On the Flying Scumsman (Abandoned)

[Despair Night]

Egocangraffitti is probably also scum. My honest condolences for the wolf rand lads.

~som

[Blake X Yang]

TLDR; I townlean

Xofelf/Black Hole

, want

Despair

to engage with me and I cleared up a question

Hectic

had, and I deal with

Fark

part 3

OK, I'm awake.

Never fear

Farkran

,

Taly

is here.

Responding to old shit because I still need to read the new shit and because I said I would.

Well, let's begin discussion.

1) Why could Titus' entrance come from scum?
2) Is Spiffy's hydra a valid lynch?
3) Do you think that much of Mikoto-Something places too much emphasis on appearing a certain manner?
4) What is one reason to townread Black Hole Defection?

Okay sure, I'll answer these.

1) I mean, anybody's start could be from scum. But Titus is someone I've played a few games with and I'd like to think I can read her by now. Her start seems a little slow for her, but I don't know that it's AI, she seems to actually be busy with things. But she does seem to be holding back a little. That's really the only thing from my perspective. I don't go in for a "oh this person is scum cuz they started by saying/doing x" way of play. I'm always about tone and what brand of defensive people are being, are they lying/hiding something, is what they're doing helping town. So how people start could be absolutely meaningless.

Haha, tbh, I really don't have much opinion of

Titus'

opening. She's not trying to create a master scumteam and she's not building an incredibly unique viewpoint around so little information that it'd be hard to follow her even if she WAS transparent about it.

So already, this is a flavor of

Titus

I'm not as well-acquainted with. Very question-oriented. She's not hardpushing but she is voting, and I think her insistence to acquire knowledge before outlining her personal reads and views are towny since this thread is literally congested with players.

Has her recent posting changed your thoughts there?

2) With no actual information, isn't everybody? I don't think Spiffy's hydra has given any actual reasons they should be lynched though, and lynching them wouldn't actually give much information to go forward with. I don't know that anyone fits this yet. Most Day 1 lynches really don't from my limited experience.

It pinged me that you had no specific person you thought would be a poor lynch, and also you thought nobody would specifically be a good lynch. At least, you say that most lynches don't provide much D1, so your response feels a bit noncommittal in terms of who you would lynch.

But then again, I don't know if scum says this.

3) I don't know that I'd say they look like they're going out of their way to have a certain perception, but reading them in isolation, they do have an odd tone that feels performative. Could just be how they're playing their hydra, I couldn't say, I don't have any experience with either head at all. At the same time, I weirdly like them?

It's nice to see that you pick up what I noticed when I point it out.

I think it's town-indicative for

xofelf

to go with their gut here? Or at least, not hardpush

Fark

? But then again, I don't disagree with pushing

Fark

off this basis, I just think scum would be less likely to jump on it.

4) Their posts have actual content to them. When they're saying anything, they actually link back to things that support their claims or help expand further what it is they mean. They're a hydra that I expect will also continue to give good content that is actually helpful to the town. I just like their logical tone so far. That's a reason enough for me.

I'm still waiting on Pine's opinions on things and to actually catch up, but I hope this kinda gives you a perspective on how I view and think about things?

~xoffy

OK, your reading based on tone is consistent in the first part of your post and that suggests a town-mindset more than anything. You're very likely town.

I'm the wooper on the right!

No, when I skim through pages, or even look back critically, I still lose a lot of real-time context to the situation. This is why I've said that I have difficulty in larges or fast-paced games sometimes because I can't assess people 100% the way I'd like to. It impairs my gamesolving ability.

So, yeah, I though

Despair

was serious about the questioning. I figured he asked because it helped his personal way of gamesolving, so I wanted to reply to see how he would respond... I haven't completely checked to see if he really followed up there, but it's a bit of an :eyeroll: on my end to see that he wasn't too serious.

But actually, I don't think that reply is clearly AI here. I want to read other people's responses to it because I read that someone else replied, but shat on the idea of it, and that pinged me.

Farkran

, I genuinely think that all of your assessments of this slot - at least

Blake

- are wrong, contradictory, or a weird angle to take but I don't want to derail the thread and disrupt gameflow by putting you into a crater, since I'm not as confident as

Blake

on the scumread here.

-yang

Ok, this is an interesting point to bring up, so i am going to elaborate on what i think blake is doing wrong (the scummy side of wrong) and you will tell me why my perception is bad, deal?

1) I think blake is not engaging with me to sort my slot. She has expectations about what i would do, but does no effort to understand if/why there are variations in my play. Her read is not only inaccurate, it's surface level and lazy. I could expect such a push very early in the game to make the gamestate move forward, not around page 20 or something when there are already established wagons and plenty of content to analyze from the active slots.

1)

To my understanding, this is part of her

Blake

meta, she's much more concrete with how she expresses herself and takes the game to a very logical level and doesn't open up a lot about her internal thoughts, at least to the thread.

2)

Why are expectations invalid here? In my eyes, she's scumreading you for having a variation of play unlike what she's seen before, so I don't agree that you paint this as a scum push or even state that her expectations/read are surface level and lazy.

3)

Read my above quote reply to

Cappy

.

"Lots of content to analyaze"

is not conducive to gamesolving for everybody, I think this holds true with how

Blake

forms reads too.

2) Aside from my own slot, i do not see blake engaging with any of the slots she's unsure about. See 670 to understand what i am talking about. She complains about the lack of info about her null slots and a noisy gamestate, but does nothing to improve the situation, instead chooses to vote a slot who has produced tons of content over trying to explore any of

"NL, Smol Might, Flavortown, Egospray, Feminist Blocc, Equitable Androids, and Black Hole Defection are slots I'm not expressly townreading or scumreading"

.

1)

This game is a lot to keep up with sorting multiple people at once. I don't think you saying

Blake

not engaging with EVERY slot she's unsure about to be a problem... Don't you have a lot of people as null? I can give 5+ readslist right now of so many people not having a concrete viewpoint of slots, and you're hammering this onto

Blake

for ???

Also,

Blake

has a hydra head to lean on -

ME

. I'm focusing on other slots right now to read, and if I wasn't so attuned to listen to your misreps and pushes on this slot, I'd be deep in on all the people she's unsure about because for most of them, I feel it.

2)

You're still making the SAME logical fallacy of

"lots of content is great!"

except worse with

"lots of content means town!"

It makes it sound like you're brushing all the details of active players off, and are scumreading whoever doesn't share YOUR specific viewpoint.

Your desire to assert your viewpoint over others is extremely high and I don't see this from town often, or at least town that wins games.

3)

Blake

also isn't complaining about lack of information... she's complaining about the lack of readability since a lot of perspectives in this game clashing all at once makes it very difficult to filter what's AI specific.

Even if she was complaining due to this, it's in her playstyle to be more concise and blunt about her opinions of the gamestate versus the reads themselves.

Now those are the major points that led me to believe your slot could be scum. While i don't have any experience with you, i can definitely see blake as scum going for a plausible hero push on a slot she knows could be a threat later on, as opposed to pushing lhf which would be the level 0 play here. From town!blake, i would expect her to be much more careful and interested in the correctness of pushes.

So, if you know something that i don't, i.e. your private discussions that led you to produce these conclusions, please inform me of the missing links that made me perceive you as scum and i may further my reconsideration.

-Farkran

So your scumread of this whole hydra is a BoP on

Blake

D1? What the hell?

You're holding someone to a high standard of play when the game just began, in a game of 34 people... If

Blake's

wrong, you have such a large reason to push her, or there's a large amount of suspicion to be pledged against this slot. If

Blake's

correct, you're discrediting the basis and context of her vote and push now to cast an even greater standard of play to her reads, or find fallacies with why she came to her conclusions.

This mentality is problematic if you're town, and advantageous if you're scum.

I also don't like that you feel inclined to hear the nuances of my hydra conversation with

Blake

. Regardless of your alignment, following the 100% read progression of this slot is pretty detrimental early-game in a large like this, essentially, we give scum information more than illuminate and enlighten the town the more we convey any gaps people may dig into our thought processes.

You can continue the tunnel on this slot and not reconsider based on the above, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

*claps at Insomnia/Imperium*

After a very lazy

Smol Might

ISO skim, I thought this was a solid vote since:

Notice: Post Restrictions are not restricted to town and can also be faked

-J

Is the sum of what I dislike in discussing all validities of claims, so what warrants a vote on this slot?

-yang

yang i don't know what the second half of this post means but the post of smol might you quote here is a direct response to Farkran calling Hectic town because meta, which imo is a very fair response to that super incorrect assertion

OK, I think I may have misread.

Can you explain the vote a little more?

@Yang - Fuck if I know, though Town doesn't usually ask shit like that. I don't really do D1, so I've been letting Xofelf handle our shit. This morning she sent me a DM saying "for the love of god if you're only going to do one thing this dayphase, get your sexy tree ass into some events". Paraphrasing.

The great strategists from earlier in my career believed in using rockets on COs who will not move their units into battle day 1. The tactic has fallen out of favor, but the Battle of Team Mafia White Flag demonstrates that it is still a powerful tactic. The Battle of Skyrim Mod supports this too.
If you are with me CO Pine, please don't play this move. I know you do this even as Orange Star, and I hope it is truly because you do not see anything at all during day 1, like an APC unit. The less that'ss true, the more it's a betrayal from our one army.
But consider that there are those of us who can me move cleverly day 1 when we see no movement, but brilliantly day 1 when we see movement. Even if you can't see, provide us movement, at least read a fraction of the logs, and recite a taunt line or query a CO.
I am very frustrated with the way you've fought across several battles, and it is tempting to mention it next battle when there is always a "next battle". But I want you to change it for all of Macro Land's sake not mine.

It's too heartbreaking seeing xofelf pleading for you to assume your own command. Even if you are straggling Yellow Comet survivor with no other ally, please show respect by being here.

This feels like town-

Pops

-flavor galore. Yes, I state this as a soul read for specific reasons.

-yang

[Blake X Yang]

Next up...

Despair Again/Spiffyb/LatiosLatias/FeministBloc/Searcher Again

When that post is? Anywhere between 1-12 hours.

-yang

[Blake X Yang]

ill shitpost, conversationally solve or wait for an event before then.

-yang

[Despair Night]

Searchers town

~som

[Blake X Yang]

And the other 3 slots I mentioned?

Also, did my self-meta give you any insight on this slot?

-yang

[Blake X Yang]

Side note

I townread

Imperium

for his claim because it's pretty self-resolving, it's better to treat him in good faith for a plethora of reasons that I have no desire in pointing out right now.

-yang

[Despair Night]

I wasn’t even answering anything, I was looking through ISOs and stating my reads where I felt comfortable giving them lol

You want me to check spiffy, latios, feminist?

[Blake X Yang]

Yeah, you don't have to give an in-depth ISO, just give a general vibe you get from their posts, unless you don't obtain reads any other way.

Do you think your wagon is scum-led or town-led? Out of all the pressure on your slot, which alignment do you think the majority comes from?

-yang

[Despair Night]

I think it’s salty people driven.

Ego is probably the scum on it. His hydra partner just said he stays with the scum read on me...From page 1

Also their little wall is absolutely horrendous. I think it comes from town like...2/10 times. Maybe.

Good slot to vig into oblivion imo.

[Blake X Yang]

LOL ok I tonally love your posts regardless of alignment, but noted. I'll add

Ego

to the above list I'll check next since I originally had him as a scumlean due to first few pages.

Don't you have any questions for me?

-yang

[Despair Night]

I think Feminist Blocc is town? Probably not going to die on that hill but the scum read on Searchers is easy to follow through. It actually doesn’t feel like the typical scum that chooses their target for the day and lock on them. They also have some sentences that I have trouble associating to scum mindset.

I guess it’s fine for now.

~som

[Spiffybringer]

insomnia let's vote egospray!

VOTE: egospray

~Spiffy

[Despair Night]

Nah not really, I tend to go from people with lower posts and climbing to the top. My questions are also directed more towards people that I scum lean, for actual reasons or just based on tone.

It’s a gift and a curse. People that haven’t received questions from me are up for some sweet gifts, in general. Just takes time.

~som

[Blake X Yang]

I think Feminist Blocc is town? Probably not going to die on that hill but the scum read on Searchers is easy to follow through. It actually doesn’t feel like the

typical scum that chooses their target for the day and lock on them.

They also have some sentences that I have trouble associating to scum mindset.

I guess it’s fine for now.

~som

I'll stop bombarding you with questions for now, but do you think

Fark

is doing the bolded?

Nah not really, I tend to go from people with lower posts and climbing to the top. My questions are also directed more towards people that I scum lean, for actual reasons or just based on tone.

It’s a gift and a curse. People that haven’t received questions from me are up for some sweet gifts, in general. Just takes time.

~som

Noted, I'll assess you more when I speak with

Blake

since I think we have different opinions of your slot.

-yang

[Despair Night]

I really don’t wanna do Spiffy rn again, he either dies tonight and I go “ofc that would’ve happened” or I wait until he trips up or towns it up.

VOTE: egospray



~som

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

Farkran

, I genuinely think that all of your assessments of this slot - at least

Blake

- are wrong, contradictory, or a weird angle to take but I don't want to derail the thread and disrupt gameflow by putting you into a crater, since I'm not as confident as

Blake

on the scumread here.

-yang

Ok, this is an interesting point to bring up, so i am going to elaborate on what i think blake is doing wrong (the scummy side of wrong) and you will tell me why my perception is bad, deal?

1) I think blake is not engaging with me to sort my slot. She has expectations about what i would do, but does no effort to understand if/why there are variations in my play. Her read is not only inaccurate, it's surface level and lazy. I could expect such a push very early in the game to make the gamestate move forward, not around page 20 or something when there are already established wagons and plenty of content to analyze from the active slots.

1)

To my understanding, this is part of her

Blake

meta, she's much more concrete with how she expresses herself and takes the game to a very logical level and doesn't open up a lot about her internal thoughts, at least to the thread.

2)

Why are expectations invalid here? In my eyes, she's scumreading you for having a variation of play unlike what she's seen before, so I don't agree that you paint this as a scum push or even state that her expectations/read are surface level and lazy.

3)

Read my above quote reply to

Cappy

.

"Lots of content to analyaze"

is not conducive to gamesolving for everybody, I think this holds true with how

Blake

forms reads too.

1) I had a chat with Alyssa on discord before rolepms for this game were sent out, she tested me about reading some of Blake Belladonna's games to see whether i could identify her alignment. I have a very very poor record of reading Ankamius, but i had a good score on Blake. This is not enough to assert that i know exactly how Blake would play, but nothing that she has done is correct on a logical level. It's true that she doesn't open up about her internal thoughts, and that's why i asked you (her hydra partner) to clarify, which you didn't.

2) Expectations without knowledge are usually bad, but as i said, it's a towny process to scumread someone and they can be used to advance the early gamestate. You can use them to form weak reads initially, which you would develop and explore later as people react to them, not to form your one and only confident scumread. Being wrong does not make you scum, it's how she followed-up/behave in other circumstances that make me doubt your slot. Is it true or not that she has only one scumread? Is it true or not that she refuses to engage with reads she's not confident about? Those are the questions i want answered from the one non-blake person that would know them if she is town.

3) I think producing lots of content is towny of hectic, but it's not only content quantity, it's also content quality. The cappy slot is trying to work with townreads but doubts them, he is trying to identify scum but he's not shooting in the dark while at the same time being confident he would hit the correct target. These are all town traits that are evident in pretty much all of Hectic posts. Going back to blake, i don't want to be townread out of the amount of content i am dishing out, i want her to analyze it, and analyze everyone else too. I have not seen blake doing so in this game. You have done it, to some extent, but there's still only one scumread coming out of your slot and regardless of the fact that i know it's wrong, it makes it sounds like you are not interested in shipping a solve

2) Aside from my own slot, i do not see blake engaging with any of the slots she's unsure about. See 670 to understand what i am talking about. She complains about the lack of info about her null slots and a noisy gamestate, but does nothing to improve the situation, instead chooses to vote a slot who has produced tons of content over trying to explore any of

"NL, Smol Might, Flavortown, Egospray, Feminist Blocc, Equitable Androids, and Black Hole Defection are slots I'm not expressly townreading or scumreading"

.

1)

This game is a lot to keep up with sorting multiple people at once. I don't think you saying

Blake

not engaging with EVERY slot she's unsure about to be a problem... Don't you have a lot of people as null? I can give 5+ readslist right now of so many people not having a concrete viewpoint of slots, and you're hammering this onto

Blake

for ???

Also,

Blake

has a hydra head to lean on -

ME

. I'm focusing on other slots right now to read, and if I wasn't so attuned to listen to your misreps and pushes on this slot, I'd be deep in on all the people she's unsure about because for most of them, I feel it.

2)

You're still making the SAME logical fallacy of

"lots of content is great!"

except worse with

"lots of content means town!"

It makes it sound like you're brushing all the details of active players off, and are scumreading whoever doesn't share YOUR specific viewpoint.

Your desire to assert your viewpoint over others is extremely high and I don't see this from town often, or at least town that wins games.

3)

Blake

also isn't complaining about lack of information... she's complaining about the lack of readability since a lot of perspectives in this game clashing all at once makes it very difficult to filter what's AI specific.

Even if she was complaining due to this, it's in her playstyle to be more concise and blunt about her opinions of the gamestate versus the reads themselves.

A complete misrep of everything i said in this game. Consistent with you saying that you have a problem with game readability, but once again the problem is not JUST that you are wrong, it's that i should be your main focus since i am your only scumread and the current target of your vote - either you are so confident in your read that you have already put me aside as sorted, which is presumptuously impossible given how early you cast that vote, or it's because you really want to remove me. Not what town would do.

Now those are the major points that led me to believe your slot could be scum. While i don't have any experience with you, i can definitely see blake as scum going for a plausible hero push on a slot she knows could be a threat later on, as opposed to pushing lhf which would be the level 0 play here. From town!blake, i would expect her to be much more careful and interested in the correctness of pushes.

So, if you know something that i don't, i.e. your private discussions that led you to produce these conclusions, please inform me of the missing links that made me perceive you as scum and i may further my reconsideration.

-Farkran

So your scumread of this whole hydra is a BoP on

Blake

D1? What the hell?

You're holding someone to a high standard of play when the game just began, in a game of 34 people... If

Blake's

wrong, you have such a large reason to push her, or there's a large amount of suspicion to be pledged against this slot. If

Blake's

correct, you're discrediting the basis and context of her vote and push now to cast an even greater standard of play to her reads, or find fallacies with why she came to her conclusions.

This mentality is problematic if you're town, and advantageous if you're scum.

I also don't like that you feel inclined to hear the nuances of my hydra conversation with

Blake

. Regardless of your alignment, following the 100% read progression of this slot is pretty detrimental early-game in a large like this, essentially, we give scum information more than illuminate and enlighten the town the more we convey any gaps people may dig into our thought processes.

You can continue the tunnel on this slot and not reconsider based on the above, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

This last quote can be entirely paraphrased to "i don't know how to make a scumcase on you and i want to scumread you for THIS reason alone". How does not outing your thought process help town, again?

-Farkran

[Despair Night]

Uhhh, no? I don’t think Fark did that? Why?

~som

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

I think Feminist Blocc is town? Probably not going to die on that hill but the scum read on Searchers is easy to follow through. It actually doesn’t feel like the

typical scum that chooses their target for the day and lock on them.

They also have some sentences that I have trouble associating to scum mindset.

I guess it’s fine for now.

~som

I'll stop bombarding you with questions for now, but do you think

Fark

is doing the bolded?

This is what you are doing, if you haven't noticed - this line of questioning is loaded and it requires a very low effort on my ISO to see that you are not even my main scumread, i just think you are plausibly scum and would lynch you if there is interest, but right now i'd rather flip DA.

Egospray was also going to be a good lynch but i don't particularly like the last two votes cast there. Incidentally, @despair, why did you join a wagon with your scumread on egospray instead of DA?

-Farkran

[Blake X Yang]

I'm very confused why I should necessarily be focusing on my scumreads.

-Blake

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

I'm very confused why I should necessarily be focusing on my scumreads.

-Blake

I asked you long ago what was your confidence level on your read of me. You didn't answer. You can answer now, and clear your confusion by yourself based on that answer.

-Farkran

[Despair Night]

I never actually scum read JC. It was merely an observation that can probably be checked, he wasn’t really solving anything, or his questions rather had no attempt at sorting anyone. I retained nothing of JC’s posts and that speaks volumes about him, primarily because I always retain whatever fucked up shit he does, be it either claiming to shoot me (:*) or just about any push. If my comment helped him get out of his shell then that’s fine.

I am looking to spread my focus across the table, when I realized I haven’t remembered anything that he’s done, instead of looking back in his ISO to either confirm or deny my belief, I just stated it in the thread to gauge out reactions on his part. I wasn’t looking to really push him and I was aware me not remembering stuff from his posts didn’t make him scum, because I mostly zooted across many posts. I wasn’t pushing a case, I mostly wanted to see how he’d reply. Always better with players like Krazy. You can tell their alignment based on emotion.

~som

[Blake X Yang]

I'm very confused why I should necessarily be focusing on my scumreads.

-Blake

I asked you long ago what was your confidence level on your read of me. You didn't answer. You can answer now, and clear your confusion by yourself based on that answer.

-Farkran

That depends on which point in the game you are referring to.

-Blake

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

I never actually scum read JC. It was merely an observation that can probably be checked, he wasn’t really solving anything, or his questions rather had no attempt at sorting anyone. I retained nothing of JC’s posts and that speaks volumes about him, primarily because I always retain whatever fucked up shit he does, be it either claiming to shoot me (:*) or just about any push. If my comment helped him get out of his shell then that’s fine.

I am looking to spread my focus across the table, when I realized I haven’t remembered anything that he’s done, instead of looking back in his ISO to either confirm or deny my belief, I just stated it in the thread to gauge out reactions on his part. I wasn’t looking to really push him and I was aware me not remembering stuff from his posts didn’t make him scum, because I mostly zooted across many posts. I wasn’t pushing a case, I mostly wanted to see how he’d reply. Always better with players like Krazy. You can tell their alignment based on emotion.

~som

I don't have a lot of experience with Krazy, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of emotional response that town would make. I think of myself as a decent emotion reader in players, and truly angered town usually do one of the following:

A. Call you a terrible player that deserve to die even if you are town and refuse to speak with you ever again, <insert insults of various nature here>
B. Call you scum

and vote you

even if you have 0 votes and are townread by everyone else in the game, with a lion's confidence in you being scum because of how wrong you are with your reads

I have never seen angered town react like "you're scum but i'm gonna lynch somebody else, i'll wait until day end to deal with you, and even then i won't even flip you". What makes you think that Krazy is this type of person?

-Farkran

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

I'm very confused why I should necessarily be focusing on my scumreads.

-Blake

I asked you long ago what was your confidence level on your read of me. You didn't answer. You can answer now, and clear your confusion by yourself based on that answer.

-Farkran

That depends on which point in the game you are referring to.

-Blake

Feel free to elaborate your progression, as i just said to yang i don't see how keeping it hidden would help town, nor how outing it would help scum. Out your scumcase.

-Farkran