Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[LuckyLuciano]

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

[Kirari Momobami]

Page 4

I am pleased that all have avis

I will take this time to quote the immortal words of ObviousScum as part of my SE duties

Time for OBVIOUSCSCUM thoughts

"how to play scum"
maybe play scum by being nice? your goal is to get into the townblock and endgame, right, and it will be easier to do that if people like you. plus the game will be more pleasant for everyone if the scum are nice

"how to play town"
even though I just said scum should try to be nice (i.e. "pocket" townies), I don't think it's healthy for a game if you get too paranoid about every pleasant interaction. it can be hard to fake niceness; hell it can be harder to fake niceness and solving than it can be to fake aggression. plus if everyone is calmer then you will be able to think about the thought processes of players easier

these have been obviouscum thoughts, thank you for your time

[Kirari Momobami]

Damn. I'm gonna get mod killed Day 1.

Exclusively talking to the mod in a game where people are saying things is a bit scummy

irt who, even though 17 it was a 3 line post, it somehow felt overexplained

also lulz greeting tell for the topmemes

[Kirari Momobami]

Rather, it feels oddly constructed as if you are scum trying to generate content. The fact that you soft push Monkey for it when nothing has push the game out of RVS is scummy as hell.

don't like this post

[Kirari Momobami]

There actually could be scum in holden ll, I just don't know which is scummier between self meta and the push

By your logic, isn't Monkey scummier than Who22?

I said I wasn't sure about two things so this post is really confusing? what logic do you mean?

[HoldenGolden]

Really bad play if you are town to break a 3-way tie in which your are one of the wagons,

instead of letting a non-voting player come in and decide the leading wagon. Wouldn't the latter be reasonably AI once flips start coming out?

If you can't see how the new gamestate doesn't lend itself to an AI vote, then good username.

Is this not a manner of which to discredit and cast doubt on a player? That's the issue I have is the tonal. The first directly casts shade onto HEM alignment. The second is a bit more distant, but is still implying that town!hem should understand and strengths the first shade attempt through making it seem is a logically reasonable point.

I agree that LYLO is town's best chance. I think that the logic you are using is flawed due to the nature of the stage of the game at the point it happen. I would overlook both if you weren't simultaneously seeemilgy discrediting HEM

Lol. I wasn't casting shade on his alignment. Look through my meta and you will see me consistently arguing bad town play and incorrect reads are not alignment indicative. I was being a jerk because I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and was already dealing with obtuse play elsewhere, so I ended up taking it out on Monkey. On that note, I'd like to apologize to Monkey, because nobody has fun in mafia when people are being rude and making ad hominem attacks.

Hmm, I feel a bit better over the second instance I cited upon rereading. I think I be better able to judge you later after more posts in terms of what happen.

fyi to all players, I care little for meta especially considering this is a newbie game.

[HoldenGolden]

Rather, it feels oddly constructed as if you are scum trying to generate content. The fact that you soft push Monkey for it when nothing has push the game out of RVS is scummy as hell.

don't like this post

You are more than welcome to expand the central idea of this post

[HoldenGolden]

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

Fallacies are in the eyes of the beholder

[HoldenGolden]

LL v HEM screams scum vs scum to me. Thoughts?

Side question,

What gave you the idea that was SVS over something like TvS?

[Yooh]

Not much, since most players didn't actually react to it.

So what do you think about post #36?

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

I disagree here. Town can townread - scumread someone with many reasons, with or without agreement the other, regardless their alignment. So, do you scumream Who22 here? What is the reason? In your PoV, have you thought about Kirari as mafia and you have agreement with her?

[Yooh]

There actually could be scum in holden ll, I just don't know which is scummier between self meta and the push

By your logic, isn't Monkey scummier than Who22?

I said I wasn't sure about two things so this post is really confusing? what logic do you mean?

I'm sure self-meta you talked about is Lucky's, while the push is from Who22's post?

Also, I don't get the point in your post #76 posting here. I don't think we have that heated condition.

[HoldenGolden]

Are you sure you meant to quote 76 Yooh?

I clicked on it expecting to see something but all I saw was SE responsibilities and remark about avis

[3bounty]

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

So you're confident she is town? And I still don't get why you or her saw it as scummy. This post didn't answer.

[Yooh]

Are you sure you meant to quote 76 Yooh?

I clicked on it expecting to see something but all I saw was SE responsibilities and remark about avis

Oh it is just SE duties. My bad. I thought she just want to get "nice score" in there.

[3bounty]

LL v HEM screams scum vs scum to me. Thoughts?

Side question,

What gave you the idea that was SVS over something like TvS?

Seemed like distancing. There was also something thrown in there about how scum would never vote eachother in that scenario, and they were voting eachother.

[LuckyLuciano]

I don't understand why I'm not allowed to have gut pings day one and everything has to be a final read, but this day phase illustrates everything I hate about day one so I'm probably going to mostly peace out until day two.

[Yooh]

To be fair, I also follow my gut.

Can you answer my post #84, please?

Also, can you tell us the reason why you town read Holden?

[HoldenGolden]

LL v HEM screams scum vs scum to me. Thoughts?

Side question,

What gave you the idea that was SVS over something like TvS?

Seemed like distancing.

There was also something thrown in there about how scum would never vote eachother in that scenario, and they were voting eachother.

Can you show me in HEM posts during the exchange where you see that?

To me regardless of TVT, TVS, or SVS, HEM seem to be genuinely confused over what LL was proposing rather than knowing about it ahead of time as some sort of SVS distancing.

I don't understand why I'm not allowed to have gut pings day one and everything has to be a final read, but this day phase illustrates everything I hate about day one so I'm probably going to mostly peace out until day two.

Nothing has to be a final read? If you are town, Town has little to go off of and your initial comment has provided scum no ways really to lurk super well. In other words, if your town, you succeed in moving the game past RVS.

Aka: Town is going to be more skeptical to get more info out of people
Scum has to keep up as well and proposing statements too, even if it isn't super strong.

I sure as hell don't have final reads on anybody, nor expect anybody too. Deadline is quite long, and more abilities to get better reads will come like what I am doing to your slot now.

[LuckyLuciano]

To be fair, I also follow my gut.

Can you answer my post #84, please?

I think that it is harder for scum to have valid points than town, therefore I think making valid points deserves small town cred. The inverse is not true. Players making invalid points aren't scummier in my eyes.

Also, can you tell us the reason why you town read Holden?

I think town is more likely to miss the fact that their RVS vote was never counted. Their vote was meaningless and without intention, it's not something they really care about. Playing as scum, I think by design, requires more deliberate play. I don't think mafia doesn't realize their vote isn't being counted.

[Kirari Momobami]

There actually could be scum in holden ll, I just don't know which is scummier between self meta and the push

By your logic, isn't Monkey scummier than Who22?

I said I wasn't sure about two things so this post is really confusing? what logic do you mean?

I'm sure self-meta you talked about is Lucky's, while the push is from Who22's post?

Also, I don't get the point in your post #76 posting here. I don't think we have that heated condition.

I would have thought the push was more from holden?

I feel like this is some sort of miscommunication

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't understand why I'm not allowed to have gut pings day one and everything has to be a final read, but this day phase illustrates everything I hate about day one so I'm probably going to mostly peace out until day two.

Relax

[Kirari Momobami]

Not much, since most players didn't actually react to it.

So what do you think about post #36?

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

I disagree here. Town can townread - scumread someone with many reasons, with or without agreement the other, regardless their alignment. So, do you scumream Who22 here? What is the reason? In your PoV, have you thought about Kirari as mafia and you have agreement with her?

I feel like thinking 'what if the person reading the game the same way as me is scum' is just about the least efficient way to play day 1

[3bounty]

LL v HEM screams scum vs scum to me. Thoughts?

Side question,

What gave you the idea that was SVS over something like TvS?

Seemed like distancing.

There was also something thrown in there about how scum would never vote eachother in that scenario, and they were voting eachother.

Can you show me in HEM posts during the exchange where you see that?

To me regardless of TVT, TVS, or SVS, HEM seem to be genuinely confused over what LL was proposing rather than knowing about it ahead of time as some sort of SVS distancing.

I don't understand why I'm not allowed to have gut pings day one and everything has to be a final read, but this day phase illustrates everything I hate about day one so I'm probably going to mostly peace out until day two.

Nothing has to be a final read? If you are town, Town has little to go off of and your initial comment has provided scum no ways really to lurk super well. In other words, if your town, you succeed in moving the game past RVS.

Aka: Town is going to be more skeptical to get more info out of people
Scum has to keep up as well and proposing statements too, even if it isn't super strong.

I sure as hell don't have final reads on anybody, nor expect anybody too. Deadline is quite long, and more abilities to get better reads will come like what I am doing to your slot now.

@the first part directed to me.

I don't think scum would out right show that they are in contact. So I won't be able to point that out without assuming too much and going quite deep with wifom. All i have was my initial gut about the votes and posts that were there at the time.

[HoldenGolden]

Woah woah woah, the vote is a vote of revenge for what that primate did to me! You know what he did to my 100% town tell? He made me put a bloody asterisk by it! 100%* is not the same.

pedit:
I guess what I was trying to say is why does HEM confusion sound fake to you. If you are gut reading it as SvS then thats something different.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lucky does not look good under pressure. Does anyone feel like he's town?
I don't know if I'm tunnelling or not, but he says he's got no reason to change his votes — yet he scumreads InWho22 and doesn't vote him.
This is the kind of shit I tried to pull off as scum in my last game with Holden.