Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[Maduisha]

The question would be: why Scum!Marashu wouldn't give up the pressure of playing scum ? wouldn't it be more natural for him to gradually lose interest until he was lynched without defense ? why when he got L-1 he didn't try to self-hammer to avoid associations with his partner, keeping in mind that most players had his slot as the main option of the day ? wouldn't it be easier to be lynched, finish his participation in the game and try to focus on other leisure activities that take less time and are easier to manage ? why insist on something that is slightly hindering his sleep hours? well, these are the types of questions that lead me to build this emotional read and consider a potential AI factor in this interpretation of the facts.

Hm, I feel like mafia-sided players are less likely to give up, but maybe I'm wrong. My idea is that the sense of "pertaining to a team" is a strong motivator for a person not to give up on an activity. If there's any hope to save the situation and move on, you take it because you want what is best for the team. This is emphasized by the presence of direct team communication, which is something that the town team lacks. Town does not know who is town, so when a townie is cornered, I'd say they might be more likely to say "fine, whatever" and move onto something different. Just look at what happened to GeneralWu. We insisted to him that we wanted his side of the story, but he had already given up in his mind. There was no sense of teamwork in his mindset, he was thinking "oh well, they are wrong and I couldn't do anything about it, I'll just meme and be over with it." A scum has a partner they can talk to at any time, and over the course of days, surely a bond is made, and they will at the very least, do their best to prevent the loss for their partner.

While lynching oneself to cut any possible extra information being given to town is a tool I'm aware of because Ceejay used it against town in my first game, I think clinging to life by claiming vanilla townie and hoping for town to be paranoid of being wrong is also a valid strategy. After all, people will assume a scum that is hopeless about their situation will try to rolefish before falling, and that's the exact kind of mindgame we ought to expect from this social game, isn't it?

[Maduisha]

2. I will be more objective in the answer: let's consider that I am wrong, and my theory of a Scum!SE is not correct. This would imply suspicion about non-SE players, like you and Word. Now trying to do a PoE on this, considering you town and Marashu scum, the combination would be Scum!Marashu + Scum!Word. Does this pair make sense to you ? Word voted for Marashu on day 1 (1233) and put him on L-1 today (1361), while Marashu voted for him too (1366).

You are excluding me (because of TR) and yourself (because you are you). I understand where you come from, but I don't want to discard you for now. While you are a newbie slot, you also have some experience, and also are a person that usually posts in-depth analysis that sway people to townread you. I do believe you capable of directing a newbie scum. I am also paranoid of pocketing from you because we played together before, and you TR me very quickly in this game. So while I don't see scum indicative content in your posts, I am wary of you. I hope this feels reasonable for you.

I don't want to discard the SE theory so easily either, but please understand that I want to consider all possibilities. That includes Word and you, yes.

[word321]

I'm back, will read

[word321]

2. I will be more objective in the answer: let's consider that I am wrong, and my theory of a Scum!SE is not correct. This would imply suspicion about non-SE players, like you and Word. Now trying to do a PoE on this, considering you town and Marashu scum, the combination would be Scum!Marashu + Scum!Word. Does this pair make sense to you ? Word voted for Marashu on day 1 (1233) and put him on L-1 today (1361), while Marashu voted for him too (1366).

You are excluding me (because of TR) and yourself (because you are you). I understand where you come from, but I don't want to discard you for now. While you are a newbie slot, you also have some experience, and also are a person that usually posts in-depth analysis that sway people to townread you. I do believe you capable of directing a newbie scum. I am also paranoid of pocketing from you because we played together before, and you TR me very quickly in this game. So while I don't see scum indicative content in your posts, I am wary of you. I hope this feels reasonable for you.

I don't want to discard the SE theory so easily either, but please understand that I want to consider all possibilities. That includes Word and you, yes.

I think clidd scum makes sense with a skitter scum (basically for an apparent lack of interaction btw then, even though skitter been in clidds list since his first version in day 1, and the feeling they are enhancing their standing one way or the other in the game); but I've been ignoring that for now, since I consider that to be 2 steps ahead of the current game state.

[word321]

And that would need a town mara

[Maduisha]

I am very bad at associations and looking for pairs. The main counter-association I had was Marashu-Menalque/Malakittens, because I think if both were scum, Menalque's move was unnecessarily suicidal. That being said, Skitter brought to my attention that it is entirely possible for scum to derail a lynch of their partner even if they get all the attention the next day, because it can be seen as "too scummy to be scum" (or wifom?) and help them let it slide.

But I confess that even with that point from Skitter, I have the strong gut feeling that Malakitten's slot is town because of that play from Menalque.

[word321]

With that in mind, the question is: why is Marashu town ?

It seems you changed from Inconsequential Town/Lazy Scum to Busy Town. I dnt have much to add here that others havent already said; the post is mainly over the activity issue and behavior associated to activities outside the game. R u townreading the current mara (recent activity on day 2)?

[word321]

I am very bad at associations and looking for pairs. The main counter-association I had was Marashu-Menalque/Malakittens, because I think if both were scum, Menalque's move was unnecessarily suicidal. That being said, Skitter brought to my attention that it is entirely possible for scum to derail a lynch of their partner even if they get all the attention the next day, because it can be seen as "too scummy to be scum" (or wifom?) and help them let it slide.

But I confess that even with that point from Skitter, I have the strong gut feeling that Malakitten's slot is town because of that play from Menalque.

...I actually didnt consider that possibility (Mara-Men/Mala not being a thing bc it would be too obvious). I havent rly thought on any partners besides. What would make sense here for u? Dats/clidd?

[word321]

My most disliked post of his would be this one:

I tried to explain my reasoning on 1394, on the second part. The reason for the "mason" properly is for a personal hypothesis (wich I won't disclose), wich would benefit town. Im sorry for the format; I need to improve on my ability to format text in a read-friendly way.

[Maduisha]

I am very bad at associations and looking for pairs. The main counter-association I had was Marashu-Menalque/Malakittens, because I think if both were scum, Menalque's move was unnecessarily suicidal. That being said, Skitter brought to my attention that it is entirely possible for scum to derail a lynch of their partner even if they get all the attention the next day, because it can be seen as "too scummy to be scum" (or wifom?) and help them let it slide.

But I confess that even with that point from Skitter, I have the strong gut feeling that Malakitten's slot is town because of that play from Menalque.

...I actually didnt consider that possibility (Mara-Men/Mala not being a thing bc it would be too obvious). I havent rly thought on any partners besides. What would make sense here for u? Dats/clidd?

I just said that I am bad at seeing partners and associations, I'm sorry. I don't know who's Marashu's partner, but I consider essentially everyone except Datisi (his behavior feels town to me from the beginning) and Malakittens (because of what I already explained). Yes, it's the broadest pool you'll find, but I have to admit that I am clueless at the moment.

[word321]

The way he was factoring in the numbers for remaining players/mafia. To me it was coming off like he know how I would flip and is trying to reason things based on that rather than trying to figure out whether I am scum or not.

@Mad what are your thoughts on word right now? He only has about 20 or so more posts than me right now, and a bunch of those are EBWOP, so it shouldn't take too long to review.

At first you seemed to have a reasonable suspect on me, with some issues I tried to point out. The only strong claim wich I saw on your post was my behavior on your lynch on day 2. Of course, me being myself, I'm biased and all that. But it seems to me that now u r trying to build a case out of thin air, and that is no good.
Im a

Replacement

if u forgot. I began playing on 547. And my style of writing, if u havent noticed, are wall of texts. That is completely ignoring the content of each post by itself, and how we already discussed that post count aint exactly a problem by itself.
And again, no, I don know ur flip, I'm just stating the possibility of an outcome, and how it can change the game, for one side AND another.
So, please, try to make a case. Talk of my behavior, of previous posts on my ISO, etc, but dnt build a case on thin air.

[word321]

I just said that I am bad at seeing partners and associations, I'm sorry. I don't know who's Marashu's partner, but I consider essentially everyone except Datisi (his behavior feels town to me from the beginning) and Malakittens (because of what I already explained). Yes, it's the broadest pool you'll find, but I have to admit that I am clueless at the moment.

Thats ok. Why exactly do u tr dats then?

[word321]

I actually would go for town instead of scum, but that's almost by PoE; mainly for his interaction with men. But I dnt rly have that much xp with that kind of things in this forum in particular.
Sometimes there are unspoken rules about some kind of practices, i.e., not lying about things outside of the game, or things like that, but it is a thin thread. So I kind of would buy willingly those kind of "excuses" until scammed. I dnt think that exactly applies to that interaction, but it takes practice at least to do something like that.

[word321]

On a side note, I've been having problems loading the forum recently too.

[Maduisha]

I just said that I am bad at seeing partners and associations, I'm sorry. I don't know who's Marashu's partner, but I consider essentially everyone except Datisi (his behavior feels town to me from the beginning) and Malakittens (because of what I already explained). Yes, it's the broadest pool you'll find, but I have to admit that I am clueless at the moment.

Thats ok. Why exactly do u tr dats then?

Essentially this that I proposed early on during the game:

I'm reading Datisi as town after all this. My reasons are that he's not feeling pressured to make new reads even though he was accused of the fact that he's not pushing anyone at all being scummy in him. Not reacting is also a reaction, if that makes sense. He's also keeping the options open, but not in a fence-sitting way, since he has expressed two people he firmly believes as town and excluded them from the equation to further narrow the PoE.

And the anger thing, as I said in my reply to TRQ, I think is something scum would have breathed deeply and tried to keep hidden if it puts them further into SR territory for being out of character for their town selves.

Summarized: scum cares about appearances. Datisi is not acting in a way that indicates he values how he appears, or show desire of self preservation. Examples would be:

- He was faced with accusations about his behavior being different from his town meta and he did not try to alter it to fix that perception, nor rush reads to appear more towny.

- He did not hide is anger, which triggered the people that were seeing him as scummy to further read him as scum "because Datisi doesn't usually react like that." Again, scum cares about appearances and he did not care to dig his hole deeper.

- He does what he says. He established that he trusts Menalque and that he is inclined to sheep him. He did not care that sheeping people might look scummy later, he just put his trust on his TR, and when he said "vote GWu", he just did exactly that. Of course, he had his own reasons to suspect GWu, but the act of moving the vote was the act of trust in itself, because he wanted to flip both slots regardless at that moment.

That is all. I am leaving for the night now, because it is very late where I live, but the forum has been refusing to load appropriately so that I could finish this earlier and go to bed.

[Malakittens]

Anybody else having issues with loading times on the forum?

Me too, but at least today it's just some delay. Yesterday I had trouble to connect to the forum at all.

It just took me fifteen minutes to make it load, be glad i didn’t put in the towel before this post.

You have scumness enough by urself, and u r in the middle of 2 strong scum candidates of mine, skitt and men. U being town would lead to skitt, u being scum would lead to mala. U, again, r both informative and scummy. Now, we have a proportion of 5/2 town/scum today;

tomorrow, it will be 3/2 if we misslynch u, a Lylo wich the possible town candidates may have begun to be planted today.

So, as I see, the scumness of ur slot wont go anywhere; I believed we should have investugated thoroughly the other slots. We are talking about a Datisi, a clidd, not just mala/mara. There are 2 scums, even if u r one there must be another, if we agree to lynch a mar we may either or save a Lylo, if scum now cant go back on his word, or lynch with a 2/6, even more excluding the townread by everyone (wich may as well just die tomorrow), and 2/5 as an individual probability excluding ones own scum possibility. Thats almost as good as a lylo by itself.

This feels like a scumslip - it looks like you are confirming that lynching me will bring us to LyLo. But I'll admit it's a bit difficult to parse this.

@Mala what are your thoughts on word?

@Dat, you voted Mala to get that conversation going, but you haven't put on any pressure besides that. Where are you going with it?

I have to actually go into looking into that slot. I just don’t have the brainpower.

@Dat, you voted Mala to get that conversation going, but you haven't put on any pressure besides that. Where are you going with it?

Can't put pressure on someone who literally isn't here. I've laid out my reasons for the vote. When they return, I'm expecting some sorta response. If the response is good, we move on to Other Things. If it's not, I will make them hang. Easy as that.

I can tell you from experience I’m not an easy slot to hang and I’ll even be more of a challenge now.

ok that is a case and a half and i'm not sure if i have the needed amount of wakefulness to fully soak it in right now

my question right now being: who do you think

is

scum then?

Agree, but what i did read of it I actually liked and don’t see scum!clidd going into all that effort to protect neither a buddy nor town so i think he’s town

[Malakittens]

i'm wondering, as clidd and mala pointed out, if scum repeatedly point out the mason thing

They wouldn’t.

yeah that's kinda it , which is problematic
but the gamestate is also p complacent with a mara lynch, which worries me

Mara went up to L-1 before most players got to even post for D2. I just don’t see the whole reasoning for a scum!mara. I’m sticking to my gut town read from the few posts i read for D1 and D2 posting.

Unless unless exactly mala/word but 1) i have some weird ass town gutping on word and 2) i remember thinking there's no way it's mala/word and even tho i don't remember the exact posts rn i maybe will dig them up when it's not 4:30am

Anyway ye

Explain to me about the gutpinging town for word. I’m not following.

My reads however in no order, but the first and last.
{Scum —-> Town}

{Datsisi, word, skitter, Mara, Marda, clidd}

So... I'm still scum because of page 1 RoLeFisHiNg, there's a townread on clidd now, the ones in the middle are not in order... Where did the Mara townread go?

I like clidd’ s analysis for town!mara. Yeah I might not have liked some of his D1 posts, but that post literally screamed town to me. Again clidd could be like a Mastina3.0 scum game, but right now I’m liking a town!clidd.

As for your read. I legitimately can’t explain why you’re scum, but you are scum. I’m also freaking exhausted right now to the point I’m ready to take a nice long nap and wake up to the world going back to normal. I’m so freaking.over.it.

I also didn’t have a good feeling about Clidd post to TRQ mason claim. It felt like fishing and then Datisi post I had the same feeling.

My reads however in no order, but the first and last.
{Scum —-> Town}

{Datsisi, word, skitter, Mara, Marda, clidd}

I know you said today will be worse than yesterday, but can you please explain what exactly changed to make clidd your top town pick? And what do you mean that the rest are in no order? When will you have time to post?

Deadline is going to be mid-Sunday my time, a bit under 3 days from now. Do we want to ask for a 1-day extension so that Mala will have time during the weekend to post/catch up?

i mean ... he literally said if you're mislynched it's lylo
how is that a scumslip?

The way he was factoring in the numbers for remaining players/mafia. To me it was coming off like he know how I would flip and is trying to reason things based on that rather than trying to figure out whether I am scum or not.

@Mad what are your thoughts on word right now? He only has about 20 or so more posts than me right now, and a bunch of those are EBWOP, so it shouldn't take too long to review.

I don’t really know if a deadline extension will help. I actually do have off tomorrow and Sunday, but sandwiching in on Saturday a shift at work and then a paramedic rotation. I also have a ridiculously early zoom meeting i have to be up for so if I can somehow manage to not fall asleep after it.

I believe that we need more clarification about Malakittens at the moment. I feel a different energy from her slot.

I would like to understand the full reason for her suspicions on Datisi. I feel like something is being omitted (and I hate when someone is hiding information from me).

[Datisi]

I legitimately can’t explain why you’re scum, but you are scum.

k

[skitter30]

While exploring other options is fine with me, I don't want to let go of Marashu if these possibilities are still plausible. Especially not because the volume of his post history is definitely not the only reason why he's scummy.

+1

[skitter30]

The way he was factoring in the numbers for remaining players/mafia. To me it was coming off like he know how I would flip and is trying to reason things based on that rather than trying to figure out whether I am scum or not.

But i've seen townies do this like ... all the time
I do it all the time, as either alignment
I kinda dont like you calling this a scumslip

[Datisi]

Explain to me about the gutpinging town for word. I’m not following.

I legitimately can’t explain why word's town, but he's town.

Joking aside, his posts seem genuine and I can't really see an agenda behind them.

[skitter30]

Ok posting is a pain rn, i'll try again later

[skitter30]

I think clidd is clearing mara for bad reasons

[Datisi]

I am legit tempted to clear Mara on the basis of Mala doing their weird reads
1) i know that train of thought didn't work on d1 and 2) the only partners then would be skitter or maybe madu, both of which scare me

But the temptation is there still

[Karnage]

mod note

Vote count incoming...