Mini Normal 2128: Normal Mafia - Game Over!

[Skellen]

From what I saw, Skelly (which autocorrected to Smelly, lol.)

That happens often. I also already saw Swollen. I am getting constantly mocked by auto-correct.

[Skellen]

Shameful pagetop to double down on that.

[Skellen]

I'm not sure i love your summary of what the case is - The case is that in order for her to criticize me for feeling that Allo's potential towntells were fabricated, she would have to read allo as town. If she read allo ask scum even slighly, she would naturally also get that I thought Allo's posts were scummy and that those potential towntells were BS. But then she goes along and votes Allo in her next post. It stinks of scum going through and reading trying to poke holes and "scumfind" where she can because her two inqusitions don't match up to a single narrative of what her take on the game was as she read - she either thinks I'm stretching to make a case that Allo is scum or she agrees that allo reads scum

Why shouldn't I question your reason for voting Allo while I also suspect Allo? I had my own reasons after all and bussing is a thing or even more simple, I might as well just be wrong with my read, I can't know prior putting on some pressure or questioning. I was asking for your reasoning because I am not familiar with Allo, I don't know his towntells (and still don't know in fact, only why they were bs to you) and it would give me more insight on whatever your push is based, after all I can still re-evaluate on my read.

[TheTrollie]

Ok NOW can we please start voting skellen?

[Morning Tweet]

Aren't millers not even allowed in normal??

[Bambi Jay]

What kinda rule is that? The only rule like that also applies to Vigilantes, in which theyre ONLY town. Miller was made with Normal Games since the inception of Werewolf.

[Allomancer]

Roles which are explicitly Normal for Town only include:
Vanilla Townie, Friendly Neighbor, Innocent Child, Mason,

Miller

, Vigilante, Vengeful, any roles listed as "for any alignment"

[Morning Tweet]

Regarding bob I can understand what Cat pointed out, but my problem is that I don't really see the scum motivation in the execution of his "tunnel" on MT. It's admittedly mostly subjective bias, because his 1v1s are frustrating to read, but he is smart and pretty self-aware and I would assume he would know as scum when to back off as it became clear that no one really digs his suspicion on MT. It only pushed him into the center of attraction and going by the early game state there wasn't even a need to do that, because there was already Dany/MT going on. Waiting for his input outside of his 1v1 though for a firmer read as I think he is easier to read when he is not involved in one of those.

Bob doesn't strike me as someone who is bothered by causing lots of attention to himself on either alignment

Pedit: For some reason I was under the impression that results that lie to cops (guilty on a non-guilty) wasn't normal. that clears that up

[Bambi Jay]

Your thinking of things like Framers and cops with different sanities. Also yeah Godfather is probably still banned, so you just gotta worry about Millers.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Fair point about 44. I read that as part of the OMGUS shit-posting but I can see it.

When it comes to 59, the reason I found this overly defensive was in context to what preceded it. It was a bunch of random baseless accusations thrown around without much intent other than to move the game in and out of RVS. Post 59 is a direct response to an accusation and then throwing (what I read as legitimate) shade at the accusatory. And that’s more than anything why I found it overly defensive. The post you talk about in 44 I read more as an OMGUS vote and that’s why I dismissed it originally I suppose but in post 59 it’s more of a doubling down on what I feel was a rather harmless post by Morning Tweet. Or at least that’s my personal interpretation of post 59. To throw shade on Morning Tweet’s tongue and cheek scum rankings just struck me as an overreaction, especially as the game was only 59 posts to that point.

So I went back and checked to see if iDannyboy had been voted by anyone else just to see if it was consistent across the board (aka defensive in nature) or just defensive in that scenario (aka more likely townie behavior) and iDannyboy has a less-defensive but same-ish type of reaction in post 46 when Paragon jokingly pressures him.
Honestly, I have no clue what’s going on between IDannyboy’s posts of 44, 46, 59. Does anyone have a read on those? Overly defensive and needing to react to any suspicion throws his way OR just some weird early game town v town stuff? I don’t know if there’s some scummy defensive overreaction here or if I’m tunneling too much on early game posts that are intended to be more throw-away and I’m misreading them.

I'm still confused as to what you think was defensive

because it was iDany pushing MorningTweet from the beginning, not the other way around. if anything, MorningTweet was the one who OMGUS'd

[geraintm]

So...daughter is currently in an ambulance so might not get that promised increase in activity today. Sorry

[mavsfan41]

Damn! Hope she’s doing okay geraintm! Yea, no one is going to blame you for scaling back activity. Just make sure you and your family are safe and healthy. I wish her a speedy recovery.

[Morning Tweet]

So...daughter is currently in an ambulance so might not get that promised increase in activity today. Sorry

take your time!

[geraintm]

She's back now. Thank god for the NHS, they truly are wonderful. Nothing virus related, just your normal every day seizure.

[mavsfan41]

@Cat Scratch Fever: I’ve read that beginning interaction many times trying to figure out the best way to interpret it and I’ll breakdown my read of the situation. So post 34 is what kicks it off. This post is by Morning Tweet and it doesn’t mean anything at the time. Seems like shitposting rvs. The significance of that post is that iDannyboy will later quote this one as the first interaction between the two.

Post 44 is where iDannyboy quotes that post then throws shade outside of rvs onto Morning Tweet. IDannyboy has stated he doesn’t like rvs and if you accept that premise this seems harmless in nature and does indeed fit that narrative. This could be an attempt to pull the game out of rvs. It just strikes me as a little aggressive in nature. And aggressive cause iDannyboy is quoting and using an rvs post to vote Morning Tweet on (what appears to be) serious basis.

The next two posts are Paragon again doing his thing with humorist commentary (miss ya man!) and iDannyboy responding in justifying his vote where I feel a justification response to Paragon’s posts isn’t necessary. This does strike me as weird. The justification seems odd to me in this scenario. (This scenario being in response to Paragon’s post directly.)

Post 53 is Morning Tweet’s reply to iDannyboy’s post. And I suppose it’s more of a response to the actual vote than the actual post. She brings up a good point in this post about throwing shade but not actually voting in half in/half out. Then comes post 59. This post is the one that caught me originally. IDannyboy (at least in my view) does get very defensive when Morning Tweet brings up her scum rankings and iDannyboy is listed as scum.

This whole early game interaction follows this narrative where iDannyboy doesn’t seem to post unless it’s in response to someone mentioning him, and about especially about him just posting to defend himself.

At least that’s my read on the situation and more of why bob3141 I think should’ve pursued iDannyboy in that interaction than Morning Tweet. I was wishing bob3141 had looked into iDannyboy more then thought, aah screw it, I’ll do it rather than being like “crap, missed the opportunity.”

[TheTrollie]

I truly and honestly think this entire interaction is a dead end.

[Morning Tweet]

probably. I think it's an interesting point to bring up that bob chose me rather than Dany, but I'm gonna say it's just because he wanted to use his patented "Ask a loaded question" technique. Mav reads into it very closely, and I think that looks good on him

I'm still voting bob because I can totally see scum bob doing this; it's totally within town bob's realm too but I haven't seen anything from bob that I like yet. Not that I'm sure what that would be

[Paragon]

178: I don't like this Bob-post, I don't think Morning Tweet has said anything new here that she didn't already say before. This whole read/tunnel into reconsideration feels completely fabricated from Bob. The only reason I see scum!Bob doing it though is if he believes it'll look towny, I don't think scum!him actually thinks he can get Morning Tweet mislynched with that.

Bob

, why did this post change your mind while previous ones didn't?

I like mavsfan so far, though he has fantastic hair which I fear may have pocketed me.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!2

Basically my response to the rest of the posts. I won't vote anyone ATM so if Bob wants to convince me of their innocence so be it.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3
Why? Game got a lot more substance after the first couple of page.

Several people saying Bob's conviction is genuine and there's no scumtells in anything he said. Tempted to sheep the consensus, but I'm still paranoid that Bob dropped the tunnel when he was amassing votes, and I'm not completely sold on his reasoning for doing so.

I'm not sure i love your summary of what the case is - The case is that in order for her to criticize me for feeling that Allo's potential towntells were fabricated, she would have to read allo as town. If she read allo ask scum even slighly, she would naturally also get that I thought Allo's posts were scummy and that those potential towntells were BS. But then she goes along and votes Allo in her next post. It stinks of scum going through and reading trying to poke holes and "scumfind" where she can because her two inqusitions don't match up to a single narrative of what her take on the game was as she read - she either thinks I'm stretching to make a case that Allo is scum or she agrees that allo reads scum

I can see a world where town!Skellen is more so trying to get a better read on you by testing your reasons behind that statement, rather than caring about her read on Allomancer in 121. I don't think the case is super valid.

Why shouldn't I question your reason for voting Allo while I also suspect Allo? I had my own reasons after all and bussing is a thing or even more simple, I might as well just be wrong with my read, I can't know prior putting on some pressure or questioning. I was asking for your reasoning because I am not familiar with Allo, I don't know his towntells (and still don't know in fact, only why they were bs to you) and it would give me more insight on whatever your push is based, after all I can still re-evaluate on my read.

Having just said that, I don't like the justification here. Feels like she's over-justifying, and the reasoning for trying to get a better read on Allomancer by asking to elaborate someone else's read on him is... less likely?

{iDanyboy, bob3141, Skellen}

[Paragon]

Now if you are scum at this point i would have expected you to double down and push further rather than having a moment of hesitation. During bit of consideration. As it serves no interest for scum at this point to reply to me as although they are considering i am town. Serves no interest for scum even partialy to cut infront of their own push.

Why do you view what she'd do as scum as black and white? Scum!her feigning evaluation on your alignment is surely the more natural thing to do in this situation, which is how she'd want to be perceived by the rest of the game. Do you disagree?

Skellen

, I love the shades! Do you have any scumreads now?

[TheTrollie]

The response that skellen can read allo as scum but still want to grill me on my read isn't responsive to my argument.

My case is that her entrance to the game reads as scum coming in and finding holes to poke in various places down the line without all of the reads she makes fitting into a cohesive, town-motivated view. I say i think allos towntells are easy to fake, and she says just because they are easy to fake doesnt mean that they are, and rhen presses me on it. In the very next post she votes allo bc she thinks allo is scummy. Those dont line up - if she scum reads allo then how would she even think to ask me how i could view allows potential tells as fabricated - she supposedly agrees he could be scum, so must therefore agree that any town posts are fabricated. It just reeks of someone who is faking a position instead of tracking and actually making reads.

Moreover, when pressure mounts on this, her reponse is to say "of course i asked you, bussing is a thing" as if to say that all along she was thinking to ask me so that she could figure out if allo and I were scum together? (bob... don't @me)

Bullshit.

Look im not dead set on lynching skell today but i feel like theres a good argument here and im trying to change subjects from a wagon that i am feeling is against town and town lead.

[Espressojet]

How do you claim traitor and not get lynched?

Hey, I don't like this post

[geraintm]

In post 106, TheTrollie wrote:I don't love Para's vote hopping at all. But it feels like hyper/neurotic town more than scum maybe?I kinda love it, there's nothing reasonably solid enough to go off of that warrants keeping a vote stuck on one person.

I dislike vote hoping generally. creates too much noise and scum can hide in it.

about to start catching up, expect a ton of little posts rather than really long ones. sorry if people hate this

[geraintm]

I said she is clearly coming across as self concous scum with me saying that her responses are not towny.

no one can come across on day one as "clearly" anything.

anyone's opinions day one of what a correct reaction is for a townie to make are just...wrong. stop being so certain that you have spotted something so early in the game. it is just going to lead you down a rabbit hole...

[geraintm]

from town impressions to not town impressions

Paragon, CatScratch, Allomancer - lean town
iDany - ungngngng
BBmolla, Trollie - undecided
Skellen - lesser iffy
gerain, bob - more iffy

If i’m calling my shots right, the two lurkers (Expresso + Vig) are going to end up being both town. Just a theory of mine tho and obviously will be overrided once they actually start posting

your town list seems correlated with the number of posts. paragon is 2nd after you, allomancer is 3rd. im low as I haven't been posting, and kinda shocked you didn't call me a lurker.
the correlation means I am not trusting of your reads too much at this tsage of the game

[geraintm]

I think you're experiencing confirmation bias from this technique accidentally working in other games, bob

This ^^^