Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[Something_Smart]

I don't follow how can you not understand the point I'm making here?

The point you're making is that you don't think that thinking NDMath slipped can be my real reason for voting him.

But you're wrong, because it was. You haven't really explained why you think that; you just handwaved it by saying it was a one-liner and putting "actual reasons" in quotes.

[Taly]

And any thoughts around the wagons or a readslist?

My readlist is like
you
blake?
everyone
churros
ndmath

I still want to hear from NDMath about why Blake is scummy.

Mmmm... Then what are you wanting to gain from conversation with

NDMath

when he's your strongest scumread?

Also, I went to townreading

Churros

for his reaction EoD1, I mentioned it earlier this dayphase. If you think he's scum, can you tell me how I can be misled here?

Also, do you think your reply to my vote on you was weird? 1959

Just looked at it. Nope. I wouldn't change what I said. Then again, I have the benefit of actually knowing my own headspace.
Do you just want a hierarchy for the readslist, or in depth explanations for each one?

Explanations if you can manage.

Taly what do you mean by teamwork?

1)

I see 2 worlds of how this game plays out at the moment, I'm either wrong in my original townreads and my current townreads (You/

Blake

) are correct - or there's potential scum outside of

(S-S/NDMath/Eye)

that I'm currently townreading. I think it's a wise idea to focus on town cohesion at the moment - which is what I meant by teamwork - because my understanding of this game right now heavily implies that I need to reevaluate or have correctly reevaluated now, and I need this both understood and a point of discussion.

2)

By teamwork, people who townread each other - or are not pushing each other - should hash out a lynch and come to some consensus for the game's flow, as well as incorporate good faith with their current reads. This mentality makes reading D2 in retrospect much less fluid, regardless of who is flipped and what their alignment is.

I'm like, momentarily open to dialogue and properly answering questions or giving feedback to you. What exactly more would you expect from me and why?

1)

What is your perspective on

Me/Eye

interaction?

2)

Is

Blake

misguided to push for

NDMath's

lynch?

3)

NDMath

claimed vanilla town, does this change how you read this slot?

I like that, along with

Paragon

,

Alo

, and

Blake

, you're providing in-depth reasoning for your thought process and so gamesolving with you leads to greater clarity than when I've spoken or mentioned

S_S/Fire/NDMath/Eye

and I think this is an overall alignment indicative behavior based on the gamestate. Hence you 4 being my definitive townreads.

And my push to interact with you outside of a 1v1 that's not productive regardless of our reads of the other at the moment.

Reads:

Town
Myself
Aloratom
Taly

Null
Firebringer
Churros
Paragon

Scum
Something Smart
Blake
NDMath

So, you come with the idea that

S_S/Blake/NDMath

have bussed each other this dayphase, in some form or another. Can you explain why?

As well as, why

NDMath

is the best lynch here? Does it follow

Blake's

logic?

Taly, could you also address how your read on eyestott changes based on NDMath's flip? Is your scumread on him an independent or associative one?

Before 1994, my read was most entirely on

Eye

by himself for having such a consistent presence in the thread will literally no substance, but yes, the quick-vote onto

NDMath

could be interpreted as a bus, especially after I had voted

Eye

at this point. 1821

Though, I'm not pushing this train of thought at the moment because 1994 displays a mentality unlike the majority of what the thread has voiced so far, and I'm curious to know why.

[Something_Smart]

Mmmm... Then what are you wanting to gain from conversation with NDMath when he's your strongest scumread?

A better read on him if he's town?

[eyestott]

So, you come with the idea that S_S/Blake/NDMath have bussed each other this dayphase, in some form or another. Can you explain why?

As well as, why NDMath is the best lynch here? Does it follow Blake's logic?

Not gonna lie, my reads arent based on interactions, just how scummy I find people individually.
I don't actually remember the last time I played scum, it must've been on my old account (as istott). So I can't really speak to how uncommon it would be for the whole scumteam to be bussing eachother.
Okay. Gonna start with my explanations now.

[eyestott]

Spoiler: Aloratom

This read is based on Aloratom consistently producing quality content that doesn't seem forced in any way, and often says things that I'm already thinking, which is a very good sign (from my perspective). Here are some examples.

Mmm, that may change. Haven't felt anything overtly scum-indicative.

S_S

pings me more for lack of content,

NDMath

because of his lackluster D2 posting, and

Alo

also had net 0 to discuss when there was plenty of content to.

Part of my quick townreading of

Blake/Churros

is that I don't see why scum would still be in the limelight if town has been pretty much cannibalized each other this game so far.

And there's just so much opportunity for

Blake/Churros

to scumread, misrep, or dismiss the other people's POV but they're working cohesively last page.

So yeah, my reads are becoming PoE based, and it makes sense given the gamestate read where

Blake/Churros

are town since we're the most vocal.

We're not even 24 hours into Day 2, Taly. It's a little early to be calling people out for lack of content.

This was something I was already thinking and doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

Why did you question my Fire read when you also had Ame as high town?

Any response to Taly’s 1600?

Bah. I had Firebringer subbing in for Wiisp.

And I'm wading through Taly's ISOs.

Again, this is something I often do as town, but would be impossible to do as scum if on a team with wisp/S_S OR Ame/Firebringer.

@Aloratom:

Last time you posted a readslist, at 1579, I was your highest townread, whereas, as of your most recent post, you're considering the idea of scumstott. Was my response to Taly's vote all that weird? Cause I don't see it.
And sorry, totally missed the questions you posed me earlier.

I’m willing to contribute to this wagon, but I won’t let the hammer happen before Ame is back.
VOTE: NDMath
I don’t believe the reads are genuine

Also fml with the new lockdown stuff for Australia today my plans to finally get some may be postponed for another few months

oof, I'm going to be doing people's work for them...

Alo/NDMath/Luca

are actually next ISOs.

Luca

, I'm having a lot of trouble fathoming the votepark wagon on

NDMath

.

For 50+ pages of content, a replace-in getting the lynch for a

"bad readslist"

that's no worse than most other readslist in this game - AND has expressed that they haven't provided a full train of thought... it's just doesn't feel lynch-worthy, or overtly scum-indicative.

With this stagnant voting near EoD1, I'm starting to think most of scum have casted their votes and have consistently bloc'ed onto one of the day's major wagons, potentially even the current ones

Fuzzy/NDMath

.

I believe town is on that wagon, but I don't think it's scum-pushed... If the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

Regardless of

NDMath's

alignment, I don't think this wagon is getting anywhere other than one of the stalest ass lynches that we could pull right now.

I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate.

Very good point, Taly. Specifically that last line. UNVOTE:
If you had some voting power; who would you have lynched today?

Sorry for the recent inactivity y'all, its been a mix of hectic life brought on by lockdown procedures in victoria (now you can be fined $1600 for a public gathering of more than 2 people not of the same household!) and utter confusion. I'm willing to be the hammer vote for fuzzy if his claim doesn't change circumstances.

Oh I thought he was at L-1. VOTE: Fuzzy
Now he is.

You unvoted NDMath Day 1 because it was a stale wagon. Then you ended up voting for Fuzzy, but you didn't give a reason for voting for him. And today you're voting NDMath out of the gate. Did you have a scum read on NDMath yesterday and just give up on it?

I gave up on it because I was also scumreading Fuzzy and thought he was the more viable lynch. But now that Luca is confirmed town by his death, it further solidifies my scumread on NDMath. My unvote on NDMath D1 was because Taly said "I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate."
That line caused me to suspect Luca and his push on ND. Now that I know I can trust what Luca said, I feel much better about lynching NDMath, even with his VT claim.

[eyestott]

Before I move further with my reads, I have an important question. For this question, please assume that I am town.
What is the best way for me to get better at this game in terms of contributing to the town? Right now my strategy would be to find a strong townread who knows what they're doing, and follow their leadership. This results from my lack of experience/confidence in my own scumhunting ability. So, the best way for me to move away from this strategy would be to get better at scumhunting. I know that analysing meta, interactions, tone and voting are all good things to do, but that's too many options for me to choose from right now. I feel like I need to get better at one of those things first, then I can add in the others later.

[Firebringer]

I am insanely not into this game.

just got prodded and barely read anything.

ask me anything before I disappear into being a lurker again.

[Firebringer]

I've never seen such a lackluster play from FB ever. I don't really town read the slot anymore even if Ame looked good.

do I know u?

[Aloratom]

Before I move further with my reads, I have an important question. For this question, please assume that I am town.
What is the best way for me to get better at this game in terms of contributing to the town? Right now my strategy would be to find a strong townread who knows what they're doing, and follow their leadership. This results from my lack of experience/confidence in my own scumhunting ability. So, the best way for me to move away from this strategy would be to get better at scumhunting. I know that analysing meta, interactions, tone and voting are all good things to do, but that's too many options for me to choose from right now. I feel like I need to get better at one of those things first, then I can add in the others later.

I'm going to treat this as a genuine question and not view it through a paranoid lens. This could very easily be blown off as a misdirecting question, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I think you probably know the answer -- you just need to play games, ie. learn by doing. That question you asked in the previous post about my Town read on you Day 1 and now I'm looking at you more critically is a good one and a good place to start. Looking for what appear to be contradictions like that and asking about them is a good place to start. In my limited experience, that's often how scum are caught. VCA, associative, meta analyses are all good too, I think, but they're time and labor intensive and more difficult to get your head around. And then there's also the WWSD level that Blake mentioned earlier, which comes with experience I think. If you want to be an asset to Town this game, ask yourself why people are asking others, including yourself, questions, not on a superficial level, but what is motivating them to ask those questions, and do the responses to those questions make sense -- why did the person respond in that manner.

[Aloratom]

@Aloratom: Last time you posted a readslist, at 1579, I was your highest townread, whereas, as of your most recent post, you're considering the idea of scumstott. Was my response to Taly's vote all that weird? Cause I don't see it.

I'll get to this sometime today, but I need to get some work done. It entails me pulling some quotes from your ISO, and I don't have the time to do that right now.

[Firebringer]

@mod: replace me.

game too boring for me.

[Aloratom]

Spoiler: Aloratom

This read is based on Aloratom consistently producing quality content that doesn't seem forced in any way, and often says things that I'm already thinking, which is a very good sign (from my perspective). Here are some examples.

Mmm, that may change. Haven't felt anything overtly scum-indicative.

S_S

pings me more for lack of content,

NDMath

because of his lackluster D2 posting, and

Alo

also had net 0 to discuss when there was plenty of content to.

Part of my quick townreading of

Blake/Churros

is that I don't see why scum would still be in the limelight if town has been pretty much cannibalized each other this game so far.

And there's just so much opportunity for

Blake/Churros

to scumread, misrep, or dismiss the other people's POV but they're working cohesively last page.

So yeah, my reads are becoming PoE based, and it makes sense given the gamestate read where

Blake/Churros

are town since we're the most vocal.

We're not even 24 hours into Day 2, Taly. It's a little early to be calling people out for lack of content.

This was something I was already thinking and doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

Why did you question my Fire read when you also had Ame as high town?

Any response to Taly’s 1600?

Bah. I had Firebringer subbing in for Wiisp.

And I'm wading through Taly's ISOs.

Again, this is something I often do as town, but would be impossible to do as scum if on a team with wisp/S_S OR Ame/Firebringer.

@Aloratom:

Last time you posted a readslist, at 1579, I was your highest townread, whereas, as of your most recent post, you're considering the idea of scumstott. Was my response to Taly's vote all that weird? Cause I don't see it.
And sorry, totally missed the questions you posed me earlier.

I’m willing to contribute to this wagon, but I won’t let the hammer happen before Ame is back.
VOTE: NDMath
I don’t believe the reads are genuine

Also fml with the new lockdown stuff for Australia today my plans to finally get some may be postponed for another few months

oof, I'm going to be doing people's work for them...

Alo/NDMath/Luca

are actually next ISOs.

Luca

, I'm having a lot of trouble fathoming the votepark wagon on

NDMath

.

For 50+ pages of content, a replace-in getting the lynch for a

"bad readslist"

that's no worse than most other readslist in this game - AND has expressed that they haven't provided a full train of thought... it's just doesn't feel lynch-worthy, or overtly scum-indicative.

With this stagnant voting near EoD1, I'm starting to think most of scum have casted their votes and have consistently bloc'ed onto one of the day's major wagons, potentially even the current ones

Fuzzy/NDMath

.

I believe town is on that wagon, but I don't think it's scum-pushed... If the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

Regardless of

NDMath's

alignment, I don't think this wagon is getting anywhere other than one of the stalest ass lynches that we could pull right now.

I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate.

Very good point, Taly. Specifically that last line. UNVOTE:
If you had some voting power; who would you have lynched today?

Sorry for the recent inactivity y'all, its been a mix of hectic life brought on by lockdown procedures in victoria (now you can be fined $1600 for a public gathering of more than 2 people not of the same household!) and utter confusion. I'm willing to be the hammer vote for fuzzy if his claim doesn't change circumstances.

Oh I thought he was at L-1. VOTE: Fuzzy
Now he is.

You unvoted NDMath Day 1 because it was a stale wagon. Then you ended up voting for Fuzzy, but you didn't give a reason for voting for him. And today you're voting NDMath out of the gate. Did you have a scum read on NDMath yesterday and just give up on it?

I gave up on it because I was also scumreading Fuzzy and thought he was the more viable lynch. But now that Luca is confirmed town by his death, it further solidifies my scumread on NDMath. My unvote on NDMath D1 was because Taly said "I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate."
That line caused me to suspect Luca and his push on ND. Now that I know I can trust what Luca said, I feel much better about lynching NDMath, even with his VT claim.

BTW: This is a pretty superficial take on me. I feel like you're setting me up.

[Paragon]

What is he setting you up for, Alotatom? He expressed a strong townread on you there!

[Blake Belladonna]

It's rather impressive how dull a game gets when someone decides not to play while citing how boring the game is for why they aren't playing.

[Firebringer]

It's rather impressive how dull a game gets when someone decides not to play while citing how boring the game is for why they aren't playing.

im more impressed how boring u are.

[Churros]

1)

What is your perspective on

Me/Eye

interaction?

2)

Is

Blake

misguided to push for

NDMath's

lynch?

3)

NDMath

claimed vanilla town, does this change how you read this slot?

1) I don't have a solid take on eye yet. I'm waiting him to apparently do things because I think the inactivity is site-wide.
2) Not really, I just think SS is scum in almost any kind of universe here. Both because of his ISO and PoE/Dichotomies.
3) I've stopped trying to read into claims too much because once it backfired on me greatly (reconsidered a right read because of claim). I don't think scum always claim PR anymore especially if they aren't too ballsy. Fake PR claims often stick out like a sore thumb in games outside of the themes queue and I've a recent finished town game in this account where I don't even read the game, only the claims, and get scum mostly right (Ok I changed my mind in the day before LyLo and lynched Kerset but there was...reasons).

[Churros]

Before I move further with my reads, I have an important question. For this question, please assume that I am town.
What is the best way for me to get better at this game in terms of contributing to the town? Right now my strategy would be to find a strong townread who knows what they're doing, and follow their leadership. This results from my lack of experience/confidence in my own scumhunting ability. So, the best way for me to move away from this strategy would be to get better at scumhunting. I know that analysing meta, interactions, tone and voting are all good things to do, but that's too many options for me to choose from right now. I feel like I need to get better at one of those things first, then I can add in the others later.

Reading you is like going down a rabbit hole.

[Churros]

@mod: replace me.

game too boring for me.

I don't think the game is boring but right now it's a bit stale.

I'm thinking about compromissing on NDmath if no one seems interested on SS right now. I do think NDmath is the worst slot out of [Taly, Blake, NDMath] anyhow.

I'm gonna treat your lurking as NAI and wait for a replacement (hopefully a good one).

[Churros]

I don't expect SS to endgame this, and if he does, the blame is really on whoever will let him do so.

If the vigilante still has shots, I recommend that slot because right now, even if you don't scum read it, it's the most useless one after Fire that is replacing out and Eyesott that...has at least a more decent ISO.

[Churros]

[Anotora, BP]

If Profi is town don't forget those names. Follow the brilliant player Saudade lead.

If Profi flips scum...I don't really scum read those posts, although neither I do town read.

[Churros]

[Anotora, BP]

If Profi is town don't forget those names. Follow the brilliant player Saudade lead.

If Profi flips scum...I don't really scum read those posts, although neither I do town read.

Ignore this.

[Churros]

I don't follow how can you not understand the point I'm making here?

The point you're making is that you don't think that thinking NDMath slipped can be my real reason for voting him.

But you're wrong, because it was. You haven't really explained why you think that; you just handwaved it by saying it was a one-liner and putting "actual reasons" in quotes.

I thought I had replied to this but I didn't.

Firstly, Like Taly said NDmath had already said being willing to work with the assumption of only 2 scum, expecting him to say everytime "If my assumption of is right," is just silly

But more important, you can't consider it a slip for real when you neither already scum read NDmath or knows how many scum there is.

I still feel it's more likely than not three scum (maybe one traitor) and one of the possibilites is NDmath trying to fake-spew by assuming less scum than there actually is.

There's no reason to consider it a slip from the get-go unless you're either informed of how many scum there is or is already scum reading NDmath for a previous reason, which you had only talked about sheeping Blake previously.

Your "reason" to vote him doesn't feel like it came out naturally at all.

Considering something a slip is more due when you already either scum read a slot or is already aware of some information. Otherwise it might just be a wrong assumption which ndmath had already talked about.

[Something_Smart]

you can't consider it a slip for real when you neither already scum read NDmath or knows how many scum there is.

False.

You're saying I need to already have a conclusion in mind for something to count as evidence.

That's not how evidence works. You first see evidence, then form a conclusion based on it.

[Something_Smart]

Considering something a slip is more due when you already either scum read a slot or is already aware of some information. Otherwise it might just be a wrong assumption which ndmath had already talked about.

Of course it might be a wrong assumption, I never said I was 100% sure it was a slip and if I was I wouldn't have unvoted.

It seems like you're projecting how you generally treat slips onto how you expect others to. I treat a slip like any other scummy behavior-- if someone does it, it makes them more likely scum. Regardless of what they were at beforehand. I could be townreading someone and recognize that something they said could have been a slip.

Sure, you can apply Bayes' law here and say that the slip would be more likely true if I already scumread someone, but you can do that in reverse too (and say that my prior scumread was more likely right because of the slip). And besides, you don't seem to be invoking Bayes' law. You seem to be misunderstanding how I think about slips.

[Something_Smart]

Besides, you should probably save your efforts, because I'm not going to be lynched today.