Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

@mod: Will any of these Public Mechanics show up on Day 2 as options, or are we not aware of that fact?

Not public information.

Don't know now. I kinda just wanna go Train Cop still and bank on the setup being balanced so that it's okay if Disable Strongman isn't picked day 1.

[Ginngie]

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

[Ginngie]

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

as in, it's my favorite analysis no one trusts or does and I just want to have fun

what's wrong with having fun

[Pink Ball]

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

as in, it's my favorite analysis no one trusts or does and I just want to have fun

what's wrong with having fun

My kind of player.

Hectic we're building a fun bloc, wanna join?

[Lady Chloe]

Day 1 begins!

Today, you must vote to put one of the following Public Mechanics into play:

[Neighborizer]
During the day, any player may pay 1 XP to neighborize another player. They may choose whether to add the target to an existing neighborhood created with this ability or create a new neighborhood. There is no limit to the number of neighborhoods a player can be in.

[Train Cop]
During the night, any player may target another player and learn whether or not the target trained that night. If this action fails for any reason, you will receive "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."

[Disable Strongman]
The Mafia no longer have access to their 2 XP strongman ability.

This mechanic will remain in play for the whole game.

Vote for a mechanic using VOTE: Mechanic. The mechanic with most votes (plurality) will be put into play at the end of the day.

@mod: Will any of these Public Mechanics show up on Day 2 as options, or are we not aware of that fact?

Not public information.

Neigjborizer is effective for certain types of players. Not all.

Training Cop is an excellent option for town to strategize. This prevents lying on what actions people take. If the player list all train cops a different person, we can chastisize the scumteam's abilities if we all train and give result-context to any night kill. Town gains more XP than Scum in this manner.

Disable Strongman is tempting, but with the opportunity of upgrades in the game, any player not-training N1 may be suboptimal. If choices bleed over to the next phase in any form, I like this idea later.

VOTE: Train Cop

I'd prefer that we are open about who we would cop to best utilize this option.

[Hectic]

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

as in, it's my favorite analysis no one trusts or does and I just want to have fun

what's wrong with having fun

My kind of player.

Hectic we're building a fun bloc, wanna join?

Lul, you know I'm in.

Btw, random thought, but what if we select Train Cop, and then have everyone in the playerlist either

Train

, or

Train Cop Check

the person who's next in the list. That way, the scum who did the kill has a chance to be caught out, since they can't claim they were Training, since there's a 50% chance of the person behind them checking them. And they'll have to claim whether the person in front of them was Training or not. Actually, I just realised this has problems since scum could be next to each other, and order of claims matters a lot. Never mind. (Unless someone smarter than me can see another way).

[Hectic]

Training Cop is an excellent option for town to strategize. This prevents lying on what actions people take. If the player list all train cops a different person, we can chastisize the scumteam's abilities if we all train and give result-context to any night kill. Town gains more XP than Scum in this manner.

We can't Train and Train Cop simultaneously I don't think.

[Pink Ball]

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

as in, it's my favorite analysis no one trusts or does and I just want to have fun

what's wrong with having fun

My kind of player.

Hectic we're building a fun bloc, wanna join?

Lul, you know I'm in.

Btw, random thought, but what if we select Train Cop, and then have everyone in the playerlist either

Train

, or

Train Cop Check

the person who's next in the list. That way, the scum who did the kill has a chance to be caught out, since they can't claim they were Training, since there's a 50% chance of the person behind them checking them. And they'll have to claim whether the person in front of them was Training or not. Actually, I just realised this has problems since scum could be next to each other, and order of claims matters a lot. Never mind. (Unless someone smarter than me can see another way).

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

[Lady Chloe]

Training Cop is an excellent option for town to strategize. This prevents lying on what actions people take. If the player list all train cops a different person, we can chastisize the scumteam's abilities if we all train and give result-context to any night kill. Town gains more XP than Scum in this manner.

We can't Train and Train Cop simultaneously I don't think.

MOD

Please clarify.

[Hectic]

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

Yeah, but they have to claim their result on the person too, and they won't know whether they were Training/Not Training.

[Pink Ball]

Ooooh I get it

[Pink Ball]

Training Cop is an excellent option for town to strategize. This prevents lying on what actions people take. If the player list all train cops a different person, we can chastisize the scumteam's abilities if we all train and give result-context to any night kill. Town gains more XP than Scum in this manner.

We can't Train and Train Cop simultaneously I don't think.

MOD

Please clarify.

Read the rules

[Professor Moriarty]

Training Cop is an excellent option for town to strategize. This prevents lying on what actions people take. If the player list all train cops a different person, we can chastisize the scumteam's abilities if we all train and give result-context to any night kill. Town gains more XP than Scum in this manner.

We can't Train and Train Cop simultaneously I don't think.

MOD

Please clarify.

Unless otherwise specified, players cannot Train and take another action at the same time.

[Raya36]

I think train cop would be the most useful option. I don't see any dependable information coming out of neighborhoods and as someone mentioned it's a great way for scum to pocket or gain undeserved trust. Disable strongman is better but we're much less likely to benefit from it than we would from train cop. I like the strategy of using train cop to prevent scum from lying later on when claims are made so I think it's the most beneficial option of the three.

VOTE: Train cop

[springlullaby]

mmm, so is train cop a bonus skill? Do everyone receive a train cop option at night?

mod:

Do I understand correctly that training at night would nullify all other action beside "train cop"?

^If the above is true than train cop is the better option.
1. Have everybody train
2. Have everybody select a target to cop

= 100% no nk, if other mechanics are not at play

If else, strongman is also an ok option.
Neighbor is useless.

capture: momo

[springlullaby]

VOTE: Neighborizer

Train Cop is relatively useless as almost everyone is going to want to train their ability.

Honestly, I'm fine with scum retaining their strongman kill. The chances of the NK being protected by the doctor/equivalent role are low and if scum wants to spend an extra XP point on a strongman, that's on them. It would be a waste of XP for them to do so anyway, so we shouldn't waste our public mechanic on blocking it.

Neighborhoods will give us more information and help us get reads and in a came where we can't lynch yet, it's more important that we get town reads than scum reads, especially with the quest mechanic.

How do you know scum can use xp on strongman? I don't see any info anywhere about that.

[Professor Moriarty]

Since all actions are standard actions unless otherwise specified, Train Cop is a standard action. If Train Cop is selected, players may not use it at the same time as any other standard action.

Training is a special action, and cannot be taken at the same time as ANY action.

[Hectic]

It is public knowledge that the Mafia's factional kill costs 1 XP to carry out. The Mafia member making the kill may spend an additional 1 XP (for a total of 2) to make the kill a strongman kill, meaning it cannot be stopped by anything except for a commuter.

[Lady Chloe]

I need to work on my reading comprehension skills.

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

as in, it's my favorite analysis no one trusts or does and I just want to have fun

what's wrong with having fun

My kind of player.

Hectic we're building a fun bloc, wanna join?

Lul, you know I'm in.

Btw, random thought, but what if we select Train Cop, and then have everyone in the playerlist either

Train

, or

Train Cop Check

the person who's next in the list. That way, the scum who did the kill has a chance to be caught out, since they can't claim they were Training, since there's a 50% chance of the person behind them checking them. And they'll have to claim whether the person in front of them was Training or not. Actually, I just realised this has problems since scum could be next to each other, and order of claims matters a lot. Never mind. (Unless someone smarter than me can see another way).

5 players create a public pool of 5 people who they cop in, but don't out who they cop.
1 of the 5 cops must create pool of 6 because:
Everybody in the playerlist must have their names in exactly 2 pools. 13×2=26

The other 8 train.
This makes scum's predictability of who checks them harder even if scum exists in the cops.
This confirms more town will get XP than scum.
This confirms town exists within the cops.

This is the best I can come up with.

Whether we have a defined strategy over this tool, protections have a 1/13 chance of blocking a strongman kill. It's low utility here.

I like to think of Quest PTs to have a similar utility to neighborhoods, so I'm not convinced of the use here.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Train Cop

[Not Known 15]

Let`s discuss quests: My opinion:

No one should do quests.

The drawbacks are too severe. In the worst case, the item might even go to scum on top of a townie being 0-xp`d. I see no pro-town way to use the quest mechanics. If someone does, please tell us.

[Farkset]

Hello everyone and hi Hectic, lol, are we playing together a lot recently or is it because you join every existing game? I'm surprised i don't see chemist in here.

Also hello to Pink Ball, Ame and Pine with whom i have shared very little time but at least i know their names, and nice to meet everyone else!

Now, on to more serious issues:
- Day neighborizer might be useful or dangerous, i have both used hoods proficiently when my hoods were full town and i have been deeply pocketed when i was town in a hood with scum. I wound't immediately rule this out as a choice but very likely not the best option compared to the other two.
- Train Cop sounds nice because at least one mafia member will be forced not to train on each night to perform the kill, but… a Train Cop would receive a "not trained" result on a player who chose the Train Cop check as an action, correct? Also, town PRs may not train depending on ability, which would make this cop the greatest source of false innos ever, probably.
- Disable Strongman sounds like the only good perk without drawbacks, it's passive and always active and we do not know the amount of protectives we might have on the following days. Everyone can upgrade and we don't know what we upgrade into.

VOTE: Disable Strongman

I think the choice is a no brainer, but i will read posts supporting the Train Cop since i saw many while i was skimming the introductions here and i may have overlooked something.

-Farkran

pedit: yeah, quests are the other hot topic, i'll get to that very soon but my first impression is that i disagree with NK15 latest post

[Farkset]

mastina is in the game so lets let mafia kill who they please

Night Kill analysis in this playerlist is viable

as in, it's my favorite analysis no one trusts or does and I just want to have fun

what's wrong with having fun

My kind of player.

Hectic we're building a fun bloc, wanna join?

Lul, you know I'm in.

Btw, random thought, but what if we select Train Cop, and then have everyone in the playerlist either

Train

, or

Train Cop Check

the person who's next in the list. That way, the scum who did the kill has a chance to be caught out, since they can't claim they were Training, since there's a 50% chance of the person behind them checking them. And they'll have to claim whether the person in front of them was Training or not. Actually, I just realised this has problems since scum could be next to each other, and order of claims matters a lot. Never mind. (Unless someone smarter than me can see another way).

Uhm… this was a nice idea but it still has a lot of issues with false results, i mean… if anyone claims "Not Trained", what do we gain by learning that? He could have used an ability or the Train Cop skill itself. I think this tells more about Hectic than it does about the train cop usefulness

-Farkran

[Hectic]

Hello again, Farkran! Yeah, we're on a streak lol.

What does that post tell you about me?

Also, Lady Chloe's proposition seems funky, but I can't wrap my head around it right now to decide whether it's a good or bad idea. Will try again later.