Mini Normal 2130: Mafia From Home [Game Over]

[Egix96]

Oh, I can come up with a LOT.
But I've made it a point here that whenever I'm a town-PR, I crumb early, make my claim later with the necessary quotes, and stick to it.
So no, I would never goof around with this as

town

, and scum!Una can play a lot better than you seem to think I could.

??

[Luca Blight]

I’m gonna quote things individually as I’m phone posting and it’s hard to make walls.

If Zantetsu is scum as Battle Mage claims, it raises the possibility that he is trying to redirect our attention from one of Luca/Una. As evidenced by his "This is probably a mod error" stance.

This was Norwegian’s initial reaction to Mage’s guilty on Zant - he’s immediately looking around for someone to line-up as a result of Zant’s red flip.

He says it could be Luca/Una, which in itself defeats its own logic - if he ‘defended’ Una, who you now townread, what’s to say he wouldn’t have ‘defended’ Town!Luca as well? And I don’t even think it was a defence - he was merely pointing out the obvious.

Also, why would Zant!scum necessarily say it’s a mod error when he could have backed the Una train or Luca train if one of us were his partner?

[Egix96]

If anyone still thinks I'm somehow bullshitting with a situation and claim this bold, go ahead.
I really am not.
So based on the result alone, I apparently do not have a guilty on Luca after all.
I guess.

I don't think you are, but it might have been better to do things the other way around here:

He has a hunch there was an error, but rushes forward to reveal his result anyway?

No, I thought I had a guilty on you, and went for the play.
Then went to re-reread my result-PM, because I wanted to make sure there's no wiggle room.
Realized there WAS a small chance for error, and wanted to check it out.
I do not assume it would be my responsibility to double-check my results with the mod.

===

Btw disregard my prev post, I thought you meant to put scum instead of town but the phrasing's just a bit strange.

[Luca Blight]

Zantetsu should claim. In fact i’m starting to wonder if a mass claim wouød be best at this point. Then we can do setup analyzis and find out who is the most believable.

Encourages a mass-claim, which is just scummy as fuck when someone has just claimed a guilty result. Only scum could benefit from a mass-claim at this point.

[Luca Blight]

Having mulled things over, i'd rather follow a guilty made by someone i trust rather than my own scumread off of Una.
VOTE: Zantetsu

Here he’s making out like it’s a momentous decision to follow a guilty result over his own scumread - that’s just obviously what you should do on D2. He’s making it look a considered decision to make it not look like an outright bus.

[Luca Blight]

This is a fair point - would be good to get people's thoughts on who Zant's buddies are likely to be!

As much as this saddens me to say, assuming Una's weird role actually does confirm Luca being scum. It seems a Luca/Zantetsu scum team might be possible. Although i'd definitely want to lynch Zantetsu first, i believe BM's claim more than Una's right now.

And yeah, Zantetsu's attempt to say Una's result on Luca is just a mod error heavily points towards Luca being scum.
So if Zantetsu scum= Turbo lynch Luca Blight tommorow.

This is the main thing that makes me SR Norwegian right now - he went from hard Tr’ing me to seeing zant’s red flip as confirmation that I’m scum.

This is not a rational town thought process - rushing to ludicrous conclusions and decisions. It’s the mark of a desperate mindset scrambling for some compensation, which leads me to believe Norwegian is actually Zant’s partner.

[Luca Blight]

And Town are more likely to have a ‘rational’ thought process when we’re about to lynch scum.

Scum seeing their partner about to fall are more likely to make huge logical leaps to try to spin the situation to their advantage.

[Luca Blight]

From Scum!Norwegian’s perspective, it suited him to townread me and scumread Una at that point in time, but when a) Una and Mage become conftown and b) his partner is about to be lynched, he can’t afford to have me as another strongly TR figure in the room - so he uses the very flimsy association with Zant to try and line up my lynch next.

He can then kill Una tonight, lynch me tomorrow, kill Mage the following night and suddenly town are fucked.

[Luca Blight]

Screw the guilty. Just forget about your role. Can't you see that Zantetsu!scum implicates Luca!scum? No power needed for that.

Oh, I know this.

I'm just pissed off by the fact that my role apparently isn't anything like what the definition implies it should be.

Seriously

By the same logic YOU would be confirmed as Zant’s partner, and that’s certainly what Norwegian would have been pushing if not for your full claim.

[Luca Blight]

If Norwegian turns out to be Town then I’m gonna be pissed, but right now I’m convinced that isn’t a townie thought process and only comes from scum trying to maneuver into position for the win.

Lynch Zant -> Norwegian, and if he flips Town then he’s fucked the game anyway by this ridiculous push and I’ll happily take the next lynch.

Current bet for Norwegian’s partner would be my neighbor, 72. The way he’s lining up the Egix invest makes me wonder if there’s some manipulation (false clear?) there, though.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t mind being lynched tommorow if Luca is next. Obviously i am going to be seen as the best choice for scum!Luca to push once Zantetsu is dead. And yeah, Una is obviously getting killed no matter who the scums are tommorow. Whether i’m town or scum it’s always the best move for mafia.

[Luca Blight]

Alternatively, Una protects Mage, Mage invests Norwegian.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mage isn’t VT so the protect will fail.

[Luca Blight]

I just realised that the pt cop implies a neighbor is scum, which heightens my suspicion of 72.

[Luca Blight]

Both Una and mage target Norwegian, then.

[NorwegianboyEE]

BM and Una can both target me if paranoid. Or we go with the plan i said. I’m fine with either.

[Luca Blight]

I recommend they both target you - only way to guarantee a clear/guilty and potentially avoid an unnecessary lynch, unless there is a scum RB.

[Luca Blight]

If you really are Town then...I don’t know what else to say. Your logic for me being Zant’s partner is ridiculous.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why is it so ridiculous?
If Zantetsu!scum and Una!town equals trye. Then i find it suspicious why Zant would react the way he did to Una’s "guilty" on Luca Blight. He could have voted Luca using that reasoning and pushed it as a mislynch. Instead he worked hard to question the claim and protect you. It reads more like a scum worried about his partner than your typical scum manouvering.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

Simple + Neapolitan (= "a native or inhabitant of Naples").

So if Luca is a neighbour, I should've gotten a "no result". (same for any PR + alignment for that matter)
If Luca were a Vanilla Townie, I would've gotten a "Vanilla Townie" for result.
Instead my result was "not Vanilla". Meaning that with my role-combination the only way I would get that, is if Luca were to be a Vanilla Goon.

If your role is simple neopolitan, and if Luca is a town neighbor, then you should have gotten a No Result on Luca.

Neopolitan on town neighbor would give result "Luca is not a vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does -- gives positives on vanilla town and negatives on everything else.

But then the simple modifier would prevent this and give "No Result", since that's what the simple modifier does -- give the same result as a roleblocked action if the target is not vanilla town.

If your role is simple neopolitan, and Luca is a scum neighbor, then you would have gotten the result "Luca is not vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does.

But the simple modifier would also have kicked in because scum!neighor!Luca is also not vanilla town, so you would have gotten "No Result" there too.

The conclusion is that Luca cannot possibly be a neighbor, either scum or town.

Which means that both Luca and 72 would be lying. Which is possible given that Luca and 72 both made their defenses of each other before Una revealed his simple neopolitan role and thus might not have predicted that Una's role would be one which exactly countered their mutual defense.

Of course, it is also really hard to believe that scum!72 and scum!Luca would defend themselves in this way since it means that lynch of one would then give a guilty on the other. Which would be just about the worst possible association to give as a scum pair. It would mean that you have to win in 5p LYLO and don't even get a 3p LYLO.

But then, why would scum!Una have concocted such a strange and specific fake claim as "simple neopolitan"?

What would be like a huge gambit versus an even huger gambit.

On the other hand ... why would Una claim a guilty on Luca just because he got the result "Luca is not vanilla town" when there is the obvious other possibility that Luca is town with a role?

Luca Blight is scum.
Won't vote anyone else for now.

There is no uncertainty about the above.

Can you explain why scum!Zantetsu would put in all this effort to discredit Una’s claim? And try to de-escalate the situation.
Another point to remember, Zantetsu had no way of knowing he would be exposed as scum moments later when he wrote these posts.

[Luca Blight]

Equally, why would Zant!scum ‘protect’ Town!una, especially when you were hard sr’ing Una?

Fmpov Zant was just pointing out the obvious - that doesn’t make us partners.

Decent scum players don’t opportunistically jump on every little thing they can, and why would he jump on me there? I was under no pressure, the mod had clearly made an error (as scum he would know for sure an error was made as I’m not scum) so why would he push me as scum when the whole thing would go up in smoke once the mod clarified the situation?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Simple + Neapolitan (= "a native or inhabitant of Naples").

So if Luca is a neighbour, I should've gotten a "no result". (same for any PR + alignment for that matter)
If Luca were a Vanilla Townie, I would've gotten a "Vanilla Townie" for result.
Instead my result was "not Vanilla". Meaning that with my role-combination the only way I would get that, is if Luca were to be a Vanilla Goon.

If your role is simple neopolitan, and if Luca is a town neighbor, then you should have gotten a No Result on Luca.

Neopolitan on town neighbor would give result "Luca is not a vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does -- gives positives on vanilla town and negatives on everything else.

But then the simple modifier would prevent this and give "No Result", since that's what the simple modifier does -- give the same result as a roleblocked action if the target is not vanilla town.

If your role is simple neopolitan, and Luca is a scum neighbor, then you would have gotten the result "Luca is not vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does.

But the simple modifier would also have kicked in because scum!neighor!Luca is also not vanilla town, so you would have gotten "No Result" there too.

The conclusion is that Luca cannot possibly be a neighbor, either scum or town.

Which means that both Luca and 72 would be lying. Which is possible given that Luca and 72 both made their defenses of each other before Una revealed his simple neopolitan role and thus might not have predicted that Una's role would be one which exactly countered their mutual defense.

Of course, it is also really hard to believe that scum!72 and scum!Luca would defend themselves in this way since it means that lynch of one would then give a guilty on the other. Which would be just about the worst possible association to give as a scum pair. It would mean that you have to win in 5p LYLO and don't even get a 3p LYLO.

But then, why would scum!Una have concocted such a strange and specific fake claim as "simple neopolitan"?

What would be like a huge gambit versus an even huger gambit.

On the other hand ... why would Una claim a guilty on Luca just because he got the result "Luca is not vanilla town" when there is the obvious other possibility that Luca is town with a role?

Luca Blight is scum.
Won't vote anyone else for now.

There is no uncertainty about the above.

Can you explain why scum!Zantetsu would put in all this effort to discredit Una’s claim? And try to de-escalate the situation.
Another point to remember, Zantetsu had no way of knowing he would be exposed as scum moments later when he wrote these posts.

To look considered/rational about the situation?

He would have no reason to defend me if I were his partner when I’m a neighbor anyway and the result isn’t a guilty, and as Town!luca he’d have no reason to jump on me when he knows the mod himself will soon clarify the situation to Una.

[Luca Blight]

You could say ‘why would Zant go through all that effort to protect Una D1’ - again, to look Town.

And it worked as I was Tr’ing him.

[Luca Blight]

I’m actually coming around to the opinion that you do really believe what you’re saying, but what you’re saying is completely unfounded.

If I’m lynched tomorrow then Town will almost certainly lose - both pr claims will be dead and there are so many slots that are unsorted.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That’s why i said BM should target Egix.