Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Farkset]

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

Yeah, but they have to claim their result on the person too, and they won't know whether they were Training/Not Training.

On the other hand, this makes more sense than i thought. Still, it only generates soft results and retains the issue of two scum in a row. Could be worth a shot to catch lying scum later in the game though. I might change my mind.

-Farkran

pedit: i believe that thinking of a way to break a setup in town's favor is a town thing to do, which incidentally it's also why i tried to do the same in undertale as scum, with... less than satisfying results, to be honest, but i still won so i can't complain . I don't think you would be the type to fake that as scum though. Are you?

[Hectic]

Unsure if I would as scum. No if I actually think it's a breaking strat.

[Ame]

Hey, I didn't know I made it in this!

Spoiler:

Are you feeling better, Hectic?

[Ame]

No pops? I thought this would be up her alley.

[Hectic]

Hey, I didn't know I made it in this!

Spoiler:

Are you feeling better, Hectic?

Someone outed so you made it in! I'm feeling great now <3

I've taken inspiration from your oddly satisfying PageTops.

[Farkset]

Let`s discuss quests: My opinion:

No one should do quests.

The drawbacks are too severe. In the worst case, the item might even go to scum on top of a townie being 0-xp`d. I see no pro-town way to use the quest mechanics. If someone does, please tell us.

Now, about quests…

The neighborizing effect has little meaning since it will be made of more than half of the playerlist by definition (it's only created if 50%+ of the plist joins the quest, if i read the rules correctly), so it's technically not even a neighborhood, it's a night-unlocked main thread.

However, the bonus perk is actually useful and can be easily leashed even if it gets into mafia hands. We would chose any leader believed to be town (because of the +1 xp bonus) and then have him send the special gift on another player who is also decided in the quest thread before it is locked. Although… from the description, it looks like we don't get to know what gift it is beforehand? This could be a problem, but we can still leash it via options, i.e. if it is a vigshot then it goes to player A, if it's a protective it goes to player B, etc.

The drawback is that one player will lose all his XP and is roleblocked for the night. That's… heavy, actually. It's like giving scum an additional roleblock power that they might not even have in the first place.

On second thought quests aren't so nice as i had read them initially. The risk vs benefit ratio seems to be scumsided unless the gifts are really really good AND if they don't fall into wrong hands. If we are to try and see if the rewards are worth it, everyone should join the day 1 quest and reassess once we learn more about the rewards, otherwise we skip them entirely.

-Farkran

[Hectic]

Agreed, let's try out the quest today simply to see how the rewards are, and for fun.

[Farkset]

VOTE: Disable Strongman

I hate strongman.

I’m going to try my best to stay current in this game, but my best isn’t great. Please consider this a request, a plea, that you limit your posting to important, game-related topics. You can shitpost elsewhere. When a game produces more than a dozen pages in a day, it gets really daunting, and those of us who have real lives and responsibilities have difficulty keeping up.

Please. For the love of god. I’m excited for this game - don’t make me dread it.

Getting back to non-setup discussion, this looks like a town post as well.

-Farkran

pedit: i'm in favor of trying out the d1 quest, although this will mess with the Train Cop strategy if we decide to go with it

[Hectic]

pedit: i'm in favor of trying out the d1 quest, although this will mess with the Train Cop strategy if we decide to go with it

How come?

[Farkset]

pedit: i'm in favor of trying out the d1 quest, although this will mess with the Train Cop strategy if we decide to go with it

How come?

At least one player will be roleblocked and we don't know who it will be. I assume that if the player chooses Train, he won't know he has been roleblocked? Or does he get a XP report at day start, so that he can claim blocked when he doesn't get the +1 xp?

-Farkran

[mastina]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Easy choice.
Neighborhoods are worthless unless a later mechanic can chain with them (e.g. spending xp to make things loyal + spending xp to neighborize being a combo).
Training cop is also worthless.

Disabling strongman is the clear decision here.

[mastina]

VOTE: Mastina

Do I know you?

VOTE: Mastina

VOTE: lady chloe

<3

Hectic +Townpoints, momo +scumpoints

Agreed.

everyone sheep pine

Sounds like a plan to me.

@mod: Will any of these Public Mechanics show up on Day 2 as options, or are we not aware of that fact?

Not public information.

Not public information, but as it so happens, my role gives me a very good hint; I am under the impression via my role that all mechanics to vote on will only appear once; if they aren't chosen, then by default, they can never be chosen again.

[Professor Moriarty]

VC 1.1

[Capture] Momo (1)- springlullaby

Not voting (12)- mastina, Pink Ball, Raya36, Pine, Ginngie, Lady Chloe, momo, Flight of the Conchords, Not Known 15, Farkset, Hectic, Ame

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-20 13:00:00)

Mod notes: Flight of the Conchords have 36 hours from the start of the game to confirm, or we will seek a replacement.

Public Mechanic Vote

Train Cop (5)- Ginngie, Hectic, Lady Chloe, Raya36, Not Known 15
Disable Strongman (3)- Pine, Farkset, mastina
Neighborizer (1)- momo

Not voting (4)- Pink Ball, springlullaby, Flight of the Conchords, Ame

[Hectic]

pedit: i'm in favor of trying out the d1 quest, although this will mess with the Train Cop strategy if we decide to go with it

How come?

At least one player will be roleblocked and we don't know who it will be. I assume that if the player chooses Train, he won't know he has been roleblocked? Or does he get a XP report at day start, so that he can claim blocked when he doesn't get the +1 xp?

-Farkran

The roleblocked player will know they've been roleblocked since they'll lose any previous XP they had. But I assume they'll also be told they were sabotaged.

@mod: Am I correct in this assumption?

Any XP gained by Train on the same night you were sabotaged you get to keep btw.

[Hectic]

Training cop is also worthless.

Disabling strongman is the clear decision here.

Why?

[mastina]

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

Yeah, but they have to claim their result on the person too, and they won't know whether they were Training/Not Training.

Small problem with that. It gives me a massive townread on Hectic for having townslipped, but does anyone else realize the key problem with Hectic's plan which makes this a townslip?

[Professor Moriarty]

Sabotaged players are not directly informed that they were sabotaged.

[mastina]

Let`s discuss quests: My opinion:

No one should do quests.

The drawbacks are too severe. In the worst case, the item might even go to scum on top of a townie being 0-xp`d. I see no pro-town way to use the quest mechanics. If someone does, please tell us.

Yeah I read the way it originally was and it sounded like a Resistance minigame; town get an advantage if scum choose to let them have it, but scum can optionally have a sabotage mechanic in place if they were a part of it. That version had zero downsides to being done since scum would be poe'd if they tried to fuck with the town. But since the revised version was posted, it became utterly worthless.

[Farkset]

Sabotaged players are not directly informed that they were sabotaged.

Yeah, but… assuming they trained, they would have gained +1 XP, and the rules clearly say that "you do not lose XP gained on the night you are sabotaged". So, if you get a XP report at day start, you would know if you have been able to train or not. Am i correct, or am i missing something?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

Yeah, but they have to claim their result on the person too, and they won't know whether they were Training/Not Training.

Small problem with that. It gives me a massive townread on Hectic for having townslipped, but does anyone else realize the key problem with Hectic's plan which makes this a townslip?

No, but i do think hectic is +town for that post. Enlighten us?

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

[Disable Strongman]
The Mafia no longer have access to their 2 XP strongman ability.

This mechanic will remain in play for the whole game.

I overlooked the underlined detail. I will refrain from reading walls on the phone.

VOTE: Disable Strongman

This is, and will always be the optimal option.

VOTE: Mastina

Do I know you?

Yes, relatively well. I /in'd because I enjoy the mod and several players in/out of mafia.

No, I do not plan to out my main.

No, meta is not strictly the best method to read me. This alt is a playstyle experiment.

[mastina]

Training cop is also worthless. Disabling strongman is the clear decision here.

Why?

The entire reason people are voting for training cop is based around a flawed premise of 'we can use it to catch scum'. Except we can't, there's a mechanical reason that people are overlooking which nullifies that idea altogether and makes it entirely debunk. Train Cop is equally as worthless as Neighborizer here because it doesn't actually generate any useful information to be gathered due to the way the scum nightkill works.

You could theoretically use it to catch someone who lied about training that instead used a different action, but that 'different action' isn't the scum nightkill so this catching a lie is probably catching town lying in a gambit more likely than catching scum lying in a gambit.

[mastina]

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

[mastina]

No, but i do think hectic is +town for that post. Enlighten us?

Read the mechanics post again.
Read

all

of it.

Or should I say, read

all

of it.

[Farkset]

IV. Actions
This game contains two types of night actions: standard actions and bonus actions. Unless otherwise specified, all actions are standard actions. Each player may carry out a maximum of one standard action and any number of bonus actions in one night,

unless they Train, in which case they may take no other actions (standard or bonus)

.

The Mafia factional kill is a bonus action

; this in effect means that all Mafia members are multitasking, as they may carry out the Mafia kill at the same time as taking a personal action.

Players may also have passive abilities, which are abilities that always trigger and cannot be roleblocked or interfered with.

This game also contains day actions. Any number of day actions can be taken during a day, but each day action can only be taken once per day unless otherwise specified.

@Mastina scum cannot kill if they train

-Farkran

pedit: i mean, is this it? I don't see how it debunks Hectic plan though