On the Flying Scumsman (Abandoned)

[Superb Subtlety]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 6

• Despair Night
  --------- 3 ( Egopsray, The Searchers, Spiffybringer )
  L- 6
  
  
  Egospray
  -------------- 2 ( Latias and Latios, Mikoto and Kuroko )
  L- 7
  
  
  Mikoto and Kuroko
  ----- 2 ( Blake x Yang, Disaster Artists )
  L- 7
  
  
  The Searchers
  --------- 2 ( Feminist Blocc, Despair Night )
  L- 7
  
  
  Latias and Latios
  ----- 1 ( Smol Might )
  L- 8
  
  
  Flavortown
  ------------ 1 ( Equitable Androids )
  L- 8
  
  
  Smol Might
  ------------ 1 ( Cappy )
  L- 8
  
  
  Cappy
  ----------------- 1 ( Black Hole Defection )
  L- 8
  
  
  Disaster Artists
  ------ 1 ( Flavortown )
  L- 8
  
  
  Spiffybringer
  --------- 1 ( Imperium )
  L- 8
  
  
  Blake x Yang
  ---------- 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  NL
  -------------------- 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  Black Hole Defection
  -- 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  Equitable Androids
  ---- 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  Imperium
  -------------- 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  Feminist Blocc
  -------- 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  Unapologetically Foxy
  - 0 ( No One )
  L- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ----------- 2 ( NL, Unapologetically Foxy )

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to Lynch
Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-15 01:56:11)

[Latias and Latios]

Alright, I'm raring to go here before the new Survivor episode (which btw Ali if you run an event during it I will be mega salty)

-Latios

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

Ok, i have tried to spend some time sorting the Searchers, because they seemed to be a hot topic recently, so i have read their ISO trying to remove agreement bias and potential pocketing regarding my slot, but i haven't noticed anything that i would find scummy about them regardless. I see effort, content, and attempts to consistently solve with plausible progression. Everything can be faked, there's nothing -particularly- genuine about their posts but it's also something that scum would invest effort to make and i don't know if any of the heads would do that as scum?

I could also understand a lot of the sentiments behind their reads, mostly because i have roughly the same, but besides agreeing i don't see them voting on a bad progression or on consensus reads. The impression that i get is that they are not some super-high reputation or bop-able players, yet if they're scum i consider this to be a good scumgame from them - which means i would maintain my townlean until proven wrong.

Based on 993 i think the despair-searcher 1v1 is reasonably TvT, i don't really know (or understand) why they are scumreading each other. Let me elaborate - it's not just that i see where the scumreads come from but i disagree, i also fail to find any valid reason to keep this 1v1 up from their combined ISOs. I mean it's as if they clashed in some sort of RVS and never managed to come out of it - i know it was not RVS, but it's what it seems. This usually points to a TvS fight in my experience, but individually i read them both as town. The scumcase provided by Searchers in 981 is not particularly solid to me, i think Ms Despair wouldn't have produced post 781 if she wanted to take advantage of our early exchange in a scummy way - they had more than one opportunity to push a mislynch on me and they didn't, so i now feel happier about that slot and i'd like to hear what the Searchers have to comment on it.

Me and Searchers might be tunneled on egospray; after post 941 i may want to pause and reassess on their slot. To be fair a single post will probably not redeem their iso -for now- and there's no vote update from there after posting the readlist. Why? Also, would egospray pocket me as scum? If anybody knows, please tell me.

Having no experience with either head of the Searchers i might proxy my read to someone i could trust, but so far there are none that could convince me otherwise.

-Farkran

[Latias and Latios]

tammy didn't like sircakez and I see why
who the f asks their hydra partner permission to move a vote on page 4???

I don't recall the context for this but I agree on it being shady on the surface.

-Latios

[Smol Might]

So this is my first non-IC newbie game. Welcome everyone, and JC especially from our history. I had a custom of posing some introductory questions to get the game started:

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

~som

I have issues with this post but ill answer anyways and then give my thoughts on it.

1. Years of experience, to the point where ive been almost selected for Champs at MU more then once.
2 & 3 Have Chemist answer this for me. He knows how I play. Me giving any answer would make it wifom while having him answer for me would tie us together, and it would help me read him based off his answer on me.
4. I think chems answer to the above would help answer this more then anything i could give honestly

the issues i have with this is that no matter what alignment you have, your going to try to make it seem like your town from these answers, even if its nt 100% true. Theyre just not good questions.

wouldnt you get much more info if we posted our latest scum/town games?

Well I'd have to know which head this is first

-Latias

The entire catch up was by shadow boi, as is this

[Smol Might]

So this is my first non-IC newbie game. Welcome everyone, and JC especially from our history. I had a custom of posing some introductory questions to get the game started:

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

~som

I have issues with this post but ill answer anyways and then give my thoughts on it.

1. Years of experience, to the point where ive been almost selected for Champs at MU more then once.
2 & 3 Have Chemist answer this for me. He knows how I play. Me giving any answer would make it wifom while having him answer for me would tie us together, and it would help me read him based off his answer on me.
4. I think chems answer to the above would help answer this more then anything i could give honestly

the issues i have with this is that no matter what alignment you have, your going to try to make it seem like your town from these answers, even if its nt 100% true. Theyre just not good questions.

wouldnt you get much more info if we posted our latest scum/town games?

Well I'd have to know which head this is first

-Latias

The entire catch up was by shadow boi, as is this

[Latias and Latios]

Catch up suspended, tied up in something rn

-Latios

I ended up seeing nothing really worth note between where I left off and here. Hrm.

-Latios

PEdit: niceeee

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

I could talk about disaster artists though. He's one of the slots that has been shading me since the very early game but has also been dodging questions - doesn't seem to be particularly interested into engaging with me to sort my slot. Reading them real-time i thought they produced more relevant content, but ISOing them looks like they weren't at all. All their votes are kinda poor to be honest, and the content/posts ratio is actually quite low, until they ended up voting us shortly after blake did.

Looks like they are trying to coast on one of the highest reputation players, assuming blake/yang is town - i have no strong reason to believe they're disaligned though. I could vote disaster artists in the near future.

@spiffy, based on 469+813 can you tell me your updated opinion on the Disaster Artists slot?

-Farkran

[Latias and Latios]

So this is my first non-IC newbie game. Welcome everyone, and JC especially from our history. I had a custom of posing some introductory questions to get the game started:

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

~som

Why the hell are you RQSing now? I'm a fan of it personally but imo you missed the boat HARD.

But sure, I'll bite.
1. A LOT. Been around here for 3+ years discounting breaks, and have also played on several other sites.
2. Generally I try to make myself somewhat towny but I also try to scumhunt because I feel ike I can do well if I try (or sometimes if I realy don't). I tend to get townread for silly reasons or lynched for silly reasons though.
3. I generally try to control the game, make it go the way I want without looking like that's what I'm doing. If I'm having a rather hard time of it though I tend to start turtling.
4.Probably consistency both within the game and regarding meta. I think meta is sometimes overhated.

-Latios

[Disaster Artists]

doesn't seem to be particularly interested into engaging with me to sort my slot

I didn't really see how any of your questions were helping solve my alignment and they seemed like empty noise tbh

-JC

[Latias and Latios]

and yes i'm still stuck on the "I asked you if you wanted a vig shot and that was equivalent to asking you to reads and you refusing to give your reads is a scumtell" exchange but that continues to be bullshit

Never be ashamed that you're sticking to something from a while back

-Latios

[Latias and Latios]

I will probably go into why I scumread Mikoto and Kuroko later today. It mostly depends on whether my motivation for mafia maintains itself throughout the day.

I will note that I am untested with Farkran's scumgame and I have an inconsistent record at reading Bitmap, but I still believe that from what I know of how they play, both their approaches look more likely to come from a scum PM than a town PM.

-Blake

as I've alluded to earlier today I think that farkran tries to carry himself through scumgames through sheer willpower - he's willing to press ridiculous angles or drop bullshit reasoning on a whim despite his town game actually being pretty reasonable/badass

I get the same vibes from his game this game with the caveat that tammy told me that it gets better before she passed out and also i'm incredibly drunk so maybe i'm not looking at the game as closely as I should be but I have ~great expectations~ surrounding that slot and so far they haven't delivered

It's entirely possible.

I mainly bring up the untested bit with Farkran because I've played with him twice so far, although both times he was scumreading me early and consistently I was also able to correctly determine him as town early on both times.

This game, it's possible I'm allowing his wait and see approach regarding my slot to color my opinion of him more than it should, but I've gotten no impression from his posts that his mindset is how he says he approaches every game.

Bitmap, as well, feels very similar to how he did in Titus vs Alisae. I mistakenly attributed it to him being a mason in that game, but there is no stick excuse here.

-Blake

I think you could be onto something with Farkran
that does feel like how scum would play around you given the past town experiences he's had with you

-Latios

[Disaster Artists]

97 meta expectation of ego sounded fake

-JC

Understandable, although it wasn't fake. Have you got an opinion on egospray?

Poke @disaster

-Farkran

That you a) have said you townread me twice
b) forgot which question I had even replied to
c) are now saying you want to vote me because I didn't reply when you forgot my initial reply and were asking about a null/town read which is not a read I expand on in this gamestate anyway

is like... an awful progression lol

-JC

[Latias and Latios]

VOTE: Spiffybringer

Latias town read is a really easy one to fabricate as well as weasel out of. I don't think a horrible ISO is disregarded just because someone is talking about inning an event.

Is his read on our slot it? I kinda feel like he might have been interacting with me in bad faith but I don't think that's enough currently.

-Latios

[Disaster Artists]

like with a nullread, generally the slot should be town, but most of the time I want more content. But telling a slot what content I want from them is less informative for their alignment. And asking a bunch of questions about why a nulltown is a nulltown is like ??? All you're doing is making it harder for me to evaluate the slot in the future

-JC

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

97 meta expectation of ego sounded fake

-JC

Understandable, although it wasn't fake. Have you got an opinion on egospray?

Poke @disaster

-Farkran

That you a) have said you townread me twice
b) forgot which question I had even replied to
c) are now saying you want to vote me because I didn't reply when you forgot my initial reply and were asking about a null/town read which is not a read I expand on in this gamestate anyway

is like... an awful progression lol

-JC

If you read like two posts later there was another question, which was the one i actually wanted to poke you about (and i did).

You say that my questions are noise after, how many? Like 15 posts total?which means my interpretation of you not wanting to engage or sort my slot is correct.

Yes, i townleaned you, now i read your iso and i don't.

You're currently voting me, so you should be interested in sorting my slot. Do it.

-Farkran

Pedit: i get that we disagree about how we scumhunt, so let me see how you do it

[Latias and Latios]

If I can't engage by reading 20+ pages that boomed out of nowhere, then I'm taking a much more conversational approach to adapt, at least until I have a better handle of more than just a handful of players.

I think not looking into my push for content a second deeper is a very surface level mentality, and I'm weeding that out because it's a reason why the game is so dense. Namely, if people are more talkative, then they either provide tons of content or none at all - and it's very likely AI. That's how I sort in this situation.

-yang

p-edit

Maybe but everyone would be more excited to see your spicy hot takes without guidance

-JC

Speaker

is town, I've never encountered

Ircher

with this level of content that isn't town of him. A lot of his reads aren't the most popular at first glance, at least in my agreement with him, but he's not enforcing his will upon others, so I think he's town here. He's not aligning to a specific thought process and constructing his own.

Night Despair

felt town for reasons I've already mentioned. I don't follow the suspicion on him and I enjoyed some of their entrance posting, tbh.

You're very likely town to me because you're consistently in the thread but are finding means to sort - this is reinforced by who I think you are,

Cena

. I figured you wouldn't have such a conversational tone and sort in a scum POV because you're capable of devising very nuanced plans.

Unapologetic Foxy

actually felt town off first glance but that could be me misreading their personal vibe as AI. Through scampering the thread before it got larger earlier, I found that they townread this hydra -

and I want them to elaborate on why.

Since they supported someone who 1/2 of the hydra didn't agree with one of the first wagons of the game, I want to know what about this hydra's content is appealing.

Farkran Hydra

is harder to follow since multiple people with experience have expressed confusion in relation to their vibe - my other head

Blake

included. I like their consistent posting for content but I think they focus on details a bit much, and I'd like to become more conversational with them when it's more possible. I don't have a strong pull on this hydra either way, but I do not care for the other head saying

"guess I'll have to obvtown"

at some point, seemed defensive in nature.

I'm kind of sad

Hectic

died, I wanted to see why he felt

Farkran hydra/This hydra

was town, since both of us didn't have a clarified read on the other even after a subtle exchange.

Also, I greatly abhor people discussing post restrictions. It solves nothing. It's NAI.

Have not liked anything I've seen of

ego

, they've been present but not doing much. I disliked their associative of

Night Despair/this hydra

because I didn't feel convinced by the push there? Yeah, not stellar reasoning, but it's something. I want to communicate with my head before doing a push, ideally.

Everyone pushing

Pops

to die for winning the game feels very weird, and I want the reasoning explained.

I liked something about

Prism's

posting but I forgot.

Interesting post from Yang, whereas i remember a terrible push from blake happening several pages ahead of where i am at. These two hydra are both reasonably active (not top posters, but also definitely not lurkers) but do not seem to be privately communicating about their opinions. I have just recently played my first game in a hydra with alisae, and we've been collaborating the shit out of that game as a town slot. This hydra with bitmap is vastly different, but that's because bitmap is fairly disengaged with the game so far.

Yet, i would expect that taly/alyssa would be much more in line with their posting, and seeing these independent strikes from them is not something i'm fancying right now. Their voting pattern is also a bit weird based on progression, but i'll go about this later when i get to blake posts.

-Farkran

Good chance to speak out on this since I believe I missed a good chance earlier:
Hydra dissonance can be scummy, but if it seems non-conducive to the hydra's possible scum agenda the dissonance is probably >rand town.

-Latios

[Spiffybringer]

To Spiffy, I have no idea what you’re angling towards. State your reason for the vote or I’ll treat it as omgus and likely just ignore you.

Night night

~som

Your confusion w/ Searchers' view on my slot doesn't make much sense and is easily clarified if you read their posts
Not thrilled with your Imperium buddying but not sure if you'd be this overt about it if you were scum
And I guess just the fact that you seemed a lot more helpful in Titus v. Alisae

Tbh nothing I'm super confident in but I'd like a wagon to take off and I'm not town reading you so why not?

~Spiffy

[Latias and Latios]

If I can't engage by reading 20+ pages that boomed out of nowhere, then I'm taking a much more conversational approach to adapt, at least until I have a better handle of more than just a handful of players.

I think not looking into my push for content a second deeper is a very surface level mentality, and I'm weeding that out because it's a reason why the game is so dense. Namely, if people are more talkative, then they either provide tons of content or none at all - and it's very likely AI. That's how I sort in this situation.

-yang

p-edit

Maybe but everyone would be more excited to see your spicy hot takes without guidance

-JC

Speaker

is town, I've never encountered

Ircher

with this level of content that isn't town of him. A lot of his reads aren't the most popular at first glance, at least in my agreement with him, but he's not enforcing his will upon others, so I think he's town here. He's not aligning to a specific thought process and constructing his own.

Night Despair

felt town for reasons I've already mentioned. I don't follow the suspicion on him and I enjoyed some of their entrance posting, tbh.

You're very likely town to me because you're consistently in the thread but are finding means to sort - this is reinforced by who I think you are,

Cena

. I figured you wouldn't have such a conversational tone and sort in a scum POV because you're capable of devising very nuanced plans.

Unapologetic Foxy

actually felt town off first glance but that could be me misreading their personal vibe as AI. Through scampering the thread before it got larger earlier, I found that they townread this hydra -

and I want them to elaborate on why.

Since they supported someone who 1/2 of the hydra didn't agree with one of the first wagons of the game, I want to know what about this hydra's content is appealing.

Farkran Hydra

is harder to follow since multiple people with experience have expressed confusion in relation to their vibe - my other head

Blake

included. I like their consistent posting for content but I think they focus on details a bit much, and I'd like to become more conversational with them when it's more possible. I don't have a strong pull on this hydra either way, but I do not care for the other head saying

"guess I'll have to obvtown"

at some point, seemed defensive in nature.

I'm kind of sad

Hectic

died, I wanted to see why he felt

Farkran hydra/This hydra

was town, since both of us didn't have a clarified read on the other even after a subtle exchange.

Also, I greatly abhor people discussing post restrictions. It solves nothing. It's NAI.

Have not liked anything I've seen of

ego

, they've been present but not doing much. I disliked their associative of

Night Despair/this hydra

because I didn't feel convinced by the push there? Yeah, not stellar reasoning, but it's something. I want to communicate with my head before doing a push, ideally.

Everyone pushing

Pops

to die for winning the game feels very weird, and I want the reasoning explained.

I liked something about

Prism's

posting but I forgot.

Interesting post from Yang, whereas i remember a terrible push from blake happening several pages ahead of where i am at.

LOL, excuse me?

A bit funny you paint

Blake's

vote so poorly. How is it terrible if you haven't even read forward with critical thought? That's a preemptive statement that's meant to disregard an assessment. Both heads of this hydra have expressed some form of uncertainty of your slot, so claiming the vote as invalid before actually understanding the reasons behind the push is quite disingenuous. You either have the instilled idea that our push will be bad, or you're bracing yourself to combat our replies to you, neither are effective or town-indicative behaviors.

These two hydra are both reasonably active (not top posters, but also definitely not lurkers) but do not seem to be privately communicating about their opinions.

Are you in our PT?

Ank

and I haven't been able to do a full-out conversation to hash everything out, but that's partially why we're working around each other's reads here. That's a bit presumptuous of you to assume about our hydra only a little over a day after the game has begun.

I don't like your nitpick of detail here, it doesn't feel genuine.

I have just recently played my first game in a hydra with alisae, and we've been collaborating the shit out of that game as a town slot. This hydra with bitmap is vastly different, but that's because bitmap is fairly disengaged with the game so far.

OK?

You're associating effort and collaboration as an exclusively alignment indicative trait, as well as a cut and dry behavior. Not everyone works the same way as you, and it's a free argument for scum to project their standard of behavior onto another slot. If you're going to go this angle in combating this slot's attention to you, then flesh it out and redact your statement.

Yet, i would expect that taly/alyssa would be much more in line with their posting, and seeing these independent strikes from them is not something i'm fancying right now. Their voting pattern is also a bit weird based on progression, but i'll go about this later when i get to blake posts.

-Farkran

Have you even played with me before?

Tbh,

Aly/I

have pretty aligned reads for players who solve on a completely different wavelength.

I dislike that you treat us as one person, and not two separate thought processes. But you know, we're aligning a bit further in reads now.

I don't townread you here.

-yang

I definitely think Fark's post there had some reverse engineering conf bias going on
Like he was trying to ensure he could be in good position to SR your hydra because he knew you were pushing him down the line

-Latios

[Spiffybringer]

@spiffy, based on 469+813 can you tell me your updated opinion on the Disaster Artists slot?

Uh I think I included Disaster Artists because I thought insomnia was in that hydra when he is not

I don't have a read on Disaster Artists and should probably ISO them and Despair Night so I can properly differentiate them in my head, but I probably won't!

To be clear, just because I included players in that list doesn't mean I was town reading them at the time

~Spiffy

[Latias and Latios]

on MS factional kills are usually not treated as a night ability.

WHAT????? That's like, not right at all
Also feels like Fark is doing the scum thing of trying to plant a seed of doubt regarding a probtown role

-Latios

[Latias and Latios]

Spiffeh, you seem to have indicated town feels on Chemist's posts and scum feels on my posts from what I've seen so far. Could you go into that?

-Latios

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

Gamma, we have been town together and scum together in the past, why do you still always scumread me when i am town? You're doing the same thing you were doing in magireco, and it's wrong

-Farkran

[Disaster Artists]

You're currently voting me, so you should be interested in sorting my slot. Do it.

I voted Mikoto, not Kuroko, in case you missed that.

-JC

[Disaster Artists]

Gamma, we have been town together and scum together in the past, why do you still always scumread me when i am town? You're doing the same thing you were doing in magireco, and it's wrong

-Farkran

That being said, I could *also* vote your head :3

-JC