Mini Normal 2128: Normal Mafia - Game Over!

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.8

Spoiler:

bob3141 (3) - Cat Scratch Fever, Morning Tweet, Allomancer
Skellen (2) - TheTrollie, BBmolla
Espressojet (2) - Espressojet, Paragon
Morning Tweet (1) - iDanyboy
mavsfan41 (1) - geraintm
iDanyboy (1) - mavsfan41

Not voting (3) - Bambi Jay, bob3141, Skellen

(expired on 2020-04-06 10:34:00) remain until day end

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to reach a majority.

[mavsfan41]

@bob3141: I’m extremely confused by your post 297. Could you please clarify exactly what you’re saying? Specifically between your version of scum having to commit instead of sitting in the middle (post 260 for that language) vs Paragon’s more common definition of fence-sitting? My understanding of this is that you think Morning Tweet is town as she voted you back in 105 (vote is still there btw) where if she were scum she wouldn’t have voted you cause scum wouldn’t commit to voting you?
Do I have this correct? If not, could you please clarify.

From my perspective, her vote on you is NAI. With all due respect I think the premise on which you started pressuring her was very weak. Initially the first time you pressured her (prior doubling and tripling down) comes off as a scum-read on you for trying to jump start a wagon with little to no evidence. Scum could jump for a potential mislynch or town could jump on that reading you as scum for using a flimsy premise. The commitment as being a town tell vs scum being in the middle I think is most appropriately put into practice with you committing to your pressuring of Morning Tweet vs Morning Tweet voting you.

@Cat Scratch Fever: in 279, this is in hindsight. When bob3141 first pushed Morning Tweet rather than Dany, sure it wouldn’t be too far fetched to think Dany/bob as a scum pairing at the time, but as bob has committed more and more with a weak premise, I don’t think scum would make that gambit to put themselves in the spotlight like THAT. Inevitably a wagon started on bob3141 cause of his push.

@bob3141: what do you make of Morning Tweet’s Pi 314 post about the make up of your wagon vs 292 post? I tend to agree more with Morning Tweet, but boy, I really do get a town read from you and would find it difficult to think 4 townies jumped on that wagon. By the triple down on Morning Tweet (post 149 is where I would put this cutoff as that’s where I personally thought, scum! wouldn’t push THIS hard before giving up) and before your removal of her vote (post 178) is where I find you most town and if scum were to jump onto your wagon, here’s where they could.

This leaves Allomancer and Paragon within that timeframe. Idk what your cut-off in terms of vote count that you place on “wagon” but Allomancer is the 3rd vote and Paragon’s 4th vote could be the cutoff for wagon. If scum were on your wagon, here’s where I’d look. Any thoughts on either?

[Morning Tweet]

who would you like to lynch instead, bob?

I don't know. I don't have an answer for you :/

no i mean im asking bob what he thinks the lynch should be

[TheTrollie]

why is Espressojet still self-voting?

[Espressojet]

Oh I knew it was for Bob, but it's still relevant to everyone

[Espressojet]

why is Espressojet still self-voting?

Does my parking spot bother you?

[Morning Tweet]

why vote the only person whose alignment you know is good? unless--

[geraintm]

And mav my gut reaction for now is that if para is twn then allom and cat are slightly like town. As early wagon if on town have tendancy to be all town most of the time. As scum if find tend to avoid them. Not strong read from that but a slight read

Trying to look at people's posts.
Espresso is very similar to my previous game with him, so meh

Bob, similar too. Feels pretty samey, got himself lynched that game day 1 because he kept piping up and generated a wagon on himself. Feels here like he isnt worried, either because they are scum or because they know the 1st big wagon hardly ever goes through.
Is putting out a lot of town reads though, which may be relevant later

[mavsfan41]

@gearintm: thanks! Was looking at his more recent posts when he mentioned the whole “scum is likely on the wagon” thing from a couple of pages ago. Also, no mention of me? I remember that game also included me. You day 1 is pretty typical of you day 1 in that last game haha.

@bob: so the only other person would be Cat Scratch Fever. If you get a town read from them, that would mean Morning Tweet’s post about your wagon being entirely town would be the case. Thoughts? Cat Scratch Fever voted you in post 100. That would hardly be considered a wagon at that point. So she was on the wagon but how she joined wouldn’t match up with wagon jumping associated with scum. And if you think so too, perhaps we should look elsewhere rather than your wagon.

Also, holy prods Batman. This is how scum wins. Post more people! The deadline is still a ways away but right now I don’t have anything better than iDanyboy (feeling less and less confident about that one) and BBmola (and Espressojet, but I’m more familiar with his play) as policy lynches so far. Got town reads I feel good about though, so I guess that counts for something.

[geraintm]

recent posts when he mentioned the whole “scum is likely on the wagon” thing from a couple of pages ago. Also, no mention of me? I remember that game also included me. You day 1 is pretty typical of you day 1 in that last game haha.

I was posting that whilst cooking tea and didnt get around to you. It wssnt intentional
I've not been harping on about lurkers this game...because I've been doing a very good job of doing that myself.

[SirCakez]

Prodding iDanyboy

[Cat Scratch Fever]

normaly there is atleast one scum on a wagon of four. Some times you have all town wagons but they always stuggle to get big with out atleast one scum to act as a sort of glue.

Who do you think is scum on your wagon?

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: iDanyBoy

[bob3141]

who would you like to lynch instead bob

currently looking the game as its now the first day of my weekend.


At the moment im feelign bambi. No attempt at scum hunting or real interaction with my wagon.

If he was town i would of thought he would of made some sort of mention of it. As i see him commenting on skellen who at most as got 2 votes so far.

see posts 206 and 209

And yet in his iso he has no follow up. I do not see any mention of either his question not being answered or commenting on what he thought of the answers. Feels like he didnt care about them and made them for appearances. Now if a person asked allot of question you migth understand why there migth not be any follow up on some of them. Or even a trajectory that can be followed. But in his ISo nothing.

Just feels like lurking scum.

First post can be boiled down to "did skellen respond to your scum read" directed at trollie

second posts - give skellen time to explain - i want more from her before focusing there.



@Bambi - what did you think of trollies answers to those two posts? And what to you think of both skeeln and trollie in general

[bob3141]

also bambi what is your view on those voting for my wagon. And of my wagon it self (as in whats your read on me)

[bob3141]

So I just took a look into Bob's posts and didn't really like what I saw.

Lots of prodding other people, a lot of posts starting with "So...", and I looked into other games he's been in.

First two I clicked happened to be scum games of his and the same pattern emerged. Prodding other people more than posting opinions

But I just came from a game where he did the same thing as town day 1, and we mislynched him.

In fact, he was right on target about who scum was. Probably got him lynched.

I'm not intuitive enough to figure out if Bob is scum or not, but I don't think this is what we should push overboard today.

If he's town, I guarantee one scum on his wagon like he says himself

so and basically are my two overused words lol

I think what got me lynched that game was both spotting germ was town with me breaking up his wagon. And spotting all was scum from it. A towny figuring out one scum isnt a problem but towny blocking mislynches is.

[bob3141]

@gearintm: thanks! Was looking at his more recent posts when he mentioned the whole “scum is likely on the wagon” thing from a couple of pages ago. Also, no mention of me? I remember that game also included me. You day 1 is pretty typical of you day 1 in that last game haha.

@bob: so the only other person would be Cat Scratch Fever. If you get a town read from them, that would mean Morning Tweet’s post about your wagon being entirely town would be the case. Thoughts? Cat Scratch Fever voted you in post 100. That would hardly be considered a wagon at that point. So she was on the wagon but how she joined wouldn’t match up with wagon jumping associated with scum. And if you think so too, perhaps we should look elsewhere rather than your wagon.

Also, holy prods Batman. This is how scum wins. Post more people! The deadline is still a ways away but right now I don’t have anything better than iDanyboy (feeling less and less confident about that one) and BBmola (and Espressojet, but I’m more familiar with his play) as policy lynches so far. Got town reads I feel good about though, so I guess that counts for something.

Not currently looking for scum on my wagon. My wagon anlysis was putting an upper limit on the number of scum on it. As it certainly not behaving like a wagon with 2 or more scum on it. And if there is one scum on it then it woudl be vote parkign and not serous effort to actualy push a mislynch through

So far i feel that scum are holding back when it comes to votes.

And there is reasonable chance that this is one of those wagons thats all town. Scum driven wagons are sticky. town driven wagons are flaky.


Jump hoping would match danny. Scum dont want to be on wagons but they end up on them none the less. That first para wagon it did strike me when danny unvoted. Normally town dont care at that time. But scum do tend to hold back. And unvote if a wagon builds. para wagon gets 3 votes and he unvotes before it builds back up to 4. Not a strong tell but was interesting

[bob3141]

@bob3141: I’m extremely confused by your post 297. Could you please clarify exactly what you’re saying? Specifically between your version of scum having to commit instead of sitting in the middle (post 260 for that language) vs Paragon’s more common definition of fence-sitting? My understanding of this is that you think Morning Tweet is town as she voted you back in 105 (vote is still there btw) where if she were scum she wouldn’t have voted you cause scum wouldn’t commit to voting you?
Do I have this correct? If not, could you please clarify.

From my perspective, her vote on you is NAI. With all due respect I think the premise on which you started pressuring her was very weak. Initially the first time you pressured her (prior doubling and tripling down) comes off as a scum-read on you for trying to jump start a wagon with little to no evidence. Scum could jump for a potential mislynch or town could jump on that reading you as scum for using a flimsy premise. The commitment as being a town tell vs scum being in the middle I think is most appropriately put into practice with you committing to your pressuring of Morning Tweet vs Morning Tweet voting you.

@Cat Scratch Fever: in 279, this is in hindsight. When bob3141 first pushed Morning Tweet rather than Dany, sure it wouldn’t be too far fetched to think Dany/bob as a scum pairing at the time, but as bob has committed more and more with a weak premise, I don’t think scum would make that gambit to put themselves in the spotlight like THAT. Inevitably a wagon started on bob3141 cause of his push.

@bob3141: what do you make of Morning Tweet’s Pi 314 post about the make up of your wagon vs 292 post? I tend to agree more with Morning Tweet, but boy, I really do get a town read from you and would find it difficult to think 4 townies jumped on that wagon. By the triple down on Morning Tweet (post 149 is where I would put this cutoff as that’s where I personally thought, scum! wouldn’t push THIS hard before giving up) and before your removal of her vote (post 178) is where I find you most town and if scum were to jump onto your wagon, here’s where they could.

This leaves Allomancer and Paragon within that timeframe. Idk what your cut-off in terms of vote count that you place on “wagon” but Allomancer is the 3rd vote and Paragon’s 4th vote could be the cutoff for wagon. If scum were on your wagon, here’s where I’d look. Any thoughts on either?

Its easily possible its all town sicne its gone no where. Was in game a few monsth ago where nearly every player in the game had there own 4 player wagon by end of day one. 10 wagons, 13 players and 3 of the 10 were scum. The wagons kept flaking as scum where avoiding being on wagon of 4. I do hope me mentioning the most wagons have 1 scum on played a role.


To your first point it has large element of tone to it mixed with progression. Im not great at explaining this style of read. Scum are happy to commit but what they find hard is getting the tone right when trying to lookign liek thre deliberating without simply looking like there sitting on the fence.

You would expect a post more like para. (not sayign it was scummy post) As scum gravitate to scum and town reads. Not see-sawing reads. As most times when scum try it just looks like fence sitting. Im not sure if i exactly explained it right. By para posts i mean weighted on one end and not balancing while slighly going up and down. Like it would tip at any moment but is balanced.

Fencesitting is more like the sew-saw is just rigid as if it has no hinge. as scum already know.

[geraintm]

gone over Mavsfan's posts, to see how they compare to Game 2121
Pretty much the same. Actualy butting heads with the same player in both - Bob - which is weird. But I cannot find anything about the style of posting that feels off.

as for voting for Dany - he goes through a couple of their earlier posts and finds them strange. looking at them now, they feel kinda in keeping with the rest of Dany's post. But I wouldn't have know that at the time.
there is little original thought coming from Dany though. 114 looks at some people's 1st posts, and after that ther eisa question for others about someone and then agreeing with someone else about their posting. nothing about MT since Monday, they've dropped that...

[mavsfan41]

gone over Mavsfan's posts, to see how they compare to Game 2121
Pretty much the same. Actualy butting heads with the same player in both - Bob - which is weird. But I cannot find anything about the style of posting that feels off.

as for voting for Dany - he goes through a couple of their earlier posts and finds them strange. looking at them now, they feel kinda in keeping with the rest of Dany's post. But I wouldn't have know that at the time.
there is little original thought coming from Dany though. 114 looks at some people's 1st posts, and after that ther eisa question for others about someone and then agreeing with someone else about their posting. nothing about MT since Monday, they've dropped that...

Actually last game for a little bit I did suspect bob3141 of scum. This game I actually don’t think he’s scum and didn’t really suspect him at all. I think he’s town and scum!bob wouldn’t have attempted on multiple occasions to push Morning Tweet as much as he did. So in this game I can have active discussions cause I think he’s town and he’s done a MUCH better job posting imo than last game where it was just “hey player x, how do you feel about player Y’s post” without any content of his own which felt super scummy and engaging just to engage. (This is what Aloratom did who ended up being scum.)

@bob: thanks for the clarification.

[Allomancer]

VOTE: iDanyBoy

What's the reasoning behind this vote?

[Bambi Jay]

@Bob: Its less lurking 'scum' and more lurking to just read this on the backburner while I'm covering shifts for some of my coworkers getting sick at work.

Worst part is it's the normal spring flu but people are asshats trying to spread rumors to get the store screwed over.

Basically I'm letting day 1 go through since it seems slow and I'm gonna do myself a review during night 1 while I hopefully got free time. Just keeping notes ATM.

My vote is probably going to be unused today if I'm honest since I feel like I'll have more info to work with knowing where the rest of you are going.

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: iDanyBoy

What's the reasoning behind this vote?

bob's odds of scum are going down a bit imo, plus many ppl have voiced theyre against the wagon. im willing to let it go in favour of a new discussion: what shall we do with resident lynchbait

im def gonna read game 2121 later today

[iDanyboy]

I'm feeling better about bob I like his Post 292, I think scum would use it as a point to push someone. I'm liking MT's post more now, not leaning scum on him anymore UNVOTE: .

[iDanyboy]

VOTE: BB

Where I feel the best.

Town

bob3141
TheTrollie
Morning Tweet

Unsure

mavsfan41
Skellen
Cat Scratch Fever
Bambi Jay

Scummy

Paragon
Allomancer

More Scummy

Espressojet
geraintm
BBmolla