Mini 2123: Greatest Idea IX - Game Over

[Pink Ball]

You have to lean on anything you can to get to the main objective

[Kerset]

The problem of this yall is that you all favor sheeping. You only find evidence against people, who take effort to play this game and punish everyone for attempting to play this in other way then being a sheep.

But I get the "it works towards wincon until it doesn't" narrative, but that assumes that sheep are just following and not thinking. That's my two scents.

Instead of listening to me you just pull your own narrative. I am trying to tell that sheeping deprived this game from analyzable content. People can't find scum in game in which most of players didn't have relevant interactions. As result people suspect all few remaining actions by PoE.

[Pink Ball]

Sheeping is analyzable content tho

[Pink Ball]

Was sheeping wrong at some point? If yes, you can judge those who sheeped.

[Pink Ball]

Who do you think is the remaining scum betwee Suji and EP?

[Kerset]

pinky if you want anything then question from

They only thing that bothers me is why would scum gamble. It wasn't certain whenever suji watches EP or GOC. Pink would be slightly safer pick and he got highly cleared. We got 5 ppl, 4 after lynch. If vig uses his ability then he will prevent lylo from happening under 33% raw chance of winning. He wasn't important enough to risk instalosing, assuming that there was a risk.

remains open (i am not attacking you, in case you find me hostile)

[Kerset]

Sheeping is analyzable content tho

I disagree. That is common tactic in Assassin in the Palace, which prevents assassin from winning

[Pink Ball]

Oh sure I didn't read that, let me think. I'm playing cards now with my family since self imposed quarantine, but I'll hit you up sooner than later

[Pink Ball]

Kerset in no way I feel you have been hostile towards me and I hope you feel the same way by the way. SirCakez comment threw me off

[Kerset]

Who do you think is the remaining scum betwee Suji and EP?

Well i can't think of explanation, why would scum risk being seen by suji but by gut i would rather lean on ep.

[EspressoPatronum]

uh yea, if you see contradiction here then it means that word 'sheep' has different meaning in our dictionaries. I can use term follower, if sheep bothers you.[...]

Follower makes a lot more sense in context. Thanks for clarifying.

Also because agreeing with the best alternative doesn't mean you're not thinking in other alternatives, is just that you came to the same conclusion after thinking which is the best course of action.
[...]

Agreed. I tend to view the leader/follower dynamic as more of a teamwork relationship. This is especially true when you're trying to do collaborative solves -- the louder player(s) air their ideas, then the rest of the group can help make them better.

Imo, going against the group for the sole purpose of not being a 'follower' is less helpful to town than working with the group. It's also better to fully explain your stance instead of just calling people out. I talked a lot about this in my recent TM20 game, but I'd be happy to go into it deeper here, too.

[Micc]

Votecount 4.01

Not Voting (5) -

Pink Ball, EspressoPatronum, Kerset, Sujimichi, SirCakez

With 5 players alive it takes 3 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is in (expired on 2020-04-04 19:25:00).

[EspressoPatronum]

Sheeping is analyzable content tho

I disagree. That is common tactic in Assassin in the Palace, which prevents assassin from winning

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure why the specific example of Assassin the Palace contradicts the general assertion that "sheeping is analyzable content."

Sheeping, lurking, hyperposting.... these behaviours all go to effort, and they can absolutely play a role in determining a player's alignment.

[EspressoPatronum]

pinky if you want anything then question from

They only thing that bothers me is why would scum gamble. It wasn't certain whenever suji watches EP or GOC. Pink would be slightly safer pick and he got highly cleared. We got 5 ppl, 4 after lynch. If vig uses his ability then he will prevent lylo from happening under 33% raw chance of winning. He wasn't important enough to risk instalosing, assuming that there was a risk.

remains open (i am not attacking you, in case you find me hostile)

Re 705 - I think we're looking for an alien.

It'd make sense for aliens to kill the vig claim asap, as aliens get one factional kill per game vs the vig's infinite. It'd also help explain why there was only one kill on N2.

[Pink Ball]

Ok if nobody's going to say it I'll have to do it.

Kerset is town.

No way Kerset shoots CSF as any alignment other than town. 7 players with one wolf and mafia already flipped, no way mafia!Kerset thinks shooting scum from another faction is good for his wincon since it would be 1v1v5 so it would be convenient for him to draw their shot for later use, lynch town, hope CSF shoots town and they shoot town too, turns the thing into a 1v1v2, dayvig CSF, gets credit for it and win in LyLo.

Yes, scum!Kerset would think in this scenario because the whole point of being scum is thinking in advance, and that's how you catch scum and how you recognize town, you see who's acting for the long run and who's not, 'cause scum has to survive, town doesn't have to. So that shot on CSF, even if it could come from scum!Kerset, came without complain, without a second thought. That's town.

So let's talk about thinking in advance: Suji started the day trying to get some kind of WIFOM shit on me. He probably thinks Kerset was the mislynch today, and tomorrow he would try to make me and Espresso fight each other. What I thought it could be town paranoia, was actually playing for tomorrow and not for today. Town can win today, scum can't.

Why killing Ovine? 'Cause I said I'd target her, so Suji can go tomorrow and say "Silver Bullet wanted me to watch Ovine in order to clear him when in reality he was going to shoot her" or some kind of poop along those lines, generating even more WIFOM, the sweet sweet WIFOM. And that's why Suji didn't want to watch Ovine, 'cause it was not part of his long run plan. 'Cause Suji needed to make a kill, and with my roleblock on Ovine, Ovine would get cleared, so it had to be my target.

I'm pretty sure it's Suji. Even if it's not, this game should be over by tomorrow, 'cause I'll roleblock whoever I think it's scum between EP and Kerset and I'll either get an inno or a guilty.

[Sujimichi]

I have reasonably explained why I wanted to present the information regarding you being cleared, and your reaction is somewhat over-the-top considering what I have stated. You are arriving at a conclusion you would like to arrive at, and not one based on probability from the information that we have.

I have re-evaluated based on my read-through, and from my current point of view, the remaining Mafia must be in Kerset or EspressoPatronum. Pink Ball makes a decent argument for why it is not Kerset, and EspressoPatronum's entire play this game has been mechanically based, so I am inclined to vote EspressoPatronum today.

[Sujimichi]

Even if it's not, this game should be over by tomorrow, 'cause I'll roleblock whoever I think it's scum between EP and Kerset and I'll either get an inno or a guilty.

Please note this would not be correct if the remaining Mafia is of Alien-alignment as a kill was performed last night.

[Pink Ball]

Yeah actually hold up a minute I'm basing everything on mechanics and I'm awful at that let me reread D1 and 2

[Pink Ball]

Damn it

[Pink Ball]

I hate this game, I hate being wrong.

But fuck me, I reread D2 and Suji would make sense only as alien. I may have overestimated Kerset 'cause their interactions with TL on D1 and 2 are awful.

And EP well I love him with all my heart but his ISO is underwhelming.

I want Kerset dead now lol and I'm going down with my boat with this one

VOTE: Kerset

[SirCakez]

Ok if nobody's going to say it I'll have to do it.

Kerset is town.

No way Kerset shoots CSF as any alignment other than town. 7 players with one wolf and mafia already flipped, no way mafia!Kerset thinks shooting scum from another faction is good for his wincon since it would be 1v1v5 so it would be convenient for him to draw their shot for later use, lynch town, hope CSF shoots town and they shoot town too, turns the thing into a 1v1v2, dayvig CSF, gets credit for it and win in LyLo.

Yes, scum!Kerset would think in this scenario because the whole point of being scum is thinking in advance, and that's how you catch scum and how you recognize town, you see who's acting for the long run and who's not, 'cause scum has to survive, town doesn't have to. So that shot on CSF, even if it could come from scum!Kerset, came without complain, without a second thought. That's town.

Frankly Pink Ball this bit doesn't make sense. CSF was confirmed scum because of their scumslip. If Kerset hadn't shot them it would have looked extremely suspicious. It also makes sense for Kerset to do so as Alien or Mafia.

[SirCakez]

And Kerset's content today has just felt like flailing scum rather then genuine town gamesolving. I'm p much ready to lynch there.

[Pink Ball]

Yeah I changed my mind mister baker, Silver Bullet sometimes gets in his own head and fucks around

[Kerset]

It'd make sense for aliens to kill the vig claim asap, as aliens get one factional kill per game vs the vig's infinite. It'd also help explain why there was only one kill on N2.

Well i asked mod and if two remaining players are 1 town and 1 alien without a kill ability then

nobody

will win.
If alien used his kill as last scum then he made himself unable to win anymore...
There would have to be a player, who decided to play the worst alignment AND was completely carefree to the point where he throw away his win condition. I don't believe that.

[Kerset]

And Kerset's content today has just felt like flailing scum rather then genuine town gamesolving. I'm p much ready to lynch there.

Its not like there is content about anyone else beside me and pink.