Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[Paragon]

It's essentially the posts in 725. Note, I've noticed far fewer posts of that nature since I made that post. Though, I can see town!Taly being discouraged to show emotion/personality since he's being scumread for it, and I do apologise if that is the case, Taly!

[Paragon]

A good heuristic I use in playing mafia is that bravado and emotions are usually real, though them being real does not make them necessarily have come from town.

That's interesting. I think you're right there, but I think that applies more to genuine frustration and anger.

[Something_Smart]

I mean it also applies to, like, friendliness and banter.

Sure it could be pocketing but it almost always isn't.

I think that covers most of what you quoted in 725?

[Paragon]

You know, I think you're right. I think one of the weakest parts of my scumhunting is making townreads/scumreads based on emotions when they're usually NAI. I can think of some examples where they aren't when scum has to fake anger/frustration for getting pushed, though that can be genuine if they're angry/frustrated for getting pushed for the wrong reasons.
Also, faking anger when someone fake-hanners them or something really bad happens for the town. The reason I found eyestott's 1800 scummy was for that reason.
But in the case of Taly, I think the confidence/bravado may be equally likely to come from either alignment.

[Paragon]

VOTE: NDMath
Should’ve done this earlier. This ones for you, Luca.

I thought this could be a potential bus in the event that NDMath flips scum. It felt to me as if scum!eyestott was annoyed he wasn't earlier on the wagon for more credit.

[Paragon]

Parting thoughts: Currently, I think scum are in Churros, Something_Smart, NDMath, eyestott.

[Taly]

It's essentially the posts in 725. Note, I've noticed far fewer posts of that nature since I made that post. Though, I can see town!Taly being discouraged to show emotion/personality since he's being scumread for it, and I do apologise if that is the case, Taly!

I just don't have this large of an emotional range as scum, even if I tried.

I don't get so riled or soothed in such a short manner of time as scum because I have 0 reason to when I know a game's outcome before an event happens.

As town, I don't get this luxury. For an example, in my eyes:
If

NDMath

is town, this vindicates my original read on this slot and a major problem since 2 people I've towncased are now lynched, and I either had a change of heart on or had to make a decision to lynch based on nobody agreeing with me.
If

NDMath

is scum, this verifies the narrative that 1 of my towncases have buddied me for whatever reason, and distorts my idea of who else could be scum since I genuinely believed at some point this person's posting was town.

My core perception of this game is changed, that's why it's either really hard for people to read me, or very easy to. I'm simply more calculcated as scum, and even fall into a predisposed subset of emotions within a scumgame that acclimates to the plist and not my personal views that evolve over-time:

Here are my

scum

games, some are in a hydra. Tai is my other head.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82289 (Hydra,

Tai

head)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79036 (Hydra... I was a fucking traitor here, the bane of my existence.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76341 (I was a fucking traitor for the first time and I couldn't deal.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098 (Perfect mafia win.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76118 (Multi-ball where I was fucking NKed by the other scum faction for being thought of as a traitor.)

Yes, the

NDMath

situation above is WIFOM, just as other ideas I've proposed this game, but it's how my brain works.

It's also a reason why it's hard for people to read me early-game as opposed to late, and why I often last long in games as town because scum can't attach a clear narrative to how I'll behave.

Here are some of my

town

games, the tone changes drastically at different points of the game, from pure solving to screaming-in-all-caps:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75347 (High-functioning town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76441

(Tonally most unique game as town)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10750432 (High-functioning town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10632037
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75869 (My LARGEST emotional range in a game outside of this one, probably.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79447 (Low-functioning town like this game, I flaked from stress.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78296 (Another low-functioning town game where I ended up flaking.)

(Moral of the story, being a Traitor is my life story as mafia and FUCK that... I can see why

Blake

is suspicious that I'm traitor here, but nope.)

I'm mid-functioning town here, maybe closer to low. I've had some

"I don't know if I can continue solving"

moments here.

[Taly]

VOTE: NDMath
Should’ve done this earlier. This ones for you, Luca.

I thought this could be a potential bus in the event that NDMath flips scum. It felt to me as if scum!eyestott was annoyed he wasn't earlier on the wagon for more credit.

What do you think of

eyestott's

response to my vote early this dayphase?

-

both scum

VOTE: NDMath

NDMath already made the conclusion that there's 2 mafia in 1802, what made you L-1 him when he said it here?

"I'm tempted to try to work with this assumption" is different from taking it as a given without even mentioning it.

What is this supposed to be pointing out?

There's no reason to delay claiming except if you need to confer with your scumbuddy. (I'd say scumbuddies, but you already slipped there were only two of you.)

UNVOTE:

I mean it could be, but for that to be the case NDMath has to be aware of the possibility that 3 mafia could exist and willfully ignore it, something which he could do as either alignment.

Of course I'm not convinced it's a slip, but it's possible, and for it to be a slip he has to have not realized or remember that 3 scum is possible.

I don't follow this, you L-1'd

NDMath

off of a perceived slip, and unvoted because you second-guessed it?

Was the purpose of the vote to push a claim? But even then, you didn't outright acknowledge his claim.

[Something_Smart]

I don't follow this, you L-1'd NDMath off of a perceived slip, and unvoted because you second-guessed it?

I L-1'd NDMath because I was bored and disengaged and thought he was probably scum. I unvoted because he seemed like he wanted to talk, so I tried to talk to him and wanted to make sure the day didn't end before we could. I still scumread him just as strongly as I did before, but I do want to talk to him now.

Was the purpose of the vote to push a claim? But even then, you didn't outright acknowledge his claim.

Not per se. I was aware it was L-1 but I didn't vote specifically because it was L-1.

[Aloratom]

Taly's question about eyestott's response led me to skim eyestott's ISO. I could see a possibility there, especially with him disappearing. That was a weird response to Taly's vote. I generally don't like to do annotated ISOs, but I'm going to pull a few posts that stand out to me.

[Paragon]

popsofctown and Luca Blight have been speaking to me for quite some time now. Some days, it's nice to talk to them, even though I know their voices are likely a figment of my own imagination. But other days, they seem to have very strong and alarming opinions, things I couldn't possibly have thought of myself, and it make me question whether they are actually speaking to me from beyond the dead thread.

Recently, popsofctown has been filling my head with cultist propaganda, warning me that Taly has me right where he wants me and that I shouldn't be fooled by his effort or silky smooth beak.

Luca Blight tells me he preferred the wooper, and I'd have to agree with him there. He tells me Taly's self-meta is far more likely to come from town, though he wonders whether Taly expects me to fact check and analyse the games he's linked.

[Paragon]

Don't be alarmed; I know I'm probably just losing my sanity and they're not really talking to me, but living in ignorance believing they're still here is bliss.

What do you think of eyestott's response to my vote early this dayphase?

popsofctown raised a good point on this. The fact he'd been keeping track of whether anyone has voted him this game, and was aware of the fact that that was the first time anyone had voted him is slightly scum-indicative. She believes scum are more likely to remember/care about such a detail. Fair enough, popsofctown, fair enough.

[Taly]

I don't follow this, you L-1'd NDMath off of a perceived slip, and unvoted because you second-guessed it?

I L-1'd NDMath because I was bored and disengaged and thought he was probably scum. I unvoted because he seemed like he wanted to talk, so I tried to talk to him and wanted to make sure the day didn't end before we could. I still scumread him just as strongly as I did before, but I do want to talk to him now.

Was the purpose of the vote to push a claim? But even then, you didn't outright acknowledge his claim.

Not per se. I was aware it was L-1 but I didn't vote specifically because it was L-1.

So what are you doing while you stall for him to talk?

Taly's question about eyestott's response led me to skim eyestott's ISO. I could see a possibility there, especially with him disappearing. That was a weird response to Taly's vote. I generally don't like to do annotated ISOs, but I'm going to pull a few posts that stand out to me.

For someone who hasn't posed any vote this dayphase, I figured you'd have done an ISO or two by now...

Don't be alarmed; I know I'm probably just losing my sanity and they're not really talking to me, but living in ignorance believing they're still here is bliss.

What do you think of eyestott's response to my vote early this dayphase?

popsofctown raised a good point on this. The fact he'd been keeping track of whether anyone has voted him this game, and was aware of the fact that that was the first time anyone had voted him is slightly scum-indicative. She believes scum are more likely to remember/care about such a detail. Fair enough, popsofctown, fair enough.

What's keeping you from voting him?

___

In retrospect, it's hard to voice my townread on

Churros

since he hasn't been present much nor has he worked on top of the thread's recent thoughts. I really need him back in this thread to see his opinion of

Blake's

solve.

This is currently mine.

Blake-Paragon-Churros-Alo
S_S-Fire
NDMath-eyestott

It feels dissatisfying. But, while

NDMath's

frustration/apathy may be genuine, it feels more scum-indicative since he presented about half the plist as potential scum. Since his POV of convincing others that he's town is sympathetic, I don't see anything beyond that since that's the major drive of his ideas.

I will say, with an

NDMath

townflip, half of my top townreads will become my top scumreads. So. I'm a bit done waiting. If

Fire

is just going to flake to death and

Churros

is nowhere to be seen, I see little reason on dragging this day out.

[Something_Smart]

So what are you doing while you stall for him to talk?

Playing the game? I mean I don't expect him to take forever to respond...

[NDMath]

it feels more scum-indicative since he presented about half the plist as potential scum.

Blake-Paragon-Churros-Alo
S_S-Fire
NDMath-eyestott

I will say, with an NDMath townflip, half of my top townreads will become my top scumreads.

I am very confused. Even before you contradicted yourself.


I'm thinking S_S might have to be town here. I can't think of a reason for him to unvote me as scum, when it's quite simple for scum!him to let me die, and I see no way it would really come back to bite him.

[NDMath]

I am saying that on a fundamental level, the game as we are seeing it doesn't make sense in the case that NDMath is town.

It is important to have that confirmation now, because there is a chance that if the game is functioning differently than any of us is expecting it to, we both have a lower chance of gaining a scum lynch elsewhere as well as putting us in even more dire straits tomorrow in the case that we lynch town outside of NDMath today.

I can't do much to argue the part of this post about night kills, but this part of the argument is likely scum-driven.

To 'get confirmation now' is problematic in that it makes the assumption that no one is gonna change their mind unless there is a flip, this flip specifically.
The 'lower chance of lynching scum elsewhere', I still struggle to understand where Blake's confidence is coming from with Blake saying with how confident they were on fuzzy when that flip went against their solve. If Blake was right about fuzzy they would definitely be this confident, but they had listed one solid scumread which flipped town and are now confident on everyone else in basically the same order they would have been in before.
And I don't see how having me flipping town is too much more dire then having paragon/eyes or someone else similar flip town.

[Taly]

it feels more scum-indicative since he presented about half the plist as potential scum.

Blake-Paragon-Churros-Alo
S_S-Fire
NDMath-eyestott

I will say, with an NDMath townflip, half of my top townreads will become my top scumreads.

I am very confused. Even before you contradicted yourself.


I'm thinking S_S might have to be town here. I can't think of a reason for him to unvote me as scum, when it's quite simple for scum!him to let me die, and I see no way it would really come back to bite him.

I genuinely cannot see more than two realities at the moment.

Either my readslist is backwards, or it's not. I think scum exists in some form on both wagons, whether the wagon is on scum or scum is on it - or both.

[Churros]

@mod I'm not sure I follow why I got prodded when I warned about V/LA on weekend?

Whoops, you are right. My bad. Will fix. - nomnomnom

[eyestott]

I’m here y’all. Expect lots of activity in the next 3 hours once I wake up properly. Sorry for my bad playstyle today.

[Paragon]

Luca Blight was saying that in the case of a NDMath townflip, I should seriously reconsider Blake Belladonna. I also though that this would make Taly more towny for towncasing both mislynches, but then Luca with his honourable prowess reminded me that scum!him could've "come round" to lynching NDMath today, and didn't push any serious counterwagons.

I can see how a NDMath townflip makes Taly reconsider his top townreads, due to most people there hard townreading each other, and Blake Belladonna being today's counterwagon, so I want to townread him for that.

[Paragon]

I genuinely cannot see more than two realities at the moment.

Either my readslist is backwards, or it's not. I think scum exists in some form on both wagons, whether the wagon is on scum or scum is on it - or both.

However, I'd like to clarify this a little more. Does your readslist being backwards hinge on Blame Belladonna being scum?
How does your read on eyestott change if NDMath is town and Blake Belladonna is scum?

[Paragon]

I'm thinking S_S might have to be town here. I can't think of a reason for him to unvote me as scum, when it's quite simple for scum!him to let me die, and I see no way it would really come back to bite him.

There are plenty of reasons that scum!him could unvote you.
1) He's scum with Blake Belladonna bits wants to appear as if he's reconsidering/unsure. He intends to renovate you eventually.
2) You and Blake Belladonna are both town and there is no risk involved in unvoting.
Why do you not see either of these possibilities?

Also, what do you mean by the last line? Did you mean there is a way it can come back to bite him?

[Paragon]

What's keeping you from voting him?

My old friend NDMath is scummier.

[Churros]

Ok I'm caught up.

I mostly left my vote on Blake so that we would have possibility of rivaling wagons rather than still a solid scum lean on Blake. I think it's gonna be interesting to do VCA here either way.

NDmath looks a bit better but not enough for me to put him above Blake, but I could buy SS right now.

Nomnom, Firebringer has long been up to a prod, why you didn't give him one?

I've never seen such a lackluster play from FB ever. I don't really town read the slot anymore even if Ame looked good.

[Churros]

I remember someone asking about my TR on Paragon and it's rather simple. All the reasons everyone was scum reading him for in LyLo were silly pranks that I feel he tried to use to read other players or create reactions while not really highlighting the town process behind doing those things as lamist scum would likely do.

He voluntarily hurt his standing in the game to try reading other players. I don't think I've seen scum ever make that kind of play during my years playing mafia. I feel scum!Paragon would at some point try to take some kind of credit or highlight his thought process behind the silly lies but as much as I waited for that play, it never came.