Mini 2127 - Fairly Special [Game Over]

[Titus]

@Titus - can you link me some of your town games? I tried to do a meta check, but you've been scum in every game I clicked, lol.

Try something a bit less ancient history. So almost any game this year that finished.

[EspressoPatronum]

@Titus - can you link me some of your town games? I tried to do a meta check, but you've been scum in every game I clicked, lol.

Try something a bit less ancient history. So almost any game this year that finished.

Such as?

[EspressoPatronum]

@Adorable

I had you as a townlean because I strongly disagree with Raven's methods. He did something similar to me (ie. A condescending push) when I was town and he was scum, so his push on you suggested your towniness to me.

Mastina, on the other hand, put forward a compelling case against you. She is the reason I am now willing to vote you.

If your wagon continues to grow, I highly suggest you ignore Titus' advice and claim. Egix has rightfully pointed out that claiming loses some of its usefulness in a role madness game, but I'm willing to wait for your claim until I make up my mind.

If anyone doubts this is scum, just read these interactions.

EP: I townread Adorable.
Also EP: Claim, then I'll vote you.
Also Also EP: Mastina's regurgitated case is suddenly compelling after the hydra (now Gobble) leaves the game.
Also Also Also EP: My mind isn't made up.

EP just wants Adorable's claim.

The blatant mischaracterization is getting old.

[Adorable]

mastina hadn't properly read the rules.

Hey can you really blame me? I did skim the rules to see if there were any special mechanics that would make me not want to stay in a game I didn't sign up for but nothing of that sort stood out to me and most rulesets are pretty much identical and the tidbit about your role was a small easily-missed detail.

Pretty sure that Mastina now thinks that STRQ and I are both the role flavourers, which is why she offers to townbloc with us in 18.

Nah, not Turkey's slot. You, yes, got the meaning immediately, but Turkey's slot was an instant lock for the townbloc because if you look at page one it is painfully transparently obvious that you two are town. Like, you just have that instant sort of :vibe:. Role had nothing to do with it. Just the sort of instantly locked townbloc that you just...get sometimes.

whether her Adorable tunnel is noise.

It's not a tunnel and it's not noise.

I am telling you.
There is a night and day difference between Adorable's play in this game and every towngame of hers previously, where her play this game is a dead-ringer to her scumgame.
Even if we disregard the meta--which is a fucking stupid idea but sure let's humor it--Adorable has tripped multiple newbscum tells and multiple alarm bells that are irrelevant to her meta and have purely to do with play that would be tripping alarm bells from any player, even you, doing them. Things literally any player on site would do, and I would scumread them for doing it.

I've explained why 74 is a suspicious entrance. It is an artificial post that clashes with the rest of the game. It is out of place, displaying confusion in a tone that says it's a complaint, and does nothing to try and fix it.
I've explained why 112 is a suspicious start to the game. It is not only omgus'ing her main attacker (me), but also forcing content onto me, and disregarding all other posters in the game and giving nothing. (Of note, most of Adorable's "scumhunting" this game has been hyper-aggressive hyper-specific points that were forced, and if you want me to link to other instances of this I can.) It is self-evidently a stretch and is something Adorable forced for the sake of the read. To have reasons match what she wanted to push, and that push was on someone who found her suspect.

You might think newbies wouldn't push me as scum; they can and do. Pushing me as scum might not be the smartest choice, but newbscum aren't always smart enough to know it's not the smartest choice. You might think that they'd be too intimidated, but I was already scumreading Adorable. When I was already scumreading the slot, there's already intimidation and panic in it. When you have someone scumreading you that is a known, respected player, and you know that scumread is correct, and you are a newer player, what is a common response to it?

That's right--to attack them back. To omgus them. That was literally what the original basis of omgus as a scumtell was, the theory that scum would panic-attack their attacker.

But let's go beyond those two posts, shall we?

I'm scum hunting and you're going to have to elaborate on the scum read.

This is a classical newbscum post where they insist that they are scumhunting, and do the 'why me = fry me' thing of asking why they are being scumread.

So your scum read on me is because I played different than I did in that UPick game I played with you? This was my 3rd game I played here and players new to the forum change their playstyle. I don't like how your scum read on me is because I'm playing different and your play right now reminds me of scum Yumeko Kirari from that Waifu game when they were scum reading a town player who played different from their other town game and I also did not like the omgus you did on me.

I've already shown you why Adorable's claim here is false--her townplay in every single previous towngame of hers was nearly identical. If you look at any given towngame of hers, it is nearly identical to any other given towngame of hers, and yet her play here is different from those, so her insistence on her play being different, having evolved, is just an outright fabrication because her play

isn't

different in different towngames of hers, but IS different this game.

Beyond that, the "you remind me of when X did Y" thing is a trait that I'd expect to be a minor scumtell. 60-40, as in, 40% of the time yes it does come from town but 60% of the time it's a scum tactic, to try and frame actions in a light where they can paint their opposition as something that's easier for them to defend against.

And my town game is still the same I'm doing here. You scum reading me for playing different is a bad way to scum way a player. Scum hunting is more about figuring out a player's objective.

What happened to her play being different, as she claimed earlier? She changed her story here. In 168, she said "I've played more games now, I've changed", but 173 is saying that she's the same. (She isn't.) Also want to point out that by this point I had already explained that my case on her wasn't meta and her framing it as purely being meta is also a strawman.

177 is repeating both 173 and 168.

I know that staying silent as scum is better. It's better to stay silent as scum so that way they don't attract attention but I am town and as town there were some posts that were not clear to me that needed to be answered and I did not want to ignore them.

Funnily enough, for someone who says staying silent as scum is better, Adorable has stayed awful silent! I don't mean in terms of total posts. I mean in terms of giving reads. Of the twelve players in this game, how many has she actually given a

read

on?

She scumreads me. Okay. Who else does she have a read on? She's asked questions to others, but like.

Where are Adorable's reads on any players in the game other than me?

At the time 198 was posted, there were none. None. Not a single non-mastina read. She asked questions, sure, but she didn't state a read on Team Hydra, she didn't state a read on Titus, she didn't state a read on

anyone

outside of a scumread on me. It's not until 206 that she votes Team Hydra, and it isn't until 313 that she states a (rather opportunistic) scumread on eyestott.

She has given a total of three reads this entire game--an OMGUS'd scumread on me; an OMGUS'd scumread on Team hydra; an OMGUS'd scumread on eyestott. She's not provided a single read outside of the players who have voted her.

So that sounds an awful lot like staying silent and it sounds an awful lot like not actually scumhunting to me.

Adorable can claim the case on her is all meta (it's not) all she wants. Adorable can claim that the meta case on her is wrong (it's not) all she wants. Adorable can claim that she's being OMGUS'd (she's the one who's done the OMGUS'ing) all she wants. Adorable can claim that she's giving content when as scum the ideal play would be to not give it all she wants (when she's not giving content and is fitting the profile she says scum would). Adorable can claim that she's scumhunting (when she's really not) all she wants.

But at a certain point you gotta face the facts and realize that as much as she might claim the above to be true, they aren't actually the case and when you actually look at her actions it becomes clear she's just scum.

mastina talks about my #74 post displays confusion in a tone that says it's a complaint and there is nothing scummy about that and this is not a complaint post. Page 2 there were serious votes with some rvs votes afterwards and then on page 3 there some votes which looked like rvs and I asked did I miss rvs. If I did not miss rvs then why would players continue to make rvs on page 3 when there were some votes on page 2 that were serious votes? This whole thing doesn't make sense.

Page 2 shows some players were out of rvs but on page 3 more players ignored this and just continued to do rvs. I was the one who voted you first and you omgus me with a vote. Your vote was on EP and when you made your reads you said you were not convinced EP is scum and why put him on the bottom of the list on the scum pile when he should have been on the null reads? I don't like talking about wifom because me being scum makes no sense because I would have done a sheep vote or not vote anyone at all. I can remember two of my completed games I have been accused of being scum for making forced posts and I was town. Don't focus on forced posts because alot of town gets accused for that and instead you need to look at the objectives in a players vote and that's why your vote and your read on EP was questionable.

You keep saying I am newb scum when I am not. I know how to play as scum and I know exactly what I would have done if I were scum and it would not be to vote you. Why would a scum player vote you like that when that would have brought alot of attention to them? Scum would want to make a vote that doesn't bring out attention or not vote at all. You said when you expressed your scum read on me you said I was already panicking when I was not. If I was scum it would have made alot more sense for me to town read you to get on your good side instead of getting on your bad side. It was your vote on EP that was questionable for me. My completed scum game two of the players were suspicious of me and I put them on my town reads to get on their good side.

You said I've played more games now that I've changed is false because I have experience in other forums and why did you ignore my post on #275? You have been saying me not giving reads but this is only day 1 and don't expect my reads to be correct. Literally in most of my games I don't give reads on day 1 unless if I'm asked because sometimes I will end up town reading a scum player on day 1 and next day I will more likely have to change my reads. I can only lean town on 2 slots and with the situation I am in I will more likely be changing my reads again. Next, you say I have been staying silent when I have said earlier I am not an active member. Literally on all of my completed games I have failed to make more than 50 posts and I have never made over 100 posts in my completed games.

[Adorable]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11693629]I'm going to look at the players list and check interactions on my slot.

I'm going to look at this right now and check interactions now that I'm back.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

@Adorable

I had you as a townlean because I strongly disagree with Raven's methods. He did something similar to me (ie. A condescending push) when I was town and he was scum, so his push on you suggested your towniness to me.

Mastina, on the other hand, put forward a compelling case against you. She is the reason I am now willing to vote you.

If your wagon continues to grow, I highly suggest you ignore Titus' advice and claim. Egix has rightfully pointed out that claiming loses some of its usefulness in a role madness game, but I'm willing to wait for your claim until I make up my mind.

If anyone doubts this is scum, just read these interactions.

EP: I townread Adorable.
Also EP: Claim, then I'll vote you.
Also Also EP: Mastina's regurgitated case is suddenly compelling after the hydra (now Gobble) leaves the game.
Also Also Also EP: My mind isn't made up.

EP just wants Adorable's claim.

The blatant mischaracterization is getting old.

It's not really a mischaracterization. It's pretty accurate.

VOTE: Espresso

[Titus]

VOTE: EP

[gobbledygook]

EspressoPatronum

Are you saying in 446 that Raven used a condescending push against you here?

[gobbledygook]

As in this game?

[EspressoPatronum]

EspressoPatronum

Are you saying in 446 that Raven used a condescending push against you here?

As in this game?

In MM2 as Miss Lynch.

[gobbledygook]

EspressoPatronum

Are you saying in 446 that Raven used a condescending push against you here?

As in this game?

In MM2 as Miss Lynch.

Why would Enter’s habit there make Adorable town here? Do you think Enter only uses a condescending push against town?

[Sujimichi]

Everything I do is confirming your misconception. You're actively resisting the only way I know how to get you out of that tunnel -- by engaging with you. So you're either town tunneling me hard or you're scum trying for a mislynch. In the event that I am wrong on the latter, I would like to engage with you to help correct the former.

If you insist on scumreading me this strongly without engaging in a good-faith dialogue, I ask that you at least do a blank-slate re-evaluation of me later.

What are your current reads?

[Sujimichi]

BP's vote was highly scum indicative. He complained about the pace of the game, which was slow. He also didn't vote anyone who was actively posting at the time. Those two together are basically a neon sign that BP just wants to lurk away. I highlighted this. EP agreed and we voted him. Then EP bails after picking a fight with obvtown Chronos.

I am rather annoyed at how often I have to repeat this.

Gobbles is distancing from the pair rather than scumhunting IMO.

Apologies for adding to your annoyance as I read earlier what your rationale for BP was; however, I wanted you to summarize it again for consistency's sake. I do not think your rationale for gobbledygook is accurate.

Why is Chronos "obvtown?"

[Titus]

Great, you can disagree with me on Gobble. Do you feel my summary of EP's posting was accurate?

Chronos is obvtown from a quick read of his ISO. Scumhunting. Unafraid to be wrong and unabashedly so. He's focused on the whole game too. By far he's my biggest TR. Any reason why you're not TRing him? That'd be a unique position.

[Sujimichi]

Great, you can disagree with me on Gobble. Do you feel my summary of EP's posting was accurate?

Chronos is obvtown from a quick read of his ISO. Scumhunting. Unafraid to be wrong and unabashedly so. He's focused on the whole game too. By far he's my biggest TR. Any reason why you're not TRing him? That'd be a unique position.

Thank you. I did not express that I was not reading Chronos as Town. I have, in fact, not mentioned a read on Chronos and do not wish to at this moment.

I would like to hear from EspressoPatronum before I comment on your summary of his posting.

[Titus]

His response is in post 452.

[Titus]

Also, *grumbles* on Chronos hedge.

[Sujimichi]

The blatant mischaracterization is getting old.

Can you point out how this summary is a mischaracterization of your posting?

[Sujimichi]

Also, *grumbles* on Chronos hedge.

Apologies; however, given the level and amount of Townreads it is a useful barometer for me.

[gobbledygook]

I

was

responding to things but then my browser ate the post. So now I’m going to bed.

[alimdia]

Very quick catch up post

gobble I unvoted Adora cos it was my RVS vote, and I didnt want the wagon getting too big


@eyescott
letting people know you are role flavourer seems like a legit reason for your 'hints' - but how exactly does their reaction have to be for them to be scummy?
Like.. how you concluded anything from your role flavour hints to people?

Can someone explain to me why Alimdia is being so universally town read?

I don't think I am? From a quick skim I'm in some people's null piles.

[alimdia]

Will have better post after work, but also keen on seeing Adora's posts

[alimdia]

Why did you vote STRQ here when you had been saying EP/BP was scum this entire time and had been trying to get Mastina to vote BP/EP?

Because my scumcore is EP and BP. My other guesses were your slot and mastina. I'm much weaker there. If I can't get my core, I'd rather use my vote to scumhunt the edges.

Even though you said you wanted to work with Mastina?

Yes. Working with mastina, at least for a little while, helps me clarify my read on her and see how willing she actually is to push BP+EP and whether her Adorable tunnel is noise. If the Adorable tunnel is noise, then there's t v t noise or t v S noise. (I doubt it's S v S.)

What is your definition on tunneling here? At one point I think she was, but now she's given reads on other people.

[alimdia]

Gobble from 0 to 10, how much you enjoy playing scum and again from 0 to 10 how much effort do you usually put in your scum games?

Don't lie because I might find out if you do.

Last town game I played with him he definitely put way less effort in and way less posts

[alimdia]

things to note: (null)

STRQ vs Chronos became gobble TR'ing Chronos upon replacement.
BP- ulti lurky



slightly scummy:

Rabid Schnauzer wagons everywhere.

ADorable is too busy defending herself, maybe discuss something like the Titus - BP+EP read. Or the eyescott flavour. Or egix?