Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Wooper]

there's like a Very Big reason why we explicitly should NOT out the tpr
just for the record i'm probably the best tpr hunter in this list
i normally advocate for massclaim d2-sometimes d3 depending on Things
and i've made a very conscious decision to push massclaim to d3-d4

if you've caught up and paid attention to the way people are interacting you'd probably have worked something out

[Wooper]

and er, actually I normally don't, I think one of the best ways of catching scum!me is how TR I am

different strokes...? i'm finding u easier to read in games i'm following

I think we really should flip you today but if we don't and you consider me town who is scum?

i think crush is scum and has highest partner equity with u
titus has someeeeee partner equity with you, but that's sortable later
cjv or ll are the slots i'd revisit next tbh but i'm bluntly not seeing a reason to rn

[Wooper]

it's a bit late here and i'm kinda wanting to do other stuff to calm down then sleep
can we finish up pretty soon?

974 feels like an olive branch so i'll try to reread this with an open mind tmrw but you just don't feel like town rn and i'm concerned this convo won't go anywhere but Further Down The Toilet

[Wooper]

idk if it helps clarify a lot but i think the way you've handled cheeky/me has probably been the strongest scum indicator i'm seeing

like town!cheeky is explicitly, almost intentionally jarring. she plays vs. gamestate and isn't in it to make friends. sometimes she plays hard, sometimes she holds her cards close to her chest - that's not a useful alignment tell. scum!cheeky is a lot sweeter and more likeable and makes an effort to play to the gamestate & hide behind bigger players. the way you're representing her meta here is completely backwards. but she IS a jarring player so it's not difficult to pick up posts of her from 30 pages ago and go "hey guys isn't this sO sCuMmY? let's lynch it"

you still haven't explained what u actually think scum!Cheeky/scum!wooper are doing

yet everything i'm posting is sO sCuMmY and u really think we need to lynch me based on my predecessor's contributions like 34 pages ago

it's not a real read and it's slimy :c

[Wooper]

tl;dr
yes cheeky can be vexing
yes it's easy to get votes on cheeky
your meta read on her is off fucking base
you're not actually analysing our slot
your read is stuck 34 pages ago, with a sprinkling of reacting to everything i'm posting like i'm sO sCuMmY

like you might get this lynch thru, suer, i'm not super interested in fighting any harder than i feel against bein mislynched these days

but ur not convincing me ur misreading me; it feels like u just want me dead

[Wooper]

tfw tl;dr 2/3 length of original rant

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.10

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Wooper

(2): Titus, Menalque

Menalque

(1): Wooper

Not Voting

(4): Crush, LuckyLuciano, Homura, ceejayvinoya

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-22 19:00:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Menalque]

I'm still not understanding why you're stuck on this point, Titus. Karnage was the compromise lynch because he was the secondmost scumread. You actually led the wagon on Karnage, but now you're hung up on why everyone else agreed with you. If you wanted Cheeky or Luciano as the compromise deadline lynch over Karnage, why didn't you vote one of them intead?

Because this is making me feel you knew Karnage would flip green and wanted to cast shade on both of your scumreads for not being wagoned.

Am I misunderstanding your intentions here?

I totally disagree that cheeky THIS GAME is being vexing as opposed to appeasing

I think cheeky THIS GAME was intentionally trying to play nice and get people on side. which you yourself would admit is scum behaviour from her, only you're trying to argue that I'm scum reading her for being scummy when it's almost the opposite?

I think cheeky would be hard to push for being scummy which is exactly why I think she is scummy

if I'm not as interested in reading you, it's because I think your slot, which you share the alignment of, has already been insanely scummy. why would I spend a lot of time trying to sort you directly especially when if given half the chance you would pocket me. added to the fact that I don't think you're engaging me in particularly good faith. I'm trying to parse things because I'm still hoping we Lynch you today bc on the off chance it's wrong then lynching you tomorrow would just lose the game, but I would wanna see why your head was at where it was it today if you flipped town

[LuckyLuciano]

like i can exactly see that being talked about in the scum pt
that is why he would remember a random ass post like that
but the fact he came here pointing it out but pretending not to have any thoughts about it?

ugh i just realised i'm fighting you about your own slot's alignment
i think it's slimy that he pointed it out but pretended not to have any thoughts about it
i think his actual *thoughts* r what u save for the scum pt, not noticing it in the first place

I mean why does he comment like that

like why bring up very specifically what the change is but not the fact that it spells out mason

112

Let's bring up very specifically what the change is, and the fact that it spells out "n o c m", or no claim. Where drugs did you take before reading that to see mason?

[Titus]

there's like a Very Big reason why we explicitly should NOT out the tpr
just for the record i'm probably the best tpr hunter in this list
i normally advocate for massclaim d2-sometimes d3 depending on Things
and i've made a very conscious decision to push massclaim to d3-d4

if you've caught up and paid attention to the way people are interacting you'd probably have worked something out

Wooper, you're really shorting your utility here

[LuckyLuciano]

there's like a Very Big reason why we explicitly should NOT out the tpr
just for the record i'm probably the best tpr hunter in this list
i normally advocate for massclaim d2-sometimes d3 depending on Things
and i've made a very conscious decision to push massclaim to d3-d4

if you've caught up and paid attention to the way people are interacting you'd probably have worked something out

Wooper, you're really shorting your utility here

What do you mean by this?

[Homura]

what I said was that the story of how LL is presenting those reads does not make sense nor do his actions if those reads are that strong

if LL on D1 was super confident in phoenix scum (he was) then that confidence should have been shaken by being wrong (it wasn't) but given that it wasn't then he should still be arrogantly overconfident in his wrongness (he is) in which case he doesn't need to sort the other slots he just needs them to vote for scum (he was trying to look like he wanted to sort them)

that story does not make sense from a town mindset

@Luciano, can I hear your thoughts on this?

[LuckyLuciano]

Why would my confidence be shaken? I don't care if I end up being wrong. I find things to focus in on, I take them to their extreme, and I see what happens. That's my style. I don't plan on solving the game on my own. This is a team game, the input of other players is valuable. I don't find treading around carefully and withholding my thoughts because I might be wrong to be conducive to winning. I'd rather make cases and possibly push people a bit past their comfort zone and let other people be the judge of the interaction than try and be the judge jury and executioner all on my own.

[Homura]

Do you agree that reads don't get pushed if the player pushing them falters on those reads?

[LuckyLuciano]

That might be the case for some people, but I don't believe it should be. If you believe in a point somebody is making, them changing their mind - absent reason for them to change their mind that you find persuasive as well - you should still believe in the point that was made.

[LuckyLuciano]

I still think it can be telling, however, when people drop a case I push just because I drop it. Is a player trying to find scum, or are they just sheeping me?

[Homura]

I worded it poorly. Apologies. I meant to ask if you agree that a player who does not exhibit confidence on their reads cannot truly push them.

[LuckyLuciano]

That depends on the player. Because of the way I take my reads to their extreme and see where it goes, if I just casually scumread someone without much effort, I doubt people would pay it much of a glance. Some players are very subtle with their analysis and can push a read without showing any signs of high or low confidence.

What does this convo help you with?

[Homura]

I ask because I have played with players in the past who fake or force confidence in their reads in order to guide a push as town. I had the impression that you were such a player, and that your overconfidence was not scum-indicative as Menalque believes it to be.

[LuckyLuciano]

A better way of understanding my pushes is that I don't really think about whether my reads are right or wrong. Like I said, I take things that stand out to me and stretch them as far as I can within reason. This gives the town, as a collective, something to talk about and other players will tell me if I'm right or wrong, and give hints to their own alignment in doing so. I play this as a team game.

[Homura]

I agree. You are town.

[LuckyLuciano]

Cool, have you heard what you need to from Mena?

[Homura]

Going through them.

Mafia really inflates my browser's tabs.

[Homura]

Feel free to talk while we're both here, though. I prefer engaging in real time over combing pages of wallposts.

General thoughts on the Menalque-Wooper interaction?

[LuckyLuciano]

Tbh, I need to go back and reread it. I kinda just skimmed it and quoted the part that jumped out to me. 983. I'm interested in Menalque's response to this. Either I'm blind or he's blatantly lying and hoping people don't fact check.