Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[nomnomnom]

VC 1.11

TheFuzzylogic99 (4):

Blake Belladonna, Something_Smart, Churros, popsofctown

NDMath (2):

Luca Blight, Paragon

Churros (2):

Taly, NDMath

popsofctown (1):

TheFuzzylogic99

Not Voting:

Aloratom, Firebringer, eyestott

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-30 07:05:00)

[Aloratom]

eyestott - T
Taly - T
Ame - T
Wiisp - null T
popsofctown - null T
Luca - null
churros - null
Paragon - null s
NDMath - s
TheFuzzylogic99 - s
Blake/Yshtola - s

I just stated why I think your bottom scumreads are town, and I am your townread, help me out here.

The world where Blake is scum with Taly makes plenty of sense admittedly

fmpov Taly isn't really scumreading any scum, only scumreads I remember from him are Paragon and me, really.

Can you please explain your

Ame

and

Paragon

townreads?

Your Y'shtola ISO was done before the Blake reveal, which was apparently a surprise to you, and you are familiar with Blake's meta. Does that change your read?

[Taly]

Your Y'shtola ISO was done before the Blake reveal, which was apparently a surprise to you, and you are familiar with Blake's meta. Does that change your read?

Not much other than

Blake

is a very competent player and NOT new at all.

But even with the context that she has experience, the only thing I worry is

Fuzzy

as a sole scumread. I wonder what rationale she has for a townread and rationale she has for an uncertain read, since she hasn't verified person-by-person.

Other than that, I don't see an agenda? Aside from pocketing me, since the reveal occurred after my ISO, but right now, that's just me doubting a townread when I feel pretty directionless right now.

I get the disagreements on my ISOs but I feel pretty isolated from the plist at this point. A lot of my posts have been met with either disagreement or derision, so I'm shutting down until we actually have a flip.

My faith in my reads this D1 is not there anymore.

[Taly]

[NDMath]

What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?

I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.

I don’t like this stalling, especially considering he still hasn’t answered it.

Math’s reasoning for Paragon being his main SR was that Paragon is doing a lot of things that Math does as scum. When I ask him to expland on this he takes forever to answer, and finally gives an answer in 1507 in which he says paragon has been agreeing with a lot of stuff recently. This strikes me as scummy reasoning for a couple of reasons:

1) it ignores Paragon’s play as a whole, which is far from what Math is portraying it as here

2) it neglects to mention anything pertaining to Math’s original reasoning, which is was I asked him to explain.

I had to ask again to clarify what he meant in his original reasoning and he made the stalling post above. It’s as though he’s been caught making shit up and so tried to find something else he could throw at Paragon in its place.

Making stuff up is different from knowing my answer as is won't cut it.

I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".

Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.
UNVOTE: popsofctown

Not convinced, so why unvote and wagon Churros instead?

His Churros vote seems really random after his previous views on that slot. The way he states he is willing to compromise on Fuzzy also seems scummy - it’s as though he knows his current vote is vanity and unlikely to go anywhere (especially as Math has literally no reasoning behind his vote) but knows it will be less opportunistic looking than going straight for someone like Fuzzy.

Weird as well how Math is seemingly sheeping Taly’s view on Churros, but not his view on Fuzzy. Any reason for this?

And I don’t get why he’s suddenly given up on pursuing Pops.

-"You're scummy for moving your vote to a vanity wagon."
-"Suspicious how you're not strongly townreading the only nonvanity wagon besides yourself."

[Luca Blight]

Nice misrep, I never said that, nor would I when I also SL Fuzzy.

I find your stance unnatural posturing. How about you explain it rather than trying to misrep what I said?

[Luca Blight]

1) you still haven’t answered what Paragon has been doing that you also do as scum

2) explain your Churros vote

3) why are you no longer pursuing a Pops lynch and why do you now prefer Fuzzy instead?

4) why do you sheep Taly on SR’ing Churros but not on TR’ing Fuzzy?

[Luca Blight]

And the only reason Churros is a vanity wagon is because you’re not pushing it at all - you literally gave no reasoning and in the same post stated your willingness to lynch Fuzzy instead.

It’s all for show.

[NDMath]

That's how I interpreted it -- whatever I did was wrong.

The problem I'm having is I don't see the votes to hang outside of fuzzy/me in this last dayish. I'm reluctant of hanging fuzzy because no matter which alignment he flips I look bad, and I'm struggling to see his posting habits as anything but nai. If we no hang we just go through the same thing again so any hang is better than no hang.

I just don't see the point in continuing to try to convince you I'm town, since though it's most likely possible [I'm not capable of it/I don't see how it happens].
2) Supporting Taly but not seeing what I can do.
3) I don't prefer fuzzy to pops, I'm indicating I'm not ignoring the slot may have to be hanged to get a hang.
4) His fuzzy iso was mixed and only really shows reasons fuzzy shouldn't be scumread rather than should be townread. Also Churros entire readlist doesn't follow what I got at all and we replaced in quite similar times.

[Luca Blight]

I’m not going to be able to unvote you if you can’t explain that Paragon read at all. It was what I found most scummy about your reads list and you’ve done nothing but stall and deflect when asked to elaborate.

I just don’t see how you can have that thought process without actually being able to give any kind of explanation. You used a generic reason to justify your SR and when asked to explain it can’t back it up whatsoever.

[Luca Blight]

Also if Churros is scum Luca is town and if Churros is town Luca is also town.

Can you explain this as well?

[Luca Blight]

Time’s running out, get your votes down.

I suggest Fuzzy isn’t the right way to go; he’s the biggest wagon, others who aren’t currently voting him are also willing to and there is little resistance to this wagon.

I endorse a Math lynch.

[Blake Belladonna]

Your Y'shtola ISO was done before the Blake reveal, which was apparently a surprise to you, and you are familiar with Blake's meta. Does that change your read?

Not much other than

Blake

is a very competent player and NOT new at all.

But even with the context that she has experience, the only thing I worry is

Fuzzy

as a sole scumread. I wonder what rationale she has for a townread and rationale she has for an uncertain read, since she hasn't verified person-by-person.

Other than that, I don't see an agenda? Aside from pocketing me, since the reveal occurred after my ISO, but right now, that's just me doubting a townread when I feel pretty directionless right now.

I get the disagreements on my ISOs but I feel pretty isolated from the plist at this point. A lot of my posts have been met with either disagreement or derision, so I'm shutting down until we actually have a flip.

My faith in my reads this D1 is not there anymore.

My reads are rarely so cut and dry.

One thing I would like to point out to you is that I recently had another game where I struggled to gain concrete scumreads early on into the game. Several players immediately suspected me for this, as it gave the impression I was either not sorting the game or not putting in the effort to get to any confident scumreads. In the hindsight of that game with knowing who the scumteam actually were, it consisted of two players that I struggle to read off their own posting, a third that was entirely absent from the game, and a fourth that I had never once played with before.

My process for getting reads depends on getting a handle on the game itself and how it is progressing, and this game has been one of those where it is more difficult to do as such. My impression so far is that the slots I'm able to identify as town are mostly interacting with each other, while the slots I am less certain of are either under the radar, being pushed for reasons I don't find to be strong, or slots that are difficult to parse for me specifically.

I do have confidence in several townreads that I am willing to base the rest of the game around for the moment, but it's rather rare for me to get a strong view of the game when I have too many scumreads. It's a lot more common for me to reach that stage when I'm able to accurately identify at least half of the town first.

If this is one of those games, then this is a necessary step. Once there are a few flips, it will be more clear whether I'm on the right track or not. At that point, I will reassess my reads based on the information that will be available. This is how I play.

[Paragon]

Blake, have you explained your Fuzzy scumread?

I scumread both Fuzzy and NDMath at this point! I don't agree with your town-case, Taly. I might respond to specifics and why I disagree with them later.

[Blake Belladonna]

Firebringer is town off of Ame's posting. My impression of her, from our recently completed game where we were scumpartners, is that she is very calculated and precise when she is scum. I will grant that some of my bias towards reading her is from the position of knowing that she wasn't town since the moment she replaced into that game, but my entire impression of her play this game was the opposite. She's a lot more fluid in her thoughts, her posts don't feel like they are double checked or posted with any endgoal in mind. For her to be scum, my belief is that she would have to be posting from the mindset of her entire team being in a spot that is advantageous to them, which would conflict with my view on both the game and the other slots. It's very hard to believe that this slot comes from a scum mindset.

Aloratom, Taly, and Paragon are all townreads for similar reasons. I either have personally witnessed their scumgame recently (Aloratom, Taly) or have reasonable expectations of their towngame (Paragon) that I am comparing their play in this game to.

Taly's posting this game is congruent to his emotional state and tone, and I strongly suspect that the suspicion he has been gathering this game is due to how his content quality fluctuates along this line. There is too much emphasis on what exactly he is saying, as Taly is a fairly emotional player at the best of times, and reading those players by direct content and what they are saying is rarely a good way to judge such players. Judging how their content changes with their stated emotional state is commonly the best way to judge players like this, especially their thought processes as their posting becomes more erratic in situations where they become frustrated or annoyed.

Aloratom's posting this game is far more cognizant and fleshed out than the game I recently witnessed of him being scum. I also considered him to be pretty clearly scum rather early in that game due to how he was handling the various tensions in that game and his willingness to coast off of them, and I'm not seeing that same mindset here. Normally, I would consider this a potential gamestate difference as well, but I'm less inclined to believe that in this case partially because the time between the two games are virtually zero, and partially because the quality of play would have to increase in a situation where the game is progressing in a very similar vein to the other one. I see no strong reason to believe this is case, especially since he didn't gather much heat as it was happening in the first game, so the most likely reason for the difference is alignment.

Paragon, admittedly, I can't very well explain. The best I can do for right now is that I expect him to play around my slot differently if he was scum in this game, which I expect since he had an awareness of my identity that no other player had. A secondary reason is that his content, despite gathering him animosity for the way he played out his post restriction, has been pretty solid at showing that he's attempting to solve the game. I don't have any strong examples of him being scum to back this with, but I believe it would be tricky for him to pull off this same level of content and cognizance if he had a red PM rather than a green one.

Luca Blight is my weakest read of the five, as I have no past experience with him to fall back on. Similarly, the only game of his I read some time back was a years old scumgame of his. Nonetheless, I believe his content this day phase is strong enough for me to look past for right now. It is an assumption, to be sure, but there will be time to double check the validity of this read later on if the pieces fit into place strangely later on in the game.

[Blake Belladonna]

Popsofctown is a player I historically have a bad time attempting to read. It's very unlikely I will have a confident read on her without some form of outside help, whether it be from a role or interactions with other slots. I do believe her thought processes trend towards a town mindset, but I don't understand her mind well enough to confidently make that call.

eyestott, I simply don't remember anything from other than his complaining about being so townread. This could be scum, this could be town. As of right now, he's in the list of players I wouldn't mind being flipped, but otherwise I think he will be easier to sort for sure in later days.

Wiisp had a single moment I thought was town, but otherwise I had no opinion of him.

Churros and NDMath are two slots I don't believe have very high odds of being town. NDMath's recent posting has had a downturn that I wasn't seeing beforehand, which tanked the read. Churros' had Taco's ISO working against him already, but I also believe that if he is who I expect that he is, then the Taly push is a significant error by him that shows he is not town.

[Blake Belladonna]

TheFuzzyLogic99 is a scumread for the following reasons.

First, he has exhibited signs that despite playing the game, he is posting a lot of nonsense irrelevant to the game. He has several cases of pushing content that has a basis in nothing, in a way that isn't possible to refute without engaging into nothing.
Second, he is not attempting to solve the game. He looks busy, but there is very little there that shows he has an underlying thought process he's working from in order to get his reads. Most of his 'content' about other players consists of idle responses, justifications for reads without directly stating them, and otherwise very few tangible stances.

His mindset is not town. He's looking busy and saying enough to scrape by while the rest of the town bickers amongst themselves, but if you look at what he is actually saying, there's nothing there that indicates he is attempting to solve the game.

[Blake Belladonna]

I am aware that Taly towncased him. I have not read that wall, but I will do so shortly.

[Blake Belladonna]

The case is nonsense.

I can pick it apart if needed, but it's based on very flimsy logic, overthinking his posting, and making assumptions that aren't sound. The conclusion of a strong townread also doesn't match what he posted throughout.

[Blake Belladonna]

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

The suspicion that Taly and TheFuzzyLogic99 are aligned as scum together makes more sense to me now, but I still believe Taly is town.

[Taly]

Time’s running out, get your votes down.

I suggest Fuzzy isn’t the right way to go; he’s the biggest wagon, others who aren’t currently voting him are also willing to and there is little resistance to this wagon.

I endorse a Math lynch.

Time to get to that ISO then...

My reads are rarely so cut and dry.

One thing I would like to point out to you is that I recently had another game where I struggled to gain concrete scumreads early on into the game. Several players immediately suspected me for this, as it gave the impression I was either not sorting the game or not putting in the effort to get to any confident scumreads.

In the hindsight of that game with knowing who the scumteam actually were, it consisted of two players that I struggle to read off their own posting, a third that was entirely absent from the game, and a fourth that I had never once played with before.

Sure, I'll humor this.

Players I've Struggled To Read at any point this dayphase: (-1)

Ame-Firebringer too, but it's historically playstyle w/ him / popsofctown / Paragon

Absent For Majority of Game: (-1)

Fuzzy / Taco-Churros too, if we're speaking in relative terms / NDMath

People I've Played With Before (To my knowledge): (+1)

Blake / Wiisp-S_S / popsofctown / Ame-Firebringer

Not In Any Group (2+-1=+1):

eyestott / Aloratom / Luca Blight

+1:

Blake / Wiisp-S_S / eyestott / Aloratom / Luca Blight

0:

Ame-Firebringer / popsofctown

-1:

Fuzzy / Churros-Taco / NDMath / Paragon

I guess the +1's and -1's impact my current reads.

Reads in Tier-list off the top of my head, no line order

Moderate Town:

Blake / eyestott / Aloratom / Luca

Weak Town:

Ame-Firebringer / Wiisp-S_S

No Confident Sort:

popsofctown

*

/ NDMath / Paragon

*

/ Fuzzy

Scum:

Churros

For a more realistic readslist and to help decision-making,

Pops/Paragon

are being moved up a tier... yay.

I read 1639 and it's what gave me the inspiration to post, tbh.

Popsofctown is a player I historically have a bad time attempting to read. It's very unlikely I will have a confident read on her without some form of outside help, whether it be from a role or interactions with other slots. I do believe her thought processes trend towards a town mindset, but I don't understand her mind well enough to confidently make that call.

eyestott, I simply don't remember anything from other than his complaining about being so townread. This could be scum, this could be town. As of right now, he's in the list of players I wouldn't mind being flipped, but otherwise I think he will be easier to sort for sure in later days.

Wiisp had a single moment I thought was town, but otherwise I had no opinion of him.

Churros and NDMath are two slots I don't believe have very high odds of being town. NDMath's recent posting has had a downturn that I wasn't seeing beforehand, which tanked the read. Churros' had Taco's ISO working against him already, but I also believe that if he is who I expect that he is, then the Taly push is a significant error by him that shows he is not town.

Pops

... same here.

eyestott

... I was speaking to him about his townreads and that there should be more critical attention to his posting. I partially forgot the source of my personal townread here and I'll need to check it, but I'd rather him not be flipped since he would be easier to sort.

What was the single moment

Wiisp

seemed town?

I guess another reason to actually ISO

NDMath

very soon...

So, what I gathered from your part about

Churros

:
- You think

Churros

is an alt and by that potential person's approach, they're likely not town for pushing me?
- What's this significant error?

The case is nonsense.

I can pick it apart if needed, but it's based on very flimsy logic, overthinking his posting, and making assumptions that aren't sound. The conclusion of a strong townread also doesn't match what he posted throughout.

Go ahead. We need to make a decision.

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

The suspicion that Taly and TheFuzzyLogic99 are aligned as scum together makes more sense to me now, but I still believe Taly is town.

who am I not scum with at this point?

Oh, and why not

Churros

as a potential person for a combo here? Did I misread your post about him?

[Aloratom]

I'm going back to where I think the better lynch for today is.

VOTE: NDMath

[Taly]

let's see where this goes.

Ok I'll have fun with your post a bit Taly

I really wanted to hear Churros out, but the fact that they dismissed my POV, voted me, and is just sitting there does not feel genuine, tbh.

Yeah, as town I love to chat out with my scum reads or keep repeating the same things every page to intentionally create slogfest/spamfests in the game.

You made about 2-3 posts about voicing a scumread on this slot and most of the reasoning is associative to the vote you're placing now.

I guess when your scumbuddy

Fuzzy

is gone, your push on me will be far more justified?

Which makes sense, because if you're so confident about this slot on D1, you know how other people will flip too.

But wait, if

Fuzzy's

town, I'm still your next lynch target? I'm the only person who's reached out to you, and you're disregarding any attempt while trying to wagon me.

And yes, I do love to interact with people I scumread for better yielded sorts later in the game or upon their potential flip...

Re: Taly V Pops / Taly V Paragon

Like, if you were town, are you going to throw out a readslist within less than hours of replacing-in

I had already literally read all game and said so multiple times. I threw a readlist so fast because I had already parsed my reads before repping in. Do anyone think this was said in good-faith? Hint it wasn't, it's just Taly filling sausages on her scum read on me to be long enough and look valid.

If you read the game beforehand, you knew how you'd approach it regardless of your alignment. Your point is not credible, and scum-indicative since you use this as a basis to discredit my stance here.

vote and push to hardwagon at suspected slot late-D1, and then not contribute?

What exactly would I "contribute" here other than talking about SRs which I have. More sausage to fill a empty case.

Churros has some valid points, but gamestate, tone, and behavior all push to scum. :/

Cute.

Rude.

The problem? Town can play this way. And I really don't vibe with that.

Ah yes another "He might be town but I've a problem with his playstyle therefore it's ok"

That's literally the reason I began to SR you when you were pushing in Pops/Paragon as well. Before a wagon or flip or anything has come to fruition you're placing those lines trying to say that the burden isn't on you if you aren't correctly reading X player.

As someone that does that as scum and see other people doing it majorly as scum, that's very cute.

Never said it's OK to suspect

Luca

because of playstyle. My townread on him at that point was less confident.

And no, all of my inability to read someone is entirely on me. I just haven't found a grasp with anyone long enough to parse through those reads more confidently.

Nope. This is not my scum-play. I'm far more concrete in my points as scum.

[Taly]

I just can't be this terrible with reads this game, guys.

[Luca Blight]

Trust me on my Churros TR for today.

I’m interested in your updated thoughts on Math.