Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[Maduisha]

I was expecting this gif in return, but ok.

Spoiler:

Apologies, I fell asleep.

Also now that I had some rest please never ever out a Mason because you want to live again. I think that even gets close to the line of gamethrowing. If you're town.

The funny part is that the last time he tried to do that in my first game, the mafia killed him instead of the mason for reasons I don't understand, anyway. I wonder if he tried again in hopes to actually live to D3, or because he's trying to pocket me by doing the same thing again.

[Datisi]

He legit outted the second mason?

[Maduisha]

He legit outted the second mason?

Yes, he did. The first mason was killed N1 and he pressured the second one to out themselves D2 until they did. Clidd was town in that game, here:

Spoiler:

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

We shouldn't get them to claim, it'd be +ev to keep them hidden

You understand that he can be killed during the night, correct ? it would be interesting to claim now, while this scenario has not occurred. Considering that they have no night action, the effectiveness of the role with the dead partner is null. Now, with the revelation, it would help PoE by dropping it from the lynch pool for today.

And of course, with the mason revealed, I will gain +1 day (because I suspect I'm next on the murder list tonight).

I mean, if the mason comes out now, and it's me who dies due to the vote, the mafia can murder them at night after knowing their confirmation so that you guys are back to square 1 as to who is innocent the next day. He is better off not saying who he is.

Incorrect. I am probably dying tonight, so i need someone to die in my place. If they didn't kill me, mason lives and leads tomorrow. In both ways we gain something.

Hum, It would be advantageous for me to survive, even if I am suspicious. I believe that I can collaborate to solve this game if I reach the 3rd day.

And I still insist that the mason declare himself, if possible. I feel the scenario of lylo approaching with this current discussion.

That lylo situation will certainly come. And that's when the mason is the most valuable, not right now.

That being said, I'm going to sleep.

'' And that's when the mason is the most valuable ''

Wrong, mafia will cc mason. Town will be forced to lynch between 2 players. 50% of losing lylo and 50% of winning, instead of 70% or more with Clidd's reads.

He put a lot of emphasis in "I don't want to die, I need a meat shield because I am essential" like in this game, so that's why I'm paranoid right now. This is either town!Clidd repeating that play, or scum!Clidd emulating it to catch me off-guard and get away with what he did to Mala. I don't know what to think anymore.

[Datisi]

Wow, he actually is that egoistical.

[Karnage]

Vote Count 2.10

Marashu (3) ~

Maduisha, word321, clidd,

Malakittens (1) ~

skitter30,

clidd (1) ~

Malakittens,

word321 (1) ~

Marashu,

Not Voting (1) ~

Datisi,

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-04-05 13:00:00)

V/LA:

• skitter30 - Fridays and Saturdays

[Marashu]

So I think clidd is town because clidd as scum wouldn't be able to help but show off that he knows who the mason is and NKs Mala without forcing the claim while steering the lynch towards me.

Since I'm pretty sure skitt would be more than happy to hammer me at this point I'm not sure how much this is worth, but I'm still pretty sure word is mafia, so in D3 please at least explore that more thoroughly when we're in lylo. I haven't been able to figure out word's partner yet.

[word321]

So the cat is out of the bag (pun intended).

skit after a mara green doesnt sound as paranoid now, does it?

And mara, clidd has every motivation to do what he did as scum; it secures the fact he will survive NKs.
2 ppl handwaved TRQs attitude as too weird to be town: Men and clidd. on 245 and 627. From them, the first is an evident breadcrumb, and we know how that went. But the second is far more interesting:

After making some mental inferences about the behavior of TRQ, I noticed that a good part of the logic used is presented in a vandalized way, with little organization and transparency in elucidating the reasons. The increase in the number of inquiries in many directions makes explicit the lack of self-preservation, as well as the inability to detect whether others are understanding her denotations or not. There are many inconsistencies in the reasoning process, which seem to skip steps and change angles very early, without the expressive development of a concrete conclusion. Communication with many players in parallel indicates a natural distance, that is, there is an implication of the absence of a private chat with them, with the exception of Menalque, who was mentioned only 3 times in her ISO. The lack of focus is also an element that intensifies the volatile content of the approaches she takes with each post that, although they seek in a well-intentioned way to contribute to the resolution of the game, they have a reverse effect of damaging her social image in the face of opinions so absurd and inaccurate.

So, I think he knew all alogn that trq was a mason and men was his partner for his previous breadcrumb. Now, the question remains: Why now of all times?

Mara, make a case already if u still have time and r town, and stop with the statements that looks like a wifom more than the last will of town.

So, my list remains exactly the same as before: mara->skitter->clidd, in that order, if mara flips green. I fear I may be handwaving too much datisi, but a choice need to be made. I think at least one scum will be caught in the first 2 days.

[word321]

Furthering the above:
He handwaved Trq as mason only being doable with an SE player. That may be his ego, or pocketing the newbies.

He had motivation, means and background to top it off. So, what I get from this whole kittens affair is a hard sl on clidd.

My most likely partners, on a descending order, would be:
{skitter, clidd}
{mara, clidd}
{skitter, datisi}
{clidd, datisi}
{datisi, mara}
{skitter, mara}

That dsnt mean I dnt suspect mara, but he is not very partnerable. The list is still developing, but thats my current game rn.

[word321]

I'll try to reread to validate or reject the above hypothesis.

[word321]

oc this is EoD, so we dnt rly have that much time, wich only furthers the case this was not the moment for the mason claim.

[Datisi]

The inmpulsiveness in me makes me wanna chinese fire drill clidd. Not sure if that's a rational action though.

[word321]

...I dont think so. We dont have much time and its a shame; I wouldnt act rash until some time passed to rly process everything. I'll stick with mara for now, since it can clean skitter and is a potential scum partner for the rest of the players. That maybe would benefit better town.

[word321]

Dont want to commit the same mistake with gw.

[clidd]

Im back.

[clidd]

Word and I: "Please, let's not make people claim so we can try to preserve the mason for lylo."

Clidd:

Spoiler:

I really needed to force this today because if you died without revealing what was in the PT of the masons, I would lose valuable information about which reads Menalque and TRQ had before they left the game. Having you here, talking to me is fantastic and maybe I wouldn't have had the chance if I had ignored the fact that I suspected you were a mason. If you claimed VT, however, you would be lock-scum.

I think you're overestimating the value of the contents of the mason PT vs the value of a living mason D3. I hope you do understand that masons gain power the smaller the player group is, and you just sentenced Malakittens in exchange for some "information" that could very well be wrong, because TRQ and Menalque are not infallible. A confirmed town in a scenario with reduced number of players is a lot more powerful than some speculation, at least in my mind.

As for the "selfish reason" to corner her until she claimed... sigh... that self preservation is scummy and I would call you on it if it were not because I saw you say the same in Newbie 1987 in which you were town. Which indicates you actually value your presence in the game over a mechanical tool to achieve victory as is a confirmed town. I won't call you scum for it because I know... I'm just disappointed that you did that a second time.

I don't feel any negative chemical reaction to having exposed

Miss Malakittens

to a possible death sentence.

Menalque

is an above average player and usually has good reads in games in which he is town, something that alone would be enough motivation for the sacrifice of the second mason, as long as his reads reached my ear. Evidently, he has a problem:

paranoia

. It is the third game in a row that he plays cautiously with me, as he cannot read my slot properly, for not having seen how

Scum!Clidd

acts. The premise of having a town confirmed to facilitate PoE in small groups is lazy, when we can advance this process.

Obviously, my view is different when there are cops and doctors, as they have individual mechanical skills that are independent of each other to function. Masons have the advantage of sharing information between two players, but it becomes fruitless if this communication channel between them is interrupted and the data discussed is not made public. In the current game state, where there is only one mason left, the only use I see for this role is confirmation through the claim, to facilitate the decision of lynch for the day, something that can be replaced by accurate reads from town players remaining.

[clidd]

I was expecting this gif in return, but ok.

Spoiler:

Apologies, I fell asleep.

Also now that I had some rest please never ever out a Mason because you want to live again. I think that even gets close to the line of gamethrowing. If you're town.

This advice seemed generic and not very reflective. I don't see gamethrowing in my position, as long as I win the game.

[Datisi]

Assuming you are town, you sacrificed a confirmable town slot for your own reads which 1) may not even be correct and 2) you're not confirmed town for anyone other than yourself. You added an aditional slot in the lynchpool and might end up eating rope tomorrow, which guess what, loses town the game if you're town. Get off your high horse.

[clidd]

Actually, I'm getting a bit paranoid about if this exact behavior is a replica of when you wanted to out OldMapleNostalgia as the mason in that game for the exact same reasons, trying to play with my expectations of your alignment in this game.

I'm not interested in voting you as of D2 because my focus is to bring down Marashu once and for all, and the end of the deadline for D2 is coming closer, so I don't want to disperse attention from his slot. But damn if I don't hope you're scum this game solely because I feel this move is so anti-town that it has to be a gambit to get away with securing the mason kill, and getting me to townread you...

I feel that you are always so paranoid about my game as town, that when I go scum I will know exactly the triggers that arouse suspicion in your read about me (and avoid them).

[Maduisha]

Clidd, I want to insist that being a good player, or above average player, or whatever you want to call it is not a guarantee of success. What if Menalque's reads are all wrong and the content of the mason PT is actually worthless? It's not impossible. Then we are left with the other power of the mason role: the ability of clear oneself as town when needed. As the game advances, the amount of people playing is reduced, and if the remaining mason is still hidden, they can reveal themselves and impact the outcome of the game.

Now that that possibility is gone, we are left with questionable reads and the "Clidd seal of approval" of those reads, because you find Menalque to be a good enough player for it to be a good tradeoff. Do you understand that you took a decision that impacts all the players all by yourself? Even when two team mates that you trust asked you to please not do it?

How do we know Menalque's reads in that PT are correct or useful? How do we know you are not scum? How was your move beneficial to town? We have lost a tool for lylo, all in exchange for more uncertain elements.

[Maduisha]

Actually, I'm getting a bit paranoid about if this exact behavior is a replica of when you wanted to out OldMapleNostalgia as the mason in that game for the exact same reasons, trying to play with my expectations of your alignment in this game.

I'm not interested in voting you as of D2 because my focus is to bring down Marashu once and for all, and the end of the deadline for D2 is coming closer, so I don't want to disperse attention from his slot. But damn if I don't hope you're scum this game solely because I feel this move is so anti-town that it has to be a gambit to get away with securing the mason kill, and getting me to townread you...

I feel that you are always so paranoid about my game as town, that when I go scum I will know exactly the triggers that arouse suspicion in your read about me (and avoid them).

Good for your future scum winrate against me, I guess. Congratulations...?

[clidd]

Assuming you are town, you sacrificed a confirmable town slot for your own reads which 1) may not even be correct and 2) you're not confirmed town for anyone other than yourself. You added an aditional slot in the lynchpool and might end up eating rope tomorrow, which guess what, loses town the game if you're town. Get off your high horse.

I still haven't seen the levels of frustration I expected from you.

[clidd]

My townread on Maduisha stills strong, genuine frustration.

So, we're hammering Marashu, he's flipping scum and we're deciding all together the next lynch D3. Is that good for everyone ?

[Datisi]

If you want me to tell you to go fuck yourself, I very much can do that. I wanted to do that. But that's noise and filler that doesn't bring town closer to winning. And I actually still want to win this game.

[clidd]

Now, it is at an appropriate emotional level.

[word321]

Hey, lets calm down. He probably didnt predict the flow of events that would follow his action as either scum or town, and that is no sin by itself.