Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Wooper]

I can say what I think pinged me about Titus as town on d1 tho but that's not a towncase

bring it

still w8ing on this btw

believe it or not typing is not instantaneous

may have been throwing too many things at once earlier - i'll wait.

[Wooper]

wooper's log
stardate 0, 5 minutes or so



menalque still lost in titus' iso
fear he may be dead
or worse...
... infected with covid-19
going to play runescape 4 a bit

[Menalque]

all of this is +town for Titus imo

I'm really trying to move away from cases because I think they're generally unhelpful to town and beneficial to scum but we're kind of there anyway

Okay, I read what I had missed.

Titus changing her vote is NAI.
LunarRest using the word "mafioso" in that one post is NAI as well.

@Titus: What's your opinion on the reaction some people have to your change of vote?

I'm ok tentatively placing you as town based on the top post.

The discussion around me and my vote change is awkward and stilted. A few slots say the same thing and get nowhere but NAI, essentially repeating what came before.

What's absent is more telling. Everyone wants to know why my gut was strong enough, yet no one looked at Phi's behavior. It's not enough to make a strong case out of, but it's still interesting. Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opening sequence.

Mod: I voted Phi not Phoenix.

Fixed, thank you --P

I like her TRing pho but tentatively there. I think that's a non-informed mindset and I had similar thoughts

Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opening sequence.

I mean, given that your statement is based on 2 random filler RVS posts with no substance to them, as one could expect from very early posts, of course, isn't it a little far-fetched to say that?

No. It's farfetched to lock him as scum based off of that. To feel the ignorance of the wagon and discussion of food is an artificial distraction is not. Scum love to distract. It's a good place to start none the less. Plus, the sooner we escape RVS the better.

I liked all of this. not exaggerating read confidence or trying to get other people to lock him in as scum. trying to get out of RVS. trying to put focus on a common scum move which works against scum!her

H

ow is this misunderstanding happening with a player who has a join date older than mine unless it is a perspective slip?

I'm not sure on this and I kinda want backup.

I think this frustration reads as town. also, actually, the seeking of clarification from others on if her perception of it is accurate. I think it's very strange for you in particular to not see this as town!indicative

TSE, I guess you're on translation duty.

Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest.

I think Scum!QQ means Scum!Titus
And Titus is coaching QQ.

Go ahead and elaborate. I would never coach someone to be that obtuse ever. I also oddly don't think QQ is scum independent of my theory. I just think it helps to lay out the groundwork of even bad theories so faulty premises can be corrected.

Why do you think QQ scum means I am coaching him? Do you think QQ is scum or not? Why would I coach someone to post word salad in a newbie game, when that would likely lead to them getting lynched?

all these questions felt like they had a point and were from the perspective of needing more information that she didn't have, ie they indicate that she's uninformed ie town

Right now, yes.

VOTE: Karnage

Theory, Karnage Cheeky scumteam

can you show examples of "good cop"/"bad cop" from before 94?

Sure, although I'm phoning in post numbers on Cheeky.

Cheeky immediately votes me for breaking RVS. Breaking RVS is usually a good thing. So why would experienced town vote me for that? Cheeky has had that hostile attitude since go

. Hence, Cheeky bad cop.

Your 64 is good cop. You're supposing I'm town and have players sucking up to me. This can interfere with natural town blocks. You starting from the supposition that I'm town and working outwards is good cop. You shouldn't know, at this point, that I am town.

I strongly agree that cheeky!duck is scum and this is part of the reason why, so mindmelding

@Cheeky, I have a theory I'm looking to test. If something changes my mind on that, I'll let you know.

Second, it is early so I am open to being wrong. That doesn't mean I'm open to baseless attacks for being protown.

You know based on my meta that I am stronger in later days too. You're perfectly free to ignore any theory you find baseless and scumhunt, if you're capable.

being very reasonable and trying to make sure the gamestate stays manageable / positive

@LL, I like your entry.

Can you elaborate on why Cheeky is town? I don't see it.

again, I think this is Titus checking for bias in her own reads and I think you should see it in particular as town!indicative

LL, I think your headstrong nature is doing you no favors. Your extreme confidence that only your way is correct, combined with your impatience give you a salesman type vibe at best. Your attitude is hostile and doesn't encourage people to talk or reveal who their partners may be. Your tactic might work on debate.org but not here.

If you're so sure scum is in your pool, see what mislynches scum go for and why. How people interact with each other shows their priorities.

again, dealing with LL almost in too good faith. there's a simpler explanation for his overconfidence, which is that he's scum and faking it. I think this is town misreading scum fake confidence, but also trying to reason with them to stop that overconfidence poisoning thread

[Menalque]

but yeah, I think cases are generally harmful to gamestate and I'd like to not get too hung up on point-by-point ironing out of the details

it just bores everyone other than the two people involved in it (+scum) and I don't think that it actually increases the odds of being correct

[Menalque]

I especially think that given that it's me and you know that I tend to get over-emotional when being pushed, you would be trying - if town - to avoid that outcome and to work with me

i think u kno my approach to being scumread (it's either bloody stupid, in which case it's probs scum or rly dumb town; OR it's a compliment that someone thinks i'm capable of ___ as scum / thinks they can make me look capable enough to have done ___ as scum)
i'll put this aside
liek
you get emotional and post a lot in realtime
why would i not make an attempt to pressure u so that u feel compelled to post in realtime and try to develop ur reads and watch how ur reads change

like you as either alignment can pop in with "my reads off pg 2 are {a, b, c}

im melanque.

vote: b"
you as scum sincerely struggle to fake a trajectory in realtime
ur TONE feels the same but ur content struggles hard
and that is how i see ur alignment

like you're suggesting i'm not town because i'm doing everythin in my power 2 strongarm u into produing alignment indicative content when ur in my PoE but i'm not reeaally confident on my read on your preds

the fuck?

okay, that's actually quite a fair approach

what is your conclusion then?

[Menalque]

I think you're probably overestimating my difficulties in faking trajectories in games for future reference tho btw

[Menalque]

@crush @ceejay interested in joining me on wooper?

Need to reread Wooper ISO with your comments in mind before I do that, because right now I don't think Wooper is the place to go.

okay, where do you wanna go then?

[Wooper]

sure i don't want the game flooded in cases at ALL but u have been feelin tonally far 2 confident on town!titus and i think it was incredibly appropriate 2 drag that outta u

for the most part i generally agree except i think ur kinda ignoring the parts of d1 where she felt kinda schketchy which makes ur case feel like you already know titus' alignment but i also think i'm gonna benefit from giving this another read after a sleep


kinda struggle with you loving titus' super early game yet her being in your PoE pool in your third post.

pedit: this is like, the most scummy i've ever seen you

[Menalque]

the Lynch today should be in Titus and wooper for reasons

[Wooper]

aware i underestimate your scum skillset (i've lurked some of ur games to check myself after Alisae v. Pine & stuff) but your trajectories as town are stubborn yet believable; ur trajectories as scum are either nonexistent or outlandish and ur

i'm menalque.

moments don't feeeellll as deserved

ur also usually lower pressure as scum but i don't think that's a very valuable tell here

[Menalque]

sure i don't want the game flooded in cases at ALL but u have been feelin tonally far 2 confident on town!titus and i think it was incredibly appropriate 2 drag that outta u

for the most part i generally agree except i think ur kinda ignoring the parts of d1 where she felt kinda schketchy which makes ur case feel like you already know titus' alignment but i also think i'm gonna benefit from giving this another read after a sleep


kinda struggle with you loving titus' super early game yet her being in your PoE pool in your third post.

pedit:

this is like, the most scummy i've ever seen you

she's in my PoE pool because I'm locktown on ceejay and crush and therefore everyone else is PoE'd

re: bolded -- pretty good sign I'm town then hey

[Menalque]

aware i underestimate your scum skillset (i've lurked some of ur games to check myself after Alisae v. Pine & stuff) but your trajectories as town are stubborn yet believable; ur trajectories as scum are either nonexistent or outlandish and ur

i'm menalque.

moments don't feeeellll as deserved

ur also usually lower pressure as scum but i don't think that's a very valuable tell here

so I'm (1) stubbornly pushing for your Lynch

(2) super high pressure here

(3) looking scummy

and you're not TRing me ?

[Menalque]

I have got a lot better at increasing my WIM in scum games tbf

[Menalque]

do you wanna check my sig for a second

[Wooper]

[quote="In post 958, Menalque"][/quote]
don't try to force a t/t dichotomy my dude.
i am also not keen on titus goin thru today; if we mislynch me 2day i think ur always tomorrow's lynch which gets us down to f3
if we mislynch someone else like titus isn't gonna steer and power over f5 but i thinkkkk we'll b able to solve for her partner
if we hit red today then we'll be able to sort for partners, and titus only looks aligned with a few people in the game

so like titus isn't the right lynch here

[Menalque]

Also, what's your read on Menalque?

@homura around here why no comments on me?

[Menalque]

Let’s put it this way: there are enough people townreading you that I’m not really interested in brute forcing your lynch over all else because I’m not confident enough that I’m right and they’re all wrong. THAT SAID I do feel v good about wooper!scum (admittedly mostly based on cheeky’s play > his direct play) and am willing to push that pretty hard, and if he does flip scum then I will be lynching you tomorrow literally 100% of the time if I’m still alive

What about Wooper's direct play was scummy, Mena?

oh, I missed this one

it's not wooper so much as cheeky

I'm not sure that I SR wooper on his direct play before I rep in and he starts positioning to get me lynched

[Menalque]

don't try to force a t/t dichotomy my dude.
i am also not keen on titus goin thru today; if we mislynch me 2day i think ur always tomorrow's lynch which gets us down to f3
if we mislynch someone else like titus isn't gonna steer and power over f5 but i thinkkkk we'll b able to solve for her partner
if we hit red today then we'll be able to sort for partners, and titus only looks aligned with a few people in the game

so like titus isn't the right lynch here

okay fuckit, we're going into this

we're lynching in you two because you're both hard softing TPR and there's only one left

which means if there is a TPR left then the other one is scum setting up for a 1v1 fakecliam tomorrow

[Wooper]

aware i underestimate your scum skillset (i've lurked some of ur games to check myself after Alisae v. Pine & stuff) but your trajectories as town are stubborn yet believable; ur trajectories as scum are either nonexistent or outlandish and ur

i'm menalque.

moments don't feeeellll as deserved

ur also usually lower pressure as scum but i don't think that's a very valuable tell here

so I'm (1) stubbornly pushing for your Lynch

(2) super high pressure here

(3) looking scummy

and you're not TRing me ?

(1) ur push on me doesn't feel headstrong stubborn and correct like your pushes do when ur town. ur literally scrambling to find responses 2 me and they feel paperthin. it feels like you're tryin to mislynch me but i am really strugglin to believe this is actually a read you have with reasons for having this read which you have.

(2) - you're like very low pressure compared to our last game lol (which is actually a good thing for gamestate but w/e)
- it's 7p in a micro which distorts the value of Pressure tells because it's very easy to be proportionately higher pressure than 6 other people in a newbie game
- you've been v/la
^^^ as i said, i am not leaning on this tell it's too flimsy

(3) uh
yeah
sorry
you read scummy as scum

[Menalque]

VOTE: wooper
VOTE: wooper
VOTE: wooper
VOTE: wooper
VOTE: wooper

[Wooper]

don't try to force a t/t dichotomy my dude.
i am also not keen on titus goin thru today; if we mislynch me 2day i think ur always tomorrow's lynch which gets us down to f3
if we mislynch someone else like titus isn't gonna steer and power over f5 but i thinkkkk we'll b able to solve for her partner
if we hit red today then we'll be able to sort for partners, and titus only looks aligned with a few people in the game

so like titus isn't the right lynch here

okay fuckit, we're going into this

we're lynching in you two because you're both hard softing TPR and there's only one left

which means if there is a TPR left then the other one is scum setting up for a 1v1 fakecliam tomorrow

i'm not softing tpr and neither is titus lmfao
if there's another tpr it's not me, and it's not titus, and they're not at risk of getting lynched today

like sit down

[Wooper]

have you finished your catchup?

[Menalque]

aware i underestimate your scum skillset (i've lurked some of ur games to check myself after Alisae v. Pine & stuff) but your trajectories as town are stubborn yet believable; ur trajectories as scum are either nonexistent or outlandish and ur

i'm menalque.

moments don't feeeellll as deserved

ur also usually lower pressure as scum but i don't think that's a very valuable tell here

so I'm (1) stubbornly pushing for your Lynch

(2) super high pressure here

(3) looking scummy

and you're not TRing me ?

(1) ur push on me doesn't feel headstrong stubborn and correct like your pushes do when ur town. ur literally scrambling to find responses 2 me and they feel paperthin. it feels like you're tryin to mislynch me but i am really strugglin to believe this is actually a read you have with reasons for having this read which you have.

(2) - you're like very low pressure compared to our last game lol (which is actually a good thing for gamestate but w/e)
- it's 7p in a micro which distorts the value of Pressure tells because it's very easy to be proportionately higher pressure than 6 other people in a newbie game
- you've been v/la
^^^ as i said, i am not leaning on this tell it's too flimsy

(3) uh
yeah
sorry
you read scummy as scum

I'm not scrambling at all dude, and I don't think you in good faith sees this as me scrambling

response on 2 is good

and er, actually I normally don't, I think one of the best ways of catching scum!me is how TR I am

[Menalque]

have you finished your catchup?

kinda still working through it but trying to take advantage of having you here directly

[Menalque]

I think we really should flip you today but if we don't and you consider me town who is scum?