Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

I M THE MOST AMAZING SCUMHUNTER ON THIS LIST AND YOU ARE NOT GIVING ME LEADERSHIP

[springlullaby]

Only if you share it with me, Pink Ball. We should ration leadership out.

That said, would trust Hectic with leader even more than PB. PB, love ya to death, but you're not as obvtown as Hectic is and I got the sense that Hectic is more mechanically-minded than you so like. Hectic > PB > spring imo for leadership.

Hmm, wait.
All joke aside, Hectic was wrong about the mechanics all along you know?
Are you even paying attention?

[mastina]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Back to here I guess.

[springlullaby]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Back to here I guess.

@mastina, please point out why Hectic demonstrate amazing mechanics qualities.

[mastina]

All joke aside, Hectic was wrong about the mechanics all along you know?

So was I, and I am an incredibly mechanics-oriented player. I made an oversight, so did Hectic, but the mindset of being a mechanics-oriented player remains, which is what I was referring to.

[springlullaby]

All joke aside, Hectic was wrong about the mechanics all along you know?

So was I, and I am an incredibly mechanics-oriented player. I made an oversight, so did Hectic, but the mindset of being a mechanics-oriented player remains, which is what I was referring to.

What is a mechanic oriented player?

Share your POV on the mech of this game.

[mastina]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Back to here I guess.

@mastina, please point out why Hectic demonstrate amazing mechanics qualities.

It's self-evident in his posts. He might've made a mistake, but he still reasoned through a process, formed a strategy, planned things out, reasoned the mechanics out, etc., in a way demonstrating an aptitude towards mechanical solving and natural gift for game mechanics.

Yes, he made an imperfect plan that had a mistake, but as I said--so did I in MY understanding of the mechanics, and if I, a player who I know is mechanically gifted, made a mistake on the mechanics, then I know that Hectic making a mistake on the mechanics does not disqualify him from being a mechanically-gifted player.

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Disable Strongman
Back to here I guess.

VOTE: Disable Strongman

[Professor Moriarty]

@mod:

do you guarantee that the public mechanics introduced to town really all have an effect. i.e. no red-herrings hinting at non-existent mechanics.

All public mechanics are guaranteed to work the way they say they will; this is not a bastard game. I can't answer your question any further without more specificity.

[mastina]

What is a mechanic oriented player?

Players like me, Drixx, Cerberus666, and the like. Of which there are dozens. Many still prominent players, though I can't recall their names off the top of my head, would be able to name them if they were in the game with me. You could make the argument that a player like Titus can show mechanical aptitude, and there's players like Mathdino who I seem to recall was mechanically gifted, and there's at least one more currently active prominent scummer who I know is good with mechanics.

Players who have the demonstrated ability to look at the mechanics in question, think them out, ration them out, create ideas, create plans, to utilize mechanics to their maximum, to give advantages beyond what they should have.

Being a mechanical player doesn't mean you need to nail mechanics perfectly; you could always make mistakes on game mechanics as a mechanical player. I've made mechanical mistakes in spite of identifying as a mechanical player, Cerb has made mechanical mistakes, Titus has made mechanical mistakes, you get the idea. But the demonstrated mindset is there.

[springlullaby]

What is a mechanic oriented player?

Players like me, Drixx, Cerberus666, and the like. Of which there are dozens. Many still prominent players, though I can't recall their names off the top of my head, would be able to name them if they were in the game with me. You could make the argument that a player like Titus can show mechanical aptitude, and there's players like Mathdino who I seem to recall was mechanically gifted, and there's at least one more currently active prominent scummer who I know is good with mechanics.

Players who have the demonstrated ability to look at the mechanics in question, think them out, ration them out, create ideas, create plans, to utilize mechanics to their maximum, to give advantages beyond what they should have.

Being a mechanical player doesn't mean you need to nail mechanics perfectly; you could always make mistakes on game mechanics as a mechanical player. I've made mechanical mistakes in spite of identifying as a mechanical player, Cerb has made mechanical mistakes, Titus has made mechanical mistakes, you get the idea. But the demonstrated mindset is there.

Ok, since you are mechanically gifted, you should recognize the genius of my plan and hence give me your vote as the natural choice for quest leadership this nigh.

If not, please do critique my plan.

[Ame]

IV. Actions
This game contains two types of night actions: standard actions and bonus actions. Unless otherwise specified, all actions are standard actions. Each player may carry out a maximum of one standard action and any number of bonus actions in one night,

unless they Train, in which case they may take no other actions (standard or bonus)

.

The Mafia factional kill is a bonus action

; this in effect means that all Mafia members are multitasking, as they may carry out the Mafia kill at the same time as taking a personal action.

Players may also have passive abilities, which are abilities that always trigger and cannot be roleblocked or interfered with.

This game also contains day actions. Any number of day actions can be taken during a day, but each day action can only be taken once per day unless otherwise specified.

@Mastina scum cannot kill if they train

...Oh.

Mastina, this is odd to me considering that you were on the scum team in the previous game. It looks like a fake town slip, especially considering your mechanic orientation and this quote:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped. I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

HURT: Mastina

[Ame]

Also looking at the previous game, it's likely that scum has alternative ways to gain XP. In XP1 they had an autofarmer (gain 1 XP automatically each night) and a roleblocker (Mastina) that gained the XP the person they blocked would have gained. With this in mind, I am leaning more favorably toward a mass training cop strategy, simply because it could force mafia to train when they otherwise wouldn't need to. That is if we're able to work out a reliable strategy. There was something else I was going to say, but I lost my train of thought. Oh! Again, keep in mind the ability also benefits mafia. If they have roles such as the role blocker from the previous game, the train cop will grant them greater insight into who to target. I still prefer the other two abilities, but I thought I'd throw this out there.

[Farkset]

Ad hominem.

That's a great characteristic of.... OMGUS I THINK.

CAPTURE: HECTIC

-> Setup speculation that is wordy and wrong, then vote for bad ability.
-> Fluff and attempted buddying.
-> Afraid of "starting anything".

Yeah, I did my job for the day I think.

I don't consider aggressiveness AI, being one of the most aggressive people on ms, but i can stop myself before crossing the toxic line. That said, toxicity itself is not AI either, but this push is terrible and poorly timed.

HURT: springlullaby

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Sorry in advance for my mess of thoughts about the mechanics. My opinions were changing as I read people's ideas and I was typing as I went.

I would honestly consider anyone pushing for neighborizer to be scummy. It gains almost no useful and dependable information for town to use and also is a great way for scum to pocket and gain town trust.

Training Cop offers a lot of information when claims come into play and makes it nearly impossible for scum to lie without taking a huge risk. I like Hectic's ideas around this. Farkran does have a good point about false innos though. I think choosing this will prove most useful in the future while the disable strongman could be immediate. That said I could definitely be convinced to go for disable strongman. The Training Cop strategies would only work with full participation and still have flaws.
(Reading through I have been convinced to switch to disable strongman. Training Cop just has too many flaws in strategy to be useful in my opinion. Especially in comparison to disable strongman. I also somehow overlooked that it was for the whole game)
VOTE: Disable Strongman

I think the general consensus is that Quests are more of a bad idea than good (but fun) which I agree with. The only benefit for town is the gift which may even end up going to scum, and on top of that a townie is drained and roleblocked. I think the disadvantages outweigh the benefits by a lot. I would be ok testing it out early game though because maybe the gift is worth it. But later on, especially if we lose quite a bit of town it's just not worth the risk of giving scum advantages. I do agree that quest members should be voted for here.
Since it seems the quest is happening and I'm ok with that:

confirming I sent my PM to enter the quest

VOTE: Disable Strongman

I hate strongman.

I’m going to try my best to stay current in this game, but my best isn’t great. Please consider this a request, a plea, that you limit your posting to important, game-related topics. You can shitpost elsewhere. When a game produces more than a dozen pages in a day, it gets really daunting, and those of us who have real lives and responsibilities have difficulty keeping up.

Please. For the love of god. I’m excited for this game - don’t make me dread it.

Getting back to non-setup discussion, this looks like a town post as well.

-Farkran

pedit: i'm in favor of trying out the d1 quest, although this will mess with the Train Cop strategy if we decide to go with it

What makes you think this is a town post?

Thinking about it more, I actually like the idea of scum having strongman. Yeah, neighborizor is the way to go I think. I still prefer train cop the least / think it is net negative.

This is almost too scummy to be scum

HURT: Flight of the Conchords

Why?

This is also a towny post, tone and inquisitiveness look genuine.

To answer the question addressed at me, i think Pine's plea to make the game readable was genuine and outside of his scumrange. Pine is a renowned scum player on ms and i used to scumread (or push to mislynch, when i was scum) him for lurking, but every time he was town and i think that specifically asking for a chance to NOT lurk is a towny thing to do from his position. I don't have hard reads at this point in time but i have some elements to build a readlist on.

In comparison, your (raya) post is less towny than Pine's, because i can also foresee an attempt to pocket/being lamist with it. Note that i don't see you as particularly lamist here, i just admit the possibility that you were.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

Be nice, mastina. I support all private alts. I think it's a preposterous reason to SR someone.

You're not reading right.

I'm not scumreading Lady Chloe for being an anonymous alt.
I'm scumreading Lady Chloe for their contributions to the game thusfar.

Can you point me to which Chloe posts are poor contributions to the game? Her iso is short enough, this shouldn't be a huge effort.

To be honest, i liked #70 and #75 but i slightly disliked #139. I'm interested in your opinion.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Can I be the leader of the quest??

I'd trust PB as a leader over spring for what it's worth--not because I think spring is suspicious (

spring's probably town

), but because I trust PB to make better use out of being the leader than spring.

Please elaborate on the bolded as well. I'm not discounting the possibility to be wrong on springlullaby, but your level of confidence seems misplaced and i'd like to understand why this is the case.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

TOWN
Hectic - i liked the attempt to mechprogress, also i think i can be accurate on reading hectic very fast after having played with him so much recently
Pine - genuine introduction
---TOWN CONFIDENCE LINE---
Raya36
Not Known 15
Lady Chloe
Ame
---TRUE NULL LINE---
mastina
momo
Pink Ball
Ginngie
---SCUM CONFIDENCE LINE---
Flight of the Conchords - I don't like TSTBS posts from either alignment, and being a secret hydra i'd assume it comes from experienced players, not newbies. This is the main reason i'm scumleaning them instead of giving them the benefit of doubt.
springlullaby - To further my thoughts on springlullaby, i think he's pulling a strategy similar to scum!FlavorLeaf, where he intentionally blurts out nonsense to make his post skimmed past instead of read thoroughly while at the same time candidating himself to positions of power.
SCUM

Read key:
- no strong reads yet, the players without comments are even weaker than those with comments
- players in-between the confidence lines are sorted by the little content they have. They are placed above the null line if i think there are some posts worthy of being town, below the line if they have a bad content/posts ratio so far.

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

Ame,

I read:

That's what I mean by a filter. It's not perfect, but it's something. If scum care about influencing the quest, they will have to do so first in the public thread, then in the private thread. It's just an idea though. I don't think it's that important if there's not obvious support for it. To be honest, my real agenda was giving critical PRs a way to avoid joining the quest without becoming a target for mafia. But increasing the number who join beyond the minimum kind of diminishes that.

I see your point. I like this idea best, thus far. Say no more.

[Lady Chloe]

Non-clarified reads.

Farkset-Pine-Not Known 15
Raya36-Ame
mastina-Pink Ball-momo-Ginngie-Springlullaby-Hectic
FotC

The day is young, fortunate ones.

HURT: Flight of the Conchords

[Lady Chloe]

springlullaby,

Entertain the value of Ame's plan. Read it more than once if you must.

[Farkset]

Spring gives me jester vibes :S His actions seems to be staged with some self awareness.
~ ker

[Hectic]

Farkran's readlist is very close to my own!

I like Ame's quest plan. However, if we vote for people joining the quest: It would mean this would give important PRs no choice other than soft claiming to avoid being put on if they've been towny. How about people nominate themselves as wanting to go on, and if the consensus is okay with it, they do.

The Mastina case is interesting. I'd like to hear your understanding and what you remembered of Train from the last XP game, Mastina. In the last, it was unable to be used alongside any other actions.

[Hectic]

Doesn't look like Neighbourise is happening anymore lol. It does have

some

value you know, since you can plan actions/tactics with someone you know or strongly believe is town.
Also, in the last game, it was a night action and using it meant you couldn't do anything else that same night - which is admittedly terrible. Something_Smart buffed it for us and everything.

One last thing: The last game had a 1XP to make your night action Loyal option on one of the days. So we could potentially see that or a Disloyal one this game for the day phase, but probably not very likely.

[Lady Chloe]

Ame,

I would appreciate a nuanced opinion of choosing Neighborizer.

May you explain mastina's "mechanic orientation" in the previous game and how that correlates to her behavior here?