[SETUP] Undertale Semi-Open

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I misread some stuff

Neutral still seems objectively worse than genocide.

[Jingle]

Oops.
If three townies are spared and the dayvig doesn't hit scum, mafia get beyond-parity for the day four decision. That's uh, probably not good?
Although, they can't do anything that ends the game and they are still accountable for their behavior. HMMMM

If 3 town are spared and the daykill hit town, don't the spared players make the decision anyway? Mafia doesn't have control.

It would be funny to say that scum only get to NK after a spare, but as soon as someone is spared the scum get all the NK's they would have gotten before.

I endorse this as an option. Sort of a "As long as you're killing you have the momentum to be the only people killing" gig.

I could also see "Whenever a player dies, they submit a nightkill before joining the deadthread. If genocide is reached, the living player with the most votes is killed." although tbh I think SS's suggestion is more spicy.

So town is always forced to lynch onto a Beloved Princess and lose on a miss, making it equivalent to the "1 shot to guess who the mafia is" from the second run of the setup.

I think you should change this to "A town lynch or No Lynch after New Home is reached is a mafia victory." That gets rid of the ambiguity of the no lynch scenario and cuts out any questions about the uncommon BP role.

[popsofctown]

If three town are spared and the daykill hit town, then day 4 (9-3-3-1):(3) so scum control the game thread 3:2, and day 4 is before the spared players get returned to the game. So that's why I put in the Purgatory trick that continues to ensure town controls the decision. (it is possible to let scum control the decision and let the spared players return and vengelynch them for doing that in a scummy way, but that's kind of Wild).

I like the pacifist rewording.

I'm mulling over the idea of a mechanic where the town gets some kind of bonus if the first fight of the game hits scum, no matter which dayphase that occurs. I'm thinking that could be a good way to incentivize neutral.

[Something_Smart]

Why is it bad that scum control the game there? It's kinda interesting

[popsofctown]

Ok, I'll try it then!

That surely makes neutral require even more buffing, but maybe setting it back some gives me room to pop in something dramatic.

[Hectic]

If three town are spared and the daykill hit town, then day 4 (9-3-3-1):(3) so scum control the game thread 3:2, and day 4 is before the spared players get returned to the game. So that's why I put in the Purgatory trick that continues to ensure town controls the decision. (it is possible to let scum control the decision and let the spared players return and vengelynch them for doing that in a scummy way, but that's kind of Wild).

This actually seems really interesting. I would love to see scum theater a lynch onto town. Or one onto scum if someone was revealed as scum the prior day.

My one personal gripe is that I feel a lot of players would go for the white flag genocide route which seems relatively boring compared to the SPARE route, but might be more optimal EV-wise for town (question mark).

Maybe after New Home is reached for the genocide route:

• If one or two mafia were lynched, the players must play a genocide version of Baton Pass amongst the last 5 players. Aka, 1 person is voted to be handed a rusty knife. That person is dead and flipped, and they pass the knife onto someone else to kill them who then passes the knife to someone else and so on, until everyone has been killed. Mafia wins if one of them is the last person standing with the rusty knife. Otherwise, town wins.
  -
  
• If no mafia were lynched, mafia wins OR alternatively: the above scenario is played out with town winning if all town when given the rusty knife pick
  town
  over mafia when the option is presented. Aka, if a town is voted to be given the rusty knife which is the most likely scenario, they pick the town over the other 3 mafia for the win. If mafia is voted to be given the rusty knife, and they pick town, that town needs to pick the remaining town of the other 3 players to win.

I kinda just like the genocide flavour; I expect to be roasted balance-wise.

[popsofctown]

Stampede

3 Mafia Goon

10 Vanilla Town

Spoiler: quasistandard mechanics

Each day, town must vote to Fight one player (HURT: ) or Spare one player (HEAL: ). Selfvoting is allowed. Placing one vote on each option is allowed. The mafia have a standard factional nightkill.

If a player is selected for Fight, they are lynched.

If a player is Spared, their alignment is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game thread and put into the Spared PT. They will rejoin the game thread later. Spared players cannot be targeted by the factional nightkill. Spared mafia lose scum PT access until they return to the game thread.

The game has the following win conditions: Town wins immediately if all mafia have left or died, or if there are four spared townies

and no spared mafia

. Scum wins immediately if two mafia are spared regardless of how many townies are also spared, or if they have eliminated all townies.

Nightkills and day decisions are compulsive.
When the first Fight of the game occurs, "Stampede" happens. The spare option is lost. Each player in the spared PT is returned to the game as a multitasking compulsive one-shot doctor vigilante who can't target previously spared players that night. After all these kills and protections resolve (along with the factional nightkill that happened that night anyway), if either the trigging lynch or one of the vigilante shots eliminated mafia, the game becomes White Flag.

If there are five players spared when the Stampede is triggered, the return of players to the game thread is not simultaneous (the order is significant for the alternate town win condition). The players in the spared PT vote to decide who will leave first.

[popsofctown]

This is not exactly good but I think maybe it can be cleaned up into something good

[Something_Smart]

What happens if the mafia get a majority of the living unspared players?

[gobbledygook]

Wouldn’t that never happen?

[popsofctown]

It could happen if mafia is spared in the first 1-4 spares and the town spares a 5th player who is town. The mafia would win, as written (they would spare one of their own). That's potentially a harsh punishment for sparing one Mafiosi and remaining confident you haven't done so.

[popsofctown]

Like I said, I don't think I am finished with it, but pointing this out is useful feedback, changes that eloquently remove oddities like this as a side effect have good chance to be desirable for other reasons

[Something_Smart]

I guess town would never choose to spare on the fifth day in that case, since they lose no matter the result. But then the "if there are five spared players when the Stampede happens" clause is irrelevant.

[popsofctown]

This is very true, it is superfluous.
I think maybe this setup should give town the win for any 4 spared players, not just a 4 spared players, it is after all a 10:3 without the conftown the 9:2 has. That resolves the issue.

[Chemist1422]

ego

[popsofctown]

Hectic's rusty knife game sounds fun. It needs an overall setup where it fits well and I'm not sure it matches my more recent revisions as well as some others

[popsofctown]

Hour of Need

3 Mafia Goon

10 Vanilla Town

Spoiler: quasistandard mechanics

Each day, town must vote to Fight one player (HURT: ) or Spare one player (HEAL: ). Selfvoting is allowed. Placing one vote on each option is allowed. The mafia have a standard factional nightkill.

If a player is selected for Fight, they are lynched.

If a player is Spared, their alignment is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game thread and put into the Spared PT. They will rejoin the game thread later. Spared players cannot be targeted by the factional nightkill. Spared mafia lose scum PT access until they return to the game thread.

The game has the following win conditions: Town wins immediately if all mafia have left or died, or if there are four spared townies

and no spared mafia

. Scum wins immediately if two mafia are spared regardless of how many townies are also spared, or if they have eliminated all townies.

Nightkills and day decisions are compulsive.
On day 4, players VOTE: for a player instead of Fighting or Sparing. If sparing that player would win the game for any faction, that player is Spared. Otherwise, that player is fought.
When the first fight of the game occurs, remove the spare option, return all spared players to the game, and grant a bonus based on the number of players returning:
3: Skip night 4.
2: The mafia loverizes a pair of unspared players. The remaining pair of unspared players also become lovers. Then the spared players become lovers. The game is nightless. Lovers have PTs. The mafia win at parity.
1: Reveal the number of mafia who voted to spare the spared player. Then the spared player immediately performs a kill.
0: Randomly grant players in the game an even night Vigilante, Jailkeeper, Cop, and Motion Detector. If it was mafia that was fought, do it again for odd. Players will not receive the same role twice, multiple even or odd roles. Role ownership is not revealed on death.

[Kerset]

Hour of need sounds fun. Its quite interesting how dangerous, it is to spare scum. As player, I would personally favor option 1, because of psychological pressure. Option 0 is powerful, because of two TI but players like to use unique mechanics so it won't picked anyway. It should be clarified whenever invented abilities are announced after flip. Option 2 is odd, i am not sure how seizing works. Should players enforce daily vote check to see whenever anyone is seized? Full spare seems to give the best blind winrate for town.
It would be interesting to see this game without players being flipped. There are some event, which depend on dead ppl alignment, so maybe scum could make good plays in such environment.

[popsofctown]

Janitoring the first flip for "0:" is indeed fascinating, but site populace is strongly enough against flipless games that I'm worried it wouldn't appeal broadly.

The vote seize is only supposed to make LyLo happen one point sooner in 99% of cases. It will be shown in votecounts immediately. The reason I described PMing the moderator instead of posting it in thread is to make it so there's no race-to-the-thread if a voting bloc wants to try to hammer something before the votesteal can happen in the morning. But now I'm realizing the same subsetup is nightless, so there is no morning, oops. Hm.

I rewrote 0 to what I meant, that the second set of roles would be odd since the first one is even. I'm not sure if 0 needs a buff and the normal queue people would maybe be helpful on that. The intention is definitely for the game to feel townsided on a 0: lynch and scumsided on a 0: mislynch

[popsofctown]

Hour of Need2

3 Mafia Goon

10 Vanilla Town

Spoiler: quasistandard mechanics

Each day, town must vote to Fight one player (HURT: ) or Spare one player (HEAL: ). Selfvoting is allowed. Placing one vote on each option is allowed. The mafia have a standard factional nightkill.

If a player is selected for Fight, they are lynched.

If a player is Spared, their alignment is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game thread and put into the Spared PT. They will rejoin the game thread later. Spared players cannot be targeted by the factional nightkill. Spared mafia lose scum PT access until they return to the game thread.

The game has the following win conditions: Town wins immediately if all mafia have died, or if there are four spared townies. Scum wins immediately if two mafia are spared, or if they have eliminated all townies.

Nightkills and day decisions are compulsive.
On day 4, players VOTE: for a player instead of Fighting or Sparing. If sparing that player would win the game for any faction, that player is Spared. Otherwise, that player is fought.
When the first fight of the game occurs, remove the spare option, return all spared players to the game, and grant a bonus based on the number of players returning:
3: Skip night 4.
2: All unspared townies (including fight victim) become Vengeful, the spared players get permanent immunity to vengekills. Night 3, each of the spared players targets another player, and day 3 the moderator publishes the results that would occur had those players been check by a Parity Cop.
1: Reveal the number of mafia who voted to spare the spared player. Then the spared player immediately performs a kill.
0: Randomly grant players in the game an even night Vigilante, Jailkeeper, Cop, and Motion Detector. If it was mafia that was fought, do it again for odd. Players will not receive the same role twice, multiple even or odd roles. Role ownership is not revealed on death.

[popsofctown]

Undertale T Open

2 Mafia Goons

9 Vanilla Townies

Each day, town must vote to

Fight

one player (HURT: ) or

Spare

one player (HEAL: ). Selfvoting is allowed. Placing one vote on each option is allowed. The mafia have a standard factional nightkill.

If a player is selected for

Fight

, they are lynched.

If a player is

Spared

, their role is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game thread and put into the Spared PT. They will rejoin the game thread later. Spared players cannot be targeted by the factional nightkill. Town aligned players lose any power roles they had when they are spared, but mafia aligned players maintain scum PT access and can still perform nightkills.

At all times: If both mafia members are

Spared

, mafia wins, and the standard win condition for mafia also applies (town wins when all mafia are eliminated, mafia wins when all town are eliminated).

After day 4,

New Home

is reached. The spare option is permanently lost. Night 4 will be skipped.
Town is awarded a bonus based on the number of players that were spared. All spared players are returned to the game thread after the bonus is resolved.

1 player spared: The spared player is a multi-acting publishing cop, doctor, and (not weak) hider night five.

2 players spared: Once both Spare and Fight have each been used, the most recent factional nightkill victim is set aside in case this bonus is earned. That player has read-only access to the spared PT. If this bonus is earned, the set-aside player performs a kill that can target even spared players. If mafia wasn't spared, the set-aside player learns the scumteam after this kill and PMs the mod during day 5 to grant a player bulletproof and inform the mafia who gained it.

3 players spared: The mafia immediately removes two players from the game without flipping them and must choose a mafiosi if no mafia was spared.

4 players spared: If all spared players are townies, town wins immediately. Otherwise, the town spares an additional player then all unspared players are removed from the game without flipping. Town loses the game if the day 5 Fight isn't mafia.

[popsofctown]

Which setup is better?
Which one is more balanced? I feel like they're both scumsided, but Hour of Need is less scumsided?

[popsofctown]

Are these better than the daylight fork S_S maligned? I think so.

[Kerset]

If mafia wasn't spared, the set-aside player joins the scum PT after this kill and bolds a post day 5 in the scum PT to permanently grant any townie bulletproof.

why does it work in such strange way?

[popsofctown]

If mafia wasn't spared, the set-aside player joins the scum PT after this kill and bolds a post day 5 in the scum PT to permanently grant any townie bulletproof.

why does it work in such strange way?

As I was brainstorming, I was thinking it would happen during N5, and the mafia would say "I nightkill Something_Smart", and the set-aside player would say, "I veto".

I did lots of backspace and type it, backspace and type it, in the current form it's probably better to say it's by PM, since I moved it to the day phase.

Good feedback.