Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Hectic]

That's the problem though, the chance of mafia being assigned to their partner makes that information a lot less valuable.

447 kinda reminds me of a resistance mission though, so I do like the idea of that.

[Ame]

a lot

No a lot. Only a little. Because for this to occur, at least 1 mafia still has to remain outside of the quest so the information is still linked! If there is a kill, we know that 1 of the 6 outside the quest is mafia.

[Lady Chloe]

VOTE: Disable Strongman

Spoiler: Vote Count

Unofficial VC

[Capture] Flight of the Conchords (4)- Raya36, Lady Chloe*, Farkset, Ame
[Capture] springlullaby (4)- momo, Pine, Not Known 15, Hectic
[Capture] Lady Chloe (1)- mastina
[Capture] Hectic (1)- springlullaby
[End Day] (1) - Flight of the Conchords

Not voting (2)- Pink Ball, Ginngie

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-20 13:00:00)

Public Mechanic Vote

Disable Strongman (8)- Farkset, springlullaby, Raya36, Pine, Not Known 15, mastina, Ginngie, Ame
Neighborizer (3)- momo, Flight of the Conchords, Hectic
Train Cop (0)

Not voting (2)- Pink Ball, Lady Chloe*

I'm not sure whether or not Lady Chloe's unvote counts toward the capture or the mechanic.

@mod

what should we use to unvote?

Apologies for the confusion, the unvote was on FotC.

I clarify this now as I skim, since I am quite busy today.

[Hectic]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

[Farkset]

Springullaby how did you write the instances of that list? Literally, what did you do to write it?

Also hectic how confident would you say you are in pinkball alignment right now?

I have a 2-sided theory that i need to explore

-Farkran

Not very. I didn't like 292

Ok.

So, hectic, why was your first thought to townread springlullaby based on the switched positions between you and pinkball? My first thought wasn't that.

I thought that scum could have been discussing joining quests or not in their PT, pinkball could have agreed there before you and before outing it in the main thread and that's how springlullaby parsed it first.

Also, i would think that's a more likely reason for springlullaby to correct that mistake without announcing it. If she wanted to sort the quest takers in order of joining and noticed an error, she could have announced the mistake. Instead, if the mistake could imply a scumslip, she'd just hope nobody would notice.

Now, if i was editing a readlist, i would copypaste the playerlist in a notepad and then copypaste individual names in the order i want them to be. Often, i sort people as i meet them in the playerlist. Like this: 1st player, townread; 2nd player, scumread; etc. I asked springlullaby to explain how she wrote the list because this process can generate errors, so it is still plausible that pinkball got above because he is also above in the original playerlist.

However, it surprises me that Hectic didn't think of the scum PT when he is scumleaning both of the slots involved. I don't know if i should consider this a townslip from hectic.

Anyways, this is a very tinfoil-y theory about what happened, but i think it will be worth to check it for validity when a flip occurs. Today, it's probably worth it to just block springlullaby and see what happens.

HURT: springlullaby

-Farkran

[Farkset]

(i'll read ame's plans in a short while, it's dinner time)

-Farkran

[Hectic]

[Ame]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

Spoiler:

[Ame]

Inverted Quest! The prisoners are the adventurers.

[Ame]

Inverted Quest! The prisoners are the adventurers.

Inverted Quest! The adventures are imprisoned!

[Ame]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

Actually, the thing about this is that it essentially reduces it back to the previously discussed strategies and there would be no need for players to remain outside the quest (We could simply have 6 people assigned to 6 people). Additionally, it is actually preferable that town is in the Quest group (1) for the item selection and receiving and (2)

so that they can train

. Based on the previous game, vanilla have the strongest upgrades, so we want them to be able to do that as soon as possible.

[Ame]

So it's a trade-off between having town train or potentially having preventing mafia from being able to kill (the latter of which it doesn't matter who joins the quest, we can just assign 6 people to 6 people). I think either strategy would be a fruitful path forward.

[Ame]

having

[Hectic]

Hmm, that's true. Also, I realised another thing; scum outside of the quest will opt to just not Train Cop and do something useful/a kill, while town will Train Cop which isn't doing something productive comparatively. So, that may counterbalance the point of scum being forced to Train if they're on the quest, since less town are doing something useful.

[Not Known 15]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

It will give a false guilty on a town autofarmer, though... and Mafia can choose to risk outing someone even if they have people outside.

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

It will give a false guilty on a town autofarmer, though... and Mafia can choose to risk outing someone even if they have people outside.

Do autofarmers from the last game essentially get to Train for free each night? Or do they just get +1XP each night which they can also Train on top of?

[Not Known 15]

so, yeah. Any train cop strategies have a potential miller problem, and bussing makes any results inconclusive. Another good reason to go for Disable Strongman.

[Ame]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

[Hectic]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

I don't think they would show up as "Training" for the Train Cop then.

[springlullaby]

Springullaby how did you write the instances of that list? Literally, what did you do to write it?

Also hectic how confident would you say you are in pinkball alignment right now?

I have a 2-sided theory that i need to explore

-Farkran

Not very. I didn't like 292

Ok.

So, hectic, why was your first thought to townread springlullaby based on the switched positions between you and pinkball? My first thought wasn't that.

I thought that scum could have been discussing joining quests or not in their PT, pinkball could have agreed there before you and before outing it in the main thread and that's how springlullaby parsed it first.

Also, i would think that's a more likely reason for springlullaby to correct that mistake without announcing it. If she wanted to sort the quest takers in order of joining and noticed an error, she could have announced the mistake. Instead, if the mistake could imply a scumslip, she'd just hope nobody would notice.

Now, if i was editing a readlist, i would copypaste the playerlist in a notepad and then copypaste individual names in the order i want them to be. Often, i sort people as i meet them in the playerlist. Like this: 1st player, townread; 2nd player, scumread; etc. I asked springlullaby to explain how she wrote the list because this process can generate errors, so it is still plausible that pinkball got above because he is also above in the original playerlist.

However, it surprises me that Hectic didn't think of the scum PT when he is scumleaning both of the slots involved. I don't know if i should consider this a townslip from hectic.

Anyways, this is a very tinfoil-y theory about what happened, but i think it will be worth to check it for validity when a flip occurs. Today, it's probably worth it to just block springlullaby and see what happens.

HURT: springlullaby

-Farkran

Lol at the bullshit level.

[Ame]

so, yeah. Any train cop strategies have a potential miller problem

Not with the strategy I initially proposed. Autofarm doesn't need to join the quest.

and bussing makes any results .

Huh? Wouldn't we want scum to bus?

[Not Known 15]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

I don't think they would show up as "Training" for the Train Cop then.

and that means town autofarmers produce false guilties.

[Ame]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

I don't think they would show up as "Training" for the Train Cop then.

Right, so they need to work their way into the off-quest group if they exist.

[Hectic]

scum outside of the quest will opt to just not Train Cop and do something useful/a kill, while town will Train Cop which isn't doing something productive comparatively. So, that may counterbalance the point of scum being forced to Train if they're on the quest, since less town are doing something useful.

What do you think of this issue though, Ame?