself any favours with this.

[Venus and Mars]

I get it. Tbf, the last Boon game kind of shitcanned that part of me that wanted to FATE all over everything. Getting bombed when you're obviously fucking town will do that to a guy. Sprinkle in bad game after bad game (sitting back on bad reads and pushing the wrong ones) it's kind of time to switch gears. Took a month to get my shit together IRL and I think I'm at a place where I can just... play.

Mistakes were made

~Venus

[Kakeguri Addicts]

Back. No real new insights. I guess nothing I've seen from Dave precludes scum. Happy there's a George wagon.

I don't like reasoning like what you're using on Dave here.

Would you be able to explain why you get that vibe in some amount of detail?

It's a combination of cosmic seeming relaxed, and seeing the game the same way I do. Then the admittedly slightly forced push on chkflip looks like someone trying to get shit done without any strong pings to go off.

I guess that's fair.

Because I'm a highly skilled player with over 3 town wins under my belt. If I don't have a solve, you have my permission to give me a menacing glare.

-Cosmic

Wow, over 3 town wins? I didn't know we were dealing with a pro.

my own role has a modifier whose in game effect is explicitly unknown

That is interesting.

Vecna's weird claim is +town. Easily provable, and doubtful scum is transparent about such a powerful role which messes with investigatives like that.

Yeah I agree with this -- I know we voted them, that was probably the wrong move, even with his virus spreading -- I'd rather play around it than lynch someone I think is town.

flashtake on Mechanic?

-K

Probably gonna vote Mechanic depending on nom's response. The fact that Titus's post is the only thing that stood out to them at the time is weird.

What is weird about that? And why do you think they are vote worthy?

VOTE: Vecna

Not 100% sure I agree with this policy lynch given who is pushing it but I can't refute the logic behind it either. Therefore, Drunk Titus will plug her nose and vote.

Hmm this is a weird sheep. Who do you not like that is pushing it?

My gut says Auro isn't town but no one will tell me why he is.

This is fair.

Town

Jjh927, Venus and Mars
Krazy Katz, Auro

Null:

Vecna, Titus, Sore feet, Mechanic, The Fonz, Conspire, BooneyToonzExpert, Davesaz, Chronos
Chkflip, Kakeguri Addicts
nomnomnom

Scum

The lucky 4 gets a "nice" from me in a consecutive post

I'm particularly interested in this

Townreads are 4 of the 5 top posters

Scum agenda or human nature? I find that town does this all the time.

VOTE: mechanic

-x

I think this vote is lazy and doesn't make sense withotu seeing more from Mechanic.

I read this multiple times and I just have to TR this slot.. It feels like it has copy and paste potential like that Scummies post award.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

What's the Mechanic wagon about? Activity?

His catch-up post was lackluster. The fact that Titus's post was the only thing he brought up to scumread, and that he's parking his vote on Titus is something to push him for.

Plus, if his opinion has changed then we'd still like his insight on current events.

This is really weak.

I wouldn't exactly classify it as parking if he hasn't made a post after the vote, or been here in 10+ pages, but I get what you're saying. I will say that Vecna has completely avoided posting anything more than a prodge since his wagon picked up and that's telling to me. I don't have meta with him to back that up one way or the other, but it's worth noting imo. I will say that I hadn't noticed Fonz claiming unknown bullshit in his PM, though, so that did rock my boat if even slightly. Still don't want a virus in the game but I'm a little more willing to let the unknown bit slide than I was previously.

Good point about Vecna avoiding posting.

Girl bye you were way more of a front in the last Boon game and in this one you're riding on "I'm TrAsH dAy OnE" and doing fuck all. I don't have the time or energy to sort 16 people D1. Your slot, being a renegade of all things, will likely figure itself out. But if you want to do more than fucking shade me all day then square up.

Just because you don't like my conclusion doesn't make it "fuck all". You claim you don't have the energy to sort 16 people. Great. Neither do I. However, you should sort the one person you've been saying you would and sort me with integrity and respect. You've done neither.

I have come to conclusions and postulated theories. These theories were just as decried as bad in the last Boon game. Lesser discussed theory was there was something off in RCE/BEF.

Someday, I'll convince people to join me but your push on me is far from genuine. Whether its hold over from the boon game or your red role pm, you decided you'd shade me rather than sort me from go. Otherwise, you'd have a read by now and either agree with Nancy or fight her.

Yet, you don't want to fight Nancy or call me the town I am. So you dicker with your head between your legs coasting and stalling. Nancy is hard to go to to toe with bc the AtE. Calling me town means you'd have to work with me, admit you wasted time, and eat humble pie. The latter risks derailing Vecna.

So yeah, I don't trust you. Pick a read on me.

I don't want to vote for Titus today, that feeling is conflicted though. This post seems like it's coming from town, though.

VOTE: Vecna
I keep thinking about how improbable it is that his role is town. I think a wagon here will be very revealing no matter who the day's lynch ends up being.

I don't like this post or your previous posting

VOTE: davesaz

What will the wagon reveal?

Unvote, vote Davesaz

Timing of that is SUPER suspect, Dave. You've had all game to vote Vecna based off his claim, and now you're doing it at a point when the anti Vecna sentiment is swelling based on lacklustre recent play? Without actually being willing to call that play scummy? In fact distancing yourself from your vote in the same paragraph you make it by claiming that it's for information and you're not committed to lynching him.

This is a cool post.

---

Other thoughts:

Chronos seems pretty town to me.
Vecna not having energy to fight a wagon doesn't make them more likely to be mafia.
We will be posting more frequently now that the game is getting, and I (Yumeko) will be going more in depth as well.

---

-Yumeko

[Venus and Mars]

we been thru too much shit at htis opint

"htis"
"opint"

Look at how Krazy managed to invert the first two letters in CONSECUTIVE words.
He's clearly trying to signal something to his scumpartners by cleverly disguising typos in his ""drunk"" posting.

Flash lynch him and then give me my paragon nom pronto. Thanks and see you.

Yup pretty obviously at that.

See how he said thru instead of through as well. I ma guessing u is more u guys.

the t is propably a hint that he is a traitor that why the t is in the middle of this. To show he is hiding in plain sight.

As for the P, it's is pretty obvious as well. Posting. In full he is saying.

You guys I am traitor posting. Case closed. We got him.

[Venus and Mars]

we been thru too much shit at htis opint

"htis"
"opint"

Look at how Krazy managed to invert the first two letters in CONSECUTIVE words.
He's clearly trying to signal something to his scumpartners by cleverly disguising typos in his ""drunk"" posting.

Flash lynch him and then give me my paragon nom pronto. Thanks and see you.

Yup pretty obviously at that.

See how he said thru instead of through as well. I ma guessing u is more u guys.

the t is propably a hint that he is a traitor that why the t is in the middle of this. To show he is hiding in plain sight.

As for the P, it's is pretty obvious as well. Posting. In full he is saying.

You guys I am traitor posting. Case closed. We got him.

~Venus

[Venus and Mars]

I get it. Tbf, the last Boon game kind of shitcanned that part of me that wanted to FATE all over everything. Getting bombed when you're obviously fucking town will do that to a guy. Sprinkle in bad game after bad game (sitting back on bad reads and pushing the wrong ones) it's kind of time to switch gears. Took a month to get my shit together IRL and I think I'm at a place where I can just... play.

Mistakes were made

~Venus

One thing I learned was not to succumb to pressure to prematurely claim and more often than not - as it was in that case - scum rolefishing us.

[Venus and Mars]

we been thru too much shit at htis opint

"htis"
"opint"

Look at how Krazy managed to invert the first two letters in CONSECUTIVE words.
He's clearly trying to signal something to his scumpartners by cleverly disguising typos in his ""drunk"" posting.

Flash lynch him and then give me my paragon nom pronto. Thanks and see you.

Yup pretty obviously at that.

See how he said thru instead of through as well. I ma guessing u is more u guys.

the t is propably a hint that he is a traitor that why the t is in the middle of this. To show he is hiding in plain sight.

As for the P, it's is pretty obvious as well. Posting. In full he is saying.

You guys I am traitor posting. Case closed. We got him.

~Venus

[Venus and Mars]

@Boon, has Mechanic been prodded yet?

To all of the people who aren’t concerned about Vecna’s role nor his lack of further commentary on it, how do you think the negative utility aspect of it, will be balanced? If he hardclaimed sticky fruit vendor, that would then be an easy solution, because Titus’ role could either neutralize it or possibly even turn it into a protown role but if it’s actual viruses Vecna is spreading, than I don’t think Titus’ role works on that.

[Chronos]

To all of the people who aren’t concerned about Vecna’s role nor his lack of further commentary on it, how do you think the negative utility aspect of it, will be balanced?

Town KP to compensate for faulty investigative results