Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[Karnage]

Vote Count 2.1

Marashu (2) ~

skitter30, Maduisha,

Datisi (1) ~

Malakittens,

Not voting (4) ~

clidd, Marashu, word321, Datisi,

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-04-05 13:00:00)

V/LA:

• skitter30 - Fridays and Saturdays

[Maduisha]

well it's concerning to me that mena decided to collapse the wagon on my top suspect to the guy i was saying wasn't scum and that you followed him
like idk how do you want me to view that sequence of events

like form my pov y'all made a dumb decision yesterday, which i called out at the time, and pointed out the indicators that y'all were on the wrong track, which got shot down

The reason why the train switch happened was because GWu was also looking fairly scummy with his behavior, and Marashu claimed VT instead of trying to fish for a PR by claiming one. Clidd said it's still plausible that scum would do that, and I agreed with that, however I could also see the logic behind Menalque's switch and I would have wanted to flip both, no matter the order.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's too weird to have two suspects and consider the possibility of the first one not being guilty because he didn't try to be opportunistic.

[skitter30]

why waste a cop invest on someone who is fairly obviously scum?

also this whole thing is moot given the mason flip so why does this even matter

[skitter30]

VOTE: generalwu

Choo Choo goes the wagon train

ALLLLLLLL ABOAAAAAARD

this is what directly caused the switch from mara to gw

[skitter30]

The reason why the train switch happened was because GWu was also looking fairly scummy with his behavior, and Marashu claimed VT instead of trying to fish for a PR by claiming one. Clidd said it's still plausible that scum would do that, and I agreed with that, however I could also see the logic behind Menalque's switch and I would have wanted to flip both, no matter the order.

ok but from my pov mara is fairly scummy
the wagon collapsed
scum presumably had something to do with the collapsing wagon

so i'm looking for how and why that wagon broke to find scum
and mena's slot is my best bet

[Datisi]

why waste a cop invest on someone who is fairly obviously scum?

also this whole thing is moot given the mason flip so why does this even matter

it matters bc your advice of a cop checking mara struck me as very odd/illogical

and idk what to make of it wrt your alignment

[skitter30]

well it's concerning to me that mena decided to collapse the wagon on my top suspect to the guy i was saying wasn't scum and that you followed him
like idk how do you want me to view that sequence of events

like form my pov y'all made a dumb decision yesterday, which i called out at the time, and pointed out the indicators that y'all were on the wrong track, which got shot down

again from my pov how is what i said wrong

[Datisi]

i didn't say it was...?

[Maduisha]

The reason why the train switch happened was because GWu was also looking fairly scummy with his behavior, and Marashu claimed VT instead of trying to fish for a PR by claiming one. Clidd said it's still plausible that scum would do that, and I agreed with that, however I could also see the logic behind Menalque's switch and I would have wanted to flip both, no matter the order.

ok but from my pov mara is fairly scummy
the wagon collapsed
scum presumably had something to do with the collapsing wagon

so i'm looking for how and why that wagon broke to find scum
and mena's slot is my best bet

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I don't think Menalque's slot is scum because of that. At least not for that reason. The reason I'm saying that is... he knew everyone SRs Marashu and we were going to flip Marashu D2 regardless even if he pushed GWu. If both Marashu and Menalque are scum, what does mafia gain out of such move? I don't think this move makes sense from scum!Menalque's point of view, to put the spotlight on himself when Marashu is going down the next day no matter what.

[skitter30]

well that's concerning then, because I'm town, and I was townreading Mena

what was the point of this post then

[skitter30]

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I don't think Menalque's slot is scum because of that. At least not for that reason. The reason I'm saying that is... he knew everyone SRs Marashu and we were going to flip Marashu D2 regardless even if he pushed GWu. If both Marashu and Menalque are scum, what does mafia gain out of such move? I don't think this move makes sense from scum!Menalque's point of view, to put the spotlight on himself when Marashu is going down the next day no matter what.

they gain a day and their partner doesn't get lynched
that's kinda exactly what scum are wont to do

[Maduisha]

Okay, but if the partner goes down immediately after the move, how does it help their win condition? Their numbers are halved right after. I'm sorry, I think I'm missing something important.

[Datisi]

well that's concerning then, because I'm town, and I was townreading Mena

what was the point of this post then

that from ~my~ pov it doesn't add up

i didn't say anything from your pov is wrong

i'm still trying to work it out

[Maduisha]

I'm going to assume scum!Marashu and scum!Menalque for the following reflection:

So, like... scum!Menalque has some bad looks his way but nobody is scumreading him hard. His partner is most likely to get the rope D1, although there's a town player acting scummy, so he decides to push for the lynch of the townie to save his partner. Now his partner is doomed to be lynched D2

and

scum!Menalque has all eyes on him for derailing the lynch. So, he still loses his partner and also loses credibility. How does this benefit the mafia?

I get that the mafia gets to be whole during the first night, but is it really worth it? I don't know if his slot is scum, but certainly not because of what happened with GWu, I'd say. If Marashu is scum, I'd rule out Malakittens from PoE, even.

[Marashu]

Wow, ok, the day's just starting and I'm already L-2.

I have a reason for thinking that I was wrong about skitt and that she is town. Also, Mena pivoting from town to town as scum doesn't make sense to me either so Mala is probably town as well. So that means the scum has to be in {clidd, Dat, Mad, word}.

I don't like how Mad jumped onto my wagon right away today. On D1 she jumped from Wu to me back to Wu, but then Mena was talking about how she was super town because of that. I know we can't ask him, but can anyone else explain how that action is town?

clidd/Mad and clidd/word make sense to me. so does Dat/Mad but less so. clidd/Dat doesn't make too much sense to me (clidd clearing Dat was based on Wu being scum, and with that pairing both know that Wu would be town). The dynamic between Dat/Mad on D1 and again today doesn't feel like they would be a team. Dat/word and Mad/word are possible - I don't remember much interaction there of note so I think I'd need to review that.

[Datisi]

I'm interested in hearing that reason.

[Marashu]

I currently think that skitt might be the other mason.

[Datisi]

Let's assume she's not. What's your actual read on skitt?

[Maduisha]

Wow, ok, the day's just starting and I'm already L-2.

I have a reason for thinking that I was wrong about skitt and that she is town. Also, Mena pivoting from town to town as scum doesn't make sense to me either so Mala is probably town as well. So that means the scum has to be in {clidd, Dat, Mad, word}.

I don't like how Mad jumped onto my wagon right away today. On D1 she jumped from Wu to me back to Wu, but then Mena was talking about how she was super town because of that. I know we can't ask him, but can anyone else explain how that action is town?

clidd/Mad and clidd/word make sense to me. so does Dat/Mad but less so. clidd/Dat doesn't make too much sense to me (clidd clearing Dat was based on Wu being scum, and with that pairing both know that Wu would be town). The dynamic between Dat/Mad on D1 and again today doesn't feel like they would be a team. Dat/word and Mad/word are possible - I don't remember much interaction there of note so I think I'd need to review that.

Yes, you are L-2 at the start of the day because one of the two main suspects from D1 is dead and he was town. You ignored Skitter's reasoning when she replied to you when you accused her, yet kept pushing for her. That combined with all the rest of your behavior (asking questions that you never follow up on, the fact that the questions were seemingly targeted at random, and posts made out of information instead of analysis) is what got you there. Why are you surprised?

On the topic of why I jumped between wagons, I voted GWu to pressure him to be more participative and actually explain his reads. He didn't, and your wagon was already a thing and I thought you were scummy as well, so I switched to yours under the belief that nobody except Datisi would support me on wanting to lynch GWu, as suspicious as he was. Then Menalque pointed out that maybe you not claiming a PR could mean you're not scum because you didn't try to fish for a role, and while I thought that was unlikely, I decided to not rule out that possibility and trust my gut that said GWu was scum.

Here's my thought process from voting you to voting GeneralWu:

Spoiler:

I don't buy the claim. He's just saying VT counting on the small chance of people overthinking the fact that he's not trying to fish for PRs before dying. Notice how he doesn't address Skitter's defense of his case on her, and when Clidd pointed out that Skitter delayed his lynch, he ignored the comment. I'd call for a hammer.

I'm also okay with pressuring GWu, because as I said before, I find him the scummiest, despite all the stuff Marashu did. Although I thought only Datisi was with me on that.

I'm fine with this as well because I find him scummy, but I still think flipping Marashu would give us more information. My reasoning here:

Mad, what do u think about possible flips? You said youd rather lynch gw than Mara. but what do u think about the possible results of those lynchs? mara flipping town, mara flipping scum, gw flipping town and gw flipping scum.
I think if mara flips town, that may be indicative that gw may be town too, but i cant rly sriously consider gws game if that was not the case, AT ALL. Im not too sure about what to think from a town flip from gw, since mara has not interacted with the game at all.

If Marashu is scum, I feel like GWu is scum because he's basically only appearing to defend Marashu and himself. And he keeps talking about the scumminess of Marashu that makes him nullread him, but still pushes the town narrative. If Marashu is town, then some of the more active people that tried to push for him from very early on might be looking a bit scummy here instead.

If GWu is scum, I don't really know who else to link with him other than Marashu himself. Maybe Clidd...? But I can't see a clear connection between the two, other than Clidd giving him a town lean early. He had some negative interactions with Datisi and myself, so you could pull from there if he flips town.

I really feel like there's less information for us if we lynch GWu instead of Marashu, so I'd call for a Marashu flip D1 even if I'm scumreading GWu more than him and I'd prefer his lynch. It's just instrumentally better to flip Marashu, I think.

While GWu fluffposts a good deal and disappears, he's more likely to bring us content to work with than Marashu, if you get what I mean.

It mostly is that if GWu flips green, I don't know what to think, because I TR Datisi. But I'm not good at reading associations yet, so I don't know. And it's still true that Marashu ignored Skitter's defense, and the fact that she herself delayed his lynch, but he continues to say she's scum.

Well, I don't know. I have suspected him for a while anyway, might as well trust my gut.

VOTE: GeneralWu

[Marashu]

She was super stubborn about Wu and wouldn't change her vote even as the deadline approached (but enough people were ready to hammer that she probably didn't need to). From that I see she's either super convinced that I'm mafia (as skitt!town) or wanted to keep her distance from Wu (as skitt!scum). That would be weird, though, because when I would flip town she would not have kept her distance at all. Might make sense with skitt/Mena(Mala) if they're each pushing their own wagons hard, but I see that as unlikely.

So maybe it's the fact that I really do think she's the other mason, but I'm having a hard time seeing her as scum right now.

@Mad I'm not surprised at the scrutiny. I'm surprised at how fast my wagon is building. Things have changed since D1 and voting based solely on that suggests that you aren't taking new info into account.

[clidd]

In a few hours I'll be home to review the latest events.

[Maduisha]

She was super stubborn about Wu and wouldn't change her vote even as the deadline approached (but enough people were ready to hammer that she probably didn't need to).

That's NAI.

From that I see she's either super convinced that I'm mafia

This is it.

or wanted to keep her distance from Wu (as skitt!scum). That would be weird, though, because when I would flip town she would not have kept her distance at all.

You're killing your own assumption here, so that was word fluff to make your reasoning look reinforced.

Might make sense with skitt/Mena(Mala) if they're each pushing their own wagons hard, but I see that as unlikely.

This is not impossible, although it's unlikely.

As I see it, you're saying that:

- If Skitter is town= she ("mistakenly") thinks you're scum.
- If Skitter is scum= her behavior doesn't make sense unless she's working with Menalque/Malakittens, for reasons you've pointed yourself.

For a post about defending Skitter, it sure bases her innocence in the fact that you're town quite a bit. Might we test your theory by flipping you first?

[Datisi]

For a post about defending Skitter, it sure bases her innocence in the fact that you're town quite a bit.

is this meant as a bad thing?

[Marashu]

I'd rather catch mafia today than get to LyLo. Flipping just for info is more dangerous D2. If it happens it happens, but if I have to go down, I'd rather make sure my death can draw out one if not both mafia. Flipping me to confirm someone is town is really weak.

[Maduisha]

For a post about defending Skitter, it sure bases her innocence in the fact that you're town quite a bit.

is this meant as a bad thing?

Not inherently, but as I see it, this is scum trying to tie his alignment to someone else's so we might start to think of Skitter/Marashu as a pack in terms of alignment. I said before already that we can gain a TR on Malakittens too if Marashu flips red, so I think it's a good choice despite what he's saying about it being weak.