Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[Karnage]

Vote Count 1.10

Marashu (3) ~

skitter30, Menalque, Datisi,

Datisi (1) ~

team rocket queen,

clidd (1) ~

word321,

Not voting (4) ~

Marashu, GeneralWu, Maduisha, clidd,

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-03-27 19:08:54)

V/LA:

• skitter30 - Fridays and Saturdays

[GeneralWu]

please elaborate because i really don't see what was towny about it

and like he later on has this post:

i think i'm going to ignore pressure as best as i can

Dat's explosion aside, I find skitt's interaction around this post interesting. Skitt asks whether or not to apply pressure, then asks if Dat needs a chance to towntell, then puts on pressure while Dat is exploding, then unvotes to remove pressure.

@clidd: last I saw you had a townlean on Wu. Why are you suddenly cautious about him specifically?

@trq: why is your entire case on dat is based on joke votes and other games? Especially after you pushed to move away from joke votes. Has anything else from this game stood out?

which is again nothing but more questions, i'm p sure i asked somewhere why did he ask the questions he did, no response, the first paragraph is lit nothing, and once skitt questioned him about it he also doesn't respond

so

why are you all of a sudden towncasing him?

The first paragraph of hist post was towny because it shows he has genuinely thought stuff over.

also while asking questions and not doing anything about them might not be that good, I don't think it's lynchworthy.
you could also ask questions but keep the answers in your head till later, so you don't necessarily have to respond to every question of yours that other people answer.

I'm towncasing him because you guys are voting him and I don't think he deserves to be lynched, at least not right now.
if, for instance, he keeps asking questions but not doing anything about them, that could be scummy. But that has to continue for a while before I would consider it scummy. Also the game's barely started and we still have plenty of time, so I don't think it's fair to accuse him of this right away.

[Datisi]

Who said anything about lynching him yet
Like there's 7 days left of this dayphase, and while i doubt we will be using all of them we're not ending it yet

Like you apparently didn't read much but you come back to Marashu being at L-2 and you immediately panickly make a pretty bad towncase and what am I supposed to think? Do you have anyone that you actually want to push?

[Maduisha]

@GeneralWu, I addressed you about this before, but I think you didn't read my post, so I'll try a second time. What do you think about this post about you by Datisi? We had been talking about you a couple of pages back.

I'm not exactly worried about him not having read the game, like if he just popped in, said "lmao you post a lot i'm busy catch yall later" and left i wouldn't really care for it?

but like he got in, said that he hasn't had the chance to read, but then he's making comments about unimportant things like "if i had a mafia partner who wanted to die, i would kill them and claim vigilante" and "on a different website i randed scum more than town" which like

why?

like i get it could be a personality trait or wtv but it just seems like something more likely to come from scum wanting to appear more active and engaged than they actually are

@Marashu, I know you said you ought to work, but please address this when you have time.

Dat's explosion aside, I find skitt's interaction around this post interesting. Skitt asks whether or not to apply pressure, then asks if Dat needs a chance to towntell, then puts on pressure while Dat is exploding, then unvotes to remove pressure.

ok, and what do you take away from this?
does it affect ur read on me?

[Datisi]

Mena, what do you make of your Marashu/word solve now?

[Datisi]

zzzzzzzz

trq, what do you think of your theory rn? is there anything else that makes you think i could be scum/town other than the phrases i've used being "a crumb"?

[team rocket queen]

from the above, i townread skitter as town; it seems she thinks town shouldt position themselves in oportunistic positions to lynch ppl, but she joines Menalque in applying pressure to u.

i believe skitter was saying town should be looking for players positioning themselves opportunistically for lynches, not doing so themselves. it also seems strange for you to be townreading her for providing a definition of scumhunting.

Word

also reminds me of my own tone in one of my first games on the forum:

( https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81841 )

will read.

clidd implying word is towny because his tone is similar to a game of clidd's in which clidd was town (and died night one) is odd and word saying "will read" without further comment after previously saying clidd's evaluation of maduisha was emotionally manipulative is also odd. is word supposed to read that game and think, "hm, clidd in that game also reminds me of me and clidd was town there so i am town?" see the problem

I need to analyze the TRQ's ISO to understand her point of view.

I'll take a look at TRQ individually now.

a lot of buildup. must be a pretty time consuming endeavor.

is there anything else that makes you think i could be scum/town other than the phrases i've used being "a crumb"?

is there anything else that makes you think i could be scum/town other than the phrases i've used being "a crumb"?

while i have also found marashu's posts to be scummy, it makes me uneasy that all three SEs are lined up on the lowest activity slot. especially since your vote has been parked there since rvs except for the brief stint on me, and the other two scumread and voted you early with a built in out to that situation with you saying you were sick and not being as towny as usual, then you all ended up on marashu pretty quickly.

[Datisi]

while i have also found marashu's posts to be scummy, it makes me uneasy that all three SEs are lined up on the lowest activity slot. especially since your vote has been parked there since rvs except for the brief stint on me, and the other two scumread and voted you early with a built in out to that situation with you saying you were sick and not being as towny as usual, then you all ended up on marashu pretty quickly.

ok but what do you make of this with regard to alignments of the three of us?

[team rocket queen]

while i have also found marashu's posts to be scummy, it makes me uneasy that all three SEs are lined up on the lowest activity slot. especially since your vote has been parked there since rvs except for the brief stint on me, and the other two scumread and voted you early with a built in out to that situation with you saying you were sick and not being as towny as usual, then you all ended up on marashu pretty quickly.

which could be explained by all of you being familiar with eachother and reading eachother as town, though skitter has said she was paranoid of menalque and not ready to say you're town. could also be explained by each of you individually reading marashu as scum. could also be explained by one or two of you being mafia and this being opportunistic, however.

[Datisi]

i mean, you said yourself you think Marashu's posts were scummy. then the (presumably) only difference becomes that we are voting Marashu and you aren't?

[team rocket queen]

ok but what do you make of this with regard to alignments of the three of us?

i don't know which of three is the most likely at this point. it's strange to me that you questioned my voting alongside you earlier in the game when your vote was purely rvs but did not question skitter voting alongside you while continuing to not townread you.

i mean, you said yourself you think Marashu's posts were scummy. then the (presumably) only difference becomes that we are voting Marashu and you aren't?

i do not think my putting marashu at l-1 would be good here, even if i find him scummier than you right now.

[Datisi]

ok but what do you make of this with regard to alignments of the three of us?

i don't know which of three is the most likely at this point. it's strange to me that you questioned my voting alongside you earlier in the game when your vote was purely rvs but did not question skitter voting alongside you while continuing to not townread you.

I questioned you voting alongside me because you said you were 90% sure I was scum. "not townreading someone" is very different than "scumreading someone", hence why i didn't really question it.

i mean, you said yourself you think Marashu's posts were scummy. then the (presumably) only difference becomes that we are voting Marashu and you aren't?

i do not think my putting marashu at l-1 would be good here, even if i find him scummier than you right now.

I'm not saying you need to vote him right now, I'd prefer if you don't.

My point was, you think it's odd that me/mena/skitter are kinda blocking together and voting Marashu. However, you said that (1) it could be that we're all SRing Marashu and (2) that you yourself find Marashu scummy. so I'm asking, why is it weird exactly? Surely if you find him scummy as well, the only functional difference is that we are voting and you aren't?

[team rocket queen]

I questioned you voting alongside me because you said you were 90% sure I was scum. "not townreading someone" is very different than "scumreading someone", hence why i didn't really question it.

this is not the correct order of events.

insert another "trq please explain your vote" here, but also tad confused why you're voting alongside me?

i was also 90% sure datisi was scum.

the only thing i had said in the thread that i was scumreading you for were these:

what's the benefit of saying this? to make us think, "hm, i wonder what it is, let me reread the thread looking for exactly this. oh i think i found something, but i better not draw attention to it." because that does not seem very towny to me.

maybe not outright scummy but i do not understand the benefit, still. upon reviewing the thread looking for something that didn't get mentioned, it did not feel like i was on a quest given to me by a townsperson. thus, my reaction.

which, well, we know where i eventually ended up.

However, you said that (1) it could be that we're all SRing Marashu and (2) that you yourself find Marashu scummy. so I'm asking, why is it weird exactly? Surely if you find him scummy as well, the only functional difference is that we are voting and you aren't?

it possibly stands out to me more than it should because you are the three SEs. it's weird because it can be easily read as opportunistic (lowest activity etc). it's also weird because it happened quickly, like it could have been coordinated.

[Datisi]

huh. must've been thinking of those posts then. my bad.

okay, i get it. i don't necessarily agree maybe (though it could be bc i'm reading them as town rn), but i get where you're coming from

[Maduisha]

I was re-reading a bit to see in which direction we could take the discussion while we wait for Menalque, GeneralWu, and Marashu to answer the questions laid out for them, then I noticed this post by TRQ that I didn't pay too much attention to before:

I don't know if TRQ is telling the truth, but I do think that TRQ is serious. I don't know why any other townie would claim that, and it's stupid (but welcome) for mafia to claim that. Only the other mason (and probably the mafia) would know for sure if TRQ is telling the truth, and roughly as many people would know if TRQ is lying.

generalwu's post made me notice this again. notably absent from this list of people who would know the truth of my claim if i was serious is any other pr that is in the game.

Does this mean he just forgot to mention the potential existence of other PRs? Or maybe he was so convinced the claim was real that he disregarded it completely.

a lot of buildup. must be a pretty time consuming endeavor.

It's true that Clidd disappeared after saying he'd do something "now" and that's a bit weird, but it was late in Spain when he posted that, so maybe he fell asleep...? Regardless, it's true that it's the second time he says he's going to do that and delivers nothing. Hm...

[Maduisha]

Marashu's last post was so long ago that I fear we might be getting another replacement soon...

[Datisi]

He hasn't even been prodded yet, i think due to the weekend rule. Though they haven0t even been online since the last they posted, so.

[Karnage]

He hasn't even been prodded yet, i think due to the weekend rule. Though they haven0t even been online since the last they posted, so.

With the Sat/Sun clock running at half speed, Marusha is due for a prod in (expired on 2020-03-21 13:30:00)

[Marashu]

Dat's explosion aside, I find skitt's interaction around this post interesting. Skitt asks whether or not to apply pressure, then asks if Dat needs a chance to towntell, then puts on pressure while Dat is exploding, then unvotes to remove pressure.

ok, and what do you take away from this?
does it affect ur read on me?

At the time I posted that, my take-away from that was that you wanted to put some pressure but not so much that, if Dat is town and you are scum, you would be able to say that you weren't pushing that hard. But now that I've re-read it, I can kinda see that you might have just been easing off so you aren't tunneling. I don't want to TL you yet (there is something I noticed that I want to see if it continues), but I'm not reading you as scummy as I was when I posted that.

I keep asking questions of clidd because I'm worried that there's not enough suspicion or discussion about him. He obviously is putting together his thoughts pretty carefully (which isn't necessarily a scumtell, but makes it hard to spot a scumtell). I'm worried that he might be using previous game experience to pocket Mad (595 specifically). I don't see Wu's line of reasoning as being a "weird degree of paranoia" - Wu was even defending you in 204 and I don't think you would miss that.

Right now I am town reading Mad and Wu. I feel like Wu is making plays that are in line with someone who doesn't know the answers but is trying to reason them out. If clidd is mafia then I'm pretty sure that Wu is not (if you two are and that's why Wu was defending clidd and why clidd it townleaning while maintaining a bit of distance, well played). As for Mad, I like the way she is following up with things going on to make sure they don't slip by.

I was town reading TRQ at first, but I'm starting to have doubts. I feel like TRQ might be tunneling Dat.

I don't know if TRQ is telling the truth, but I do think that TRQ is serious. I don't know why any other townie would claim that, and it's stupid (but welcome) for mafia to claim that. Only the other mason (and probably the mafia) would know for sure if TRQ is telling the truth,

and roughly as many people would know if TRQ is lying.

generalwu's post made me notice this again. notably absent from this list of people who would know the truth of my claim if i was serious is any other pr that is in the game.

Do you think I was trying to fish out PRs? One or two players, and probably the mafia, would know for sure if you are lying. I now see that it was a meme post, but I meant what I said at the time. Not having read the full game you posted and only having read the first post, I thought it was some sort of weird new meta, hence why I said I didn't like it. Anyway, I made a mistake, it made me look scummy, but if my mistake got the game moving, I'm ok with getting my hands dirty (though I'd prefer if we could use that to lynch mafia tonight)

[Datisi]

I feel like Wu is making plays that are in line with someone who doesn't know the answers but is trying to reason them out. If clidd is mafia then I'm pretty sure that Wu is not (if you two are and that's why Wu was defending clidd and why clidd it townleaning while maintaining a bit of distance, well played).

Can you elaborate on Wu TR? Is he the only person who seems like that? Also why scum!clidd -> town!Wu?

[Marashu]

I feel like Wu is making plays that are in line with someone who doesn't know the answers but is trying to reason them out. If clidd is mafia then I'm pretty sure that Wu is not (if you two are and that's why Wu was defending clidd and why clidd it townleaning while maintaining a bit of distance, well played).

Can you elaborate on Wu TR? Is he the only person who seems like that? Also why scum!clidd -> town!Wu?

I don't know what you mean by "Is he the only person who seems like that?" but here's an answer to the rest and maybe that will answer it?

I see scum!clidd -> town!Wu? because their interaction feels more like mafia trying to pocket town than two mafia trying to protect each other. It's possible that both are town, but I don't think both are scum. Wu's questioning of clidd in specific felt pretty natural.

As for the TR on Wu:
-I feel like Wu is a cautious townie more than a mafia. Dat, I know you read 282 as Wu potentially being mafia, but I see it as trying to look for reasons why a play style might be different so they don't get distracted by it. I don't have a meta read on anyone so it's tough, but I think that if they noticed your play style was different then, they would probably be using a difference in play to their advantage.
-Wu does not appear to be pushing an agenda, and I feel like someone with that many games would probably be trying something by this point.
-Wu's views on some reads were similar to my own at the time of posting. For example, the early town read on TRQ.
-This post: 457. I don't think mafia would so blatantly ask for a summary.

Actually, @Wu you've been saying a lot about town reads but who are your scum reads?

[Maduisha]

I was town reading TRQ at first, but I'm starting to have doubts. I feel like TRQ might be tunneling Dat.

I don't know, Marashu. I feel like TRQ is town

because

she tunneled Datisi in that strange way. Unless she's playing 4D chess here, there's no way she's scum and thought such a crazy theory would make Datisi look scummy

or

her look more town. As for fishing for PRs... it's not impossible, but I feel like it's a weird assumption. The only thing I can potentially see as role fishing is not from you, because it's the mason claim in itself. But with it being thrown during RVS, I have a hard time thinking TRQ was trying to fish roles or reactions with her claim. And no town player playing a PR would jump at that and reveal themselves at the start of day 1, so I don't think what I just proposed makes any sense.

[Datisi]

You said "I feel like Wu is making plays that are in line with someone who doesn't know the answers but is trying to reason them out." as reasoning for town!Wu, so i was wondering if anyone else seemed like that to you?

-I feel like Wu is a cautious townie more than a mafia. Dat, I know you read 282 as Wu potentially being mafia, but I see it as trying to look for reasons why a play style might be different so they don't get distracted by it. I don't have a meta read on anyone so it's tough, but I think that if they noticed your play style was different then, they would probably be using a difference in play to their advantage.

I see this the other way around. The easiest explanation for a difference in playstyle is a different alignment, and discarding it in entirety just reeks of tmi. Maybe I'm getting tunneled, idk, but while I'm waiting on stuff it's a bit hard to say.

-This post: 457. I don't think mafia would so blatantly ask for a summary.

you'd be surprised.

[clidd]

I'll be home in a few hours.

[Datisi]

Hum.

UNVOTE: