Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[3bounty]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

[InWho22]

Alright, so: I read the game through a couple times, just keeping in mind @HEM 's concept of genuinity.
This is what I came up with: (Also this was written as post 206, none after that point considered).

Spoiler: 3bounty

There is very little to go off here, I only found 5 actual posts. During these few posts, 3bounty accomplishes:
Asking other peoples' thoughts before providing his own.
Asking 2 minor questions directed at an already targeted player.
And finally explaining his own thought on the question he asked several pages ago.
Conclusion: 3bounty hasn't really contributed anything to the game at the moment, and what he has contributed does not seem genuine in that it doesn't feel like it's

actually

meant to further the game. I do not know which of town/mafia is most likely, as I'm not sure if he's actively lurking or just caught up irl.

Spoiler: Yooh

Yooh is in somewhat the same camp of having been not-so-active. What Yooh accomplishes over 9 posts is an RVS vote, a single question at Kirari, and

5

questions for LL, the already targeted player.
Conclusion: Yooh has definitely been of more help in my eyes, but the fact that all of his questions are meant for the already popular target makes it hard for me to see him as actually trying to progress in the game.

Spoiler: Aloratom

Alora is, like the two above, not the most active player in the world. I found 11 actual posts which accomplished:
Asking LL 5 theory-related questions and doubting them because he misunderstands them.
Asking 3b a single minor question, and repeating HEM's question at LL.
And finally: #189 providing a single actual answer and read!
Conclusion: Alora contributes to the game almost exclusively what I see as unrelated theory questions, meant to just produce

some

amount of content. Not convinced.

Spoiler: Kirari

In the 8 actual posts I found, Kirari:
Calls InWho22 (me lol) scummy twice without explanation.
Calls Holden possibly scummy without much explanation.
Explains in a single sentence why I was scummy (which did make sense, just pointing it out).
Tells Holden he doesn't like a post, and answers Yooh's questions with: non-answers!
Conclusion: This slot feels like it is lashing out at a lot of slots just because it can, and while it doesn't provide much extra information, is it actually not genuine? Kir is at a weird spot for me here, because it feels like there is actually an intent to move the game forward, just not the action to do it. Hm.

Spoiler: HoldenGolden

Now it gets a lot more interesting, as there is actually content to go on here. Holden has done a lot of good for the furthering of the game in my eyes: He has asked most players actual furthering questions, which is already more than all of the above. This seems like genuine care to obtain knowledge. Good boy!

Spoiler: HEM

HEM, like Holden, has asked a lot of game-furthering questions. I do see him tunneling a lot on LL, and it would be appreciated if he took a while focusing on other players (although someone else needs to be active then lol). He mentions this himself though, which strengthens my view of him. He wants people to contribute, and in doing so ups town's chances. Genuine and very town.

Spoiler: LuckyLuciano

As said above, LL is probably the most targeted player currently, and I do understand why. He has also been the most active player though, which mafia or not, has furthered the game. He spent a lot of time in the beginning being frustrated that Monkey didn't go with him on a single weird-and-probably-NAI whim, and has actually spent a lot of the game since getting frustrated. I do not believe though, that this 100% comes from an ungenuine position, as he seems like a player who should know that this kind of engagement doesn't get you in the peoples' favor. I wish to see some focus on any other player, and get to watch LL not just defending himself from HEM.

So my reads (ATM solely based on genuinity, and 110% subject to change):
-Town-
Holden, HEM
Yooh, Kir, LL
Alora, 3b
-Scum-
(Also I hope this was useful, first time spending so much time on a post heh)

[InWho22]

Will now read the new content

[3bounty]

InWho22 neutral.

Are you still satisfied with your rvs vote then?

Those aren't meant to be satisfying in the first place. Who is your top scum read and why?

[InWho22]

maths is scummy

Is this a joke? Or do you actually think it is scummy for me to try and remember the votecount? If so, why?

[InWho22]

Also I forgot to change my vote.
VOTE: 3bounty
Based on above-stated beliefs either Alora or 3b deserve it, but 3b is active so let's see you talk.
Also can we get a VC?

[HoldenGolden]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Can you explain your rationale here more?

I get the notion that scum tends to read the thread more closely, but peaches has been such a non entity it's not like Alo has exactly been punished for skipping a question.

I honestly forgot about peaches until last page

[InWho22]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Why would they? Isn't denying town information straight up anti-town, or am I missing some philosophy here?

[3bounty]

All I got for you is that I agree on your holden take. The rest just seems like you are trying to fill the post with words.

[3bounty]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Why would they? Isn't denying town information straight up anti-town, or am I missing some philosophy here?

I am sure there are players out there who can play scum and be anti town, but majority of scum would avoid being anti town.

[InWho22]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Why would they? Isn't denying town information straight up anti-town, or am I missing some philosophy here?

I am sure there are players out there who can play scum and be anti town, but majority of scum would avoid being anti town.

So it is pretty much just NAI?

[InWho22]

All I got for you is that I agree on your holden take. The rest just seems like you are trying to fill the post with words.

Yeah, sorry. I wished more to be transparent with my own beliefs rather than actually hunt. I feel like this was needed as I have not contributed enough and transparency AFAIK is only better for the group as a whole.

[3bounty]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Can you explain your rationale here more?

I get the notion that scum tends to read the thread more closely, but peaches has been such a non entity it's not like Alo has exactly been punished for skipping a question.

I honestly forgot about peaches until last page

Would scum miss the question? He legit posted 10 mins after the post without answering it. I am not saying it's imossible for scum to do such a thing but less likely.

[3bounty]

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Why would they? Isn't denying town information straight up anti-town, or am I missing some philosophy here?

I am sure there are players out there who can play scum and be anti town, but majority of scum would avoid being anti town.

So it is pretty much just NAI?

No. It is giving me town alignment. I give up on this point. Make of it what you will.

[3bounty]

Need more content from peaches but I'm slight scum lean. Her RVS vote seems a bit non random with the question to Alo.

[Kirari Momobami]

maths is scummy

Is this a joke? Or do you actually think it is scummy for me to try and remember the votecount? If so, why?

That was in fact a joke, but it can sometimes be true (when people start using % for scumminess that can be scummy for instance)

[Kirari Momobami]

InWho22 neutral.

Are you still satisfied with your rvs vote then?

Those aren't meant to be satisfying in the first place. Who is your top scum read and why?

I meant more you haven't changed votes, so the question is do you still think your vote is where it's most effective?

[Aloratom]

What do you mean by the bolded?

I was asking the reason she posted #76. I thought she posted it to make the tunneling by Monkey to Lucky cooled down a bit with being nice as reason. She might get town-read for cooling those down.

If playing scum means you're paying more attention to detail, why would you not realize your vote isn't being counted? Or am I misreading you?

May I know what was your understanding before Lucky's answer? As you answer in #121 you want to understand Lucky.

I was reading both sentences together to mean that both Town and mafia were losing track of their votes, and it didn't make sense for someone to say that. At first blush the second sentence appeared ambiguous: "I don't think mafia doesn't realize their vote isn't being counted." Now that I've been over it several times, it reads better, but it didn't click initially.

[3bounty]

InWho22 neutral.

Are you still satisfied with your rvs vote then?

Those aren't meant to be satisfying in the first place. Who is your top scum read and why?

I meant more you haven't changed votes, so the question is do you still think your vote is where it's most effective?

Struggling to find a decent scum read I will change when I do find one. Do you have any scum reads?

[Kirari Momobami]

I need to reread the holden/ll exchanges again to settle more on them but right now the priority is making peaches readable

[HoldenGolden]

Inwho, several times in your read list you mentioned how somebody jumped onto LL with their posts. While you were looking for how someone was genuine, do you make anything of the content of the questions?
-----‐-------
I'm having trouble analyzing inwho's genuine read WoT (wall of text)

My main issue is how much leeway to give. Monkey most likely knows what I look for when I see any sort of day 1 read list. Normally, I would be alarmed over the some of the wishy washyness of it expect for that Monkey specifically asked for it. This as oppose as someone randomly dropping a reads list which sets off alarms for me. If someone posts a reads list on their own accord, they have all the time to write it. Therefore, if most of it is indecisive, it feels much more like scum making it up to appear like they are town/scum hunting.

By having inwho do it, it messes up me unintentionally. Inwho is more forced either way to respond to Monkey's request. Since the wishywashiness isnt extreme enough, I'm not certain either way. I'm WIFOM myself additionally over Inwho novice status as well.

What do you think Monkey about the response?

3b, you believe it is scummy due to the wishy washyness. How are you factoring in the fact it was requested by monkey into that read?

[InWho22]

I will look into the exact nature of the questions tomorrow when I have time (or later if I fail to fall asleep).
I apologize for the wishy-washyness of the wall. I would very much like feedback on how to write up such a list, you mention you know what you look for, what is it? (You may of course answer after the game if you don't want to give away this information right now).
Genuine theory question: wishwash or not (and me not totally knowing how to write up a longer text lol), is it not better for town to have this information regardless of how useful or precise it is? Like, town is better suited having at least my list, than if I hadn't at all, right? Because you at least know where you have me, and that is the biggest concern for town (confusion and miscommunication).

[HoldenGolden]

Sounds good.

It's more a reference to my last game where I pinged scum!monkey for posting a wall of mostly wishy washy reads unannounced. Most people sees a wall of text and either go townlean or skim through it. For scum, it's a easy way to pad out a long post to look like you are making content.

My problem is that my typical analysis method is failing me and I wish to confer in the rest of the thread for a way to approach your post.

Post game if you would like I can go into other things i look for during day 1, but i think you can understand why I'm not going to now

As to your theory question, i think you have a major fallacy in which it doesnt seem you consider if people have seemingly followed up on their questions. I wont say what about it is townie or scummy (as that's your job now), but that's a factor of genuine motivation.

Wishywashy is a given for both alignments. The more decisive you can get people the better. It is harder for someone to backpedal out of a read like that and creates a system of reads for later analysis.

[Aloratom]

@Aloratom, lol...

Does this mean that the bolded part of this: "It definitely wasn't because I slept on it,

and was 100% because I would rather appease a player making a weak push that will never actually lead to my lynch anyway

," was sarcasm?

Or should I just leave an open-ended question and ask what you meant by "@Aloratom, lol...?"

Yes.

To which question are you replying?

[Aloratom]

Need more content from peaches but I'm slight scum lean. Her RVS vote seems a bit non random with the question to Alo.

Did you get the feeling from Peaches that not making a RVS vote was some sort of alignment tell?