Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2


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Post Post #2175 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:07 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2171, Shuichi Saihara wrote:I am approaching WANH by trying to read Fire. I don't like that he disappeared.
RadiantCowbells is town. I don't feel the need to engage in paranoia about this right now because I have no shortage of suspects.
Trojan Horses is probably scum, although I may need to think about how much of this is because Auro is my polar opposite.
Lie Ren I have very little opinion about. If someone who is not Vecna would like to try casing them, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'll wait for them to resume posting.
Vecna sounds a little town in places, but his predecessor was scum and his line of attack on me is nonsense built on contorting himself into whatever shape he needs to be in order to suspect me. I do not think this slot is scum with Trojan, as they are not afraid to push on it but also seem perfectly happy to flip their read on it at random.
Baezu I also have very little opinion about. "I don't remember their posts" is not a compelling case at this stage of the game.
SirCakez feels like scum to me. I have taken issue with his posts a few times if you need receipts.
cutting out the explanations and just posting the stances:
In post 2171, Shuichi Saihara wrote: WANH, dunno
RadiantCowbells, town
Trojan Horses, probably scum but dunno
Lie Ren, dunno
Vecna, dunno, not Trojan partner
Baezu, dunno
SirCakez scummy feelz.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaah
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Post Post #2176 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:18 am

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In post 2162, SirCakez wrote:what less active slots are you referring to here? all the lurkers have been replaced now.
Baezu? Elmoh Teh Azn?
Perhaps throw in Lie Ren in there too, given Vecna scumreads him as well?
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Post Post #2177 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:34 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 2173, Trojan Horses wrote:Re: 2049, yeah, what else happened in that while that pissed Sushi off? I'd like to know. It can't be Mastina's behavior, because then he'd express the same sentiments before. I'm implying that it seems like he's scum annoyed that the hammer wasn't a legitimate one, due to the tonal shift.
I don't like it when everyone starts making things personal, and it's strange to me that I have to explain this.
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Post Post #2178 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:35 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 2175, Trojan Horses wrote:
In post 2171, Shuichi Saihara wrote:I am approaching WANH by trying to read Fire. I don't like that he disappeared.
RadiantCowbells is town. I don't feel the need to engage in paranoia about this right now because I have no shortage of suspects.
Trojan Horses is probably scum, although I may need to think about how much of this is because Auro is my polar opposite.
Lie Ren I have very little opinion about. If someone who is not Vecna would like to try casing them, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'll wait for them to resume posting.
Vecna sounds a little town in places, but his predecessor was scum and his line of attack on me is nonsense built on contorting himself into whatever shape he needs to be in order to suspect me. I do not think this slot is scum with Trojan, as they are not afraid to push on it but also seem perfectly happy to flip their read on it at random.
Baezu I also have very little opinion about. "I don't remember their posts" is not a compelling case at this stage of the game.
SirCakez feels like scum to me. I have taken issue with his posts a few times if you need receipts.
cutting out the explanations and just posting the stances:
In post 2171, Shuichi Saihara wrote: WANH, dunno
RadiantCowbells, town
Trojan Horses, probably scum but dunno
Lie Ren, dunno
Vecna, dunno, not Trojan partner
Baezu, dunno
SirCakez scummy feelz.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaah
I have no problem with this. Sorry if you do :]
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Post Post #2179 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:40 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2177, Shuichi Saihara wrote:I don't like it when everyone starts making things personal, and it's strange to me that I have to explain this.
Didn't Mastina make things personal long before that? Or are you explaining why you're annoyed at that she wasn't hammered?
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Post Post #2180 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:41 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

There is a difference between one person going too far and it making the whole thread into a shitshow.

I don't really understand why you're waving around "annoyed that she wasn't hammered" like some sort of gotcha anyway when I've openly stated I would enjoy the game more if she were hammered.
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Post Post #2181 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:55 am

Post by gobbledygook »

Shuichi, do you think this feels like the town Auro we played with in TM?
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Post Post #2182 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:56 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2178, Shuichi Saihara wrote:I have no problem with this. Sorry if you do
There's no need to apologize for getting a scum PM! :P
(I jest)
Shuichi Saihara wrote:There is a difference between one person going too far and it making the whole thread into a shitshow.

I don't really understand why you're waving around "annoyed that she wasn't hammered" like some sort of gotcha anyway when I've openly stated I would enjoy the game more if she were hammered.
I'll explain later


On a side note, I think the fakehammer was very towny for NSG. I believe that fakehammers have a decent chance at producing town reactions, and in a game where solid townreads improve town win % easily, I doubt scum would really test slots that way. Will probably sheep NSG reads barring major disagreements.
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Post Post #2183 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:58 am

Post by gobbledygook »

TH, read on Elmo?
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Post Post #2184 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:01 am

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 2173, Trojan Horses wrote:
In post 2170, gobbledygook wrote:He’s saying she should scum read him only based off her prior knowledge of his scum play (the lack of enthusiasm as scum vs town) when he is displaying a lack of enthusiasm now. His answer to why we should be townreading him never touched on the enthusiasm portion either.

What’s your read on JJh? And what is the conclusion you want us to draw from 2049?
I mean, I don't see the inconsistencies in the first part. Yes, he's playing to his previous scum meta, so he expected her to scumread him with that model in mind - so?
And yes, obviously he doesn't expect to be townread from lack of enthusiasm... why would he bring up that when asked what to townread him for?
I'd basically give the same answer as he did to "why should you be townread". I would say I'm scumhunting and progressing the game and all, but any behavior of mine that
I
can
personally
identify as "towny" I believe can also fake as scum, and therefore I can't give a solid answer.

Dunno about jjh, think there's too less to judge personally, but I wouldn't wanna lynch there anyway.

Re: 2049, yeah, what else happened in that while that pissed Sushi off? I'd like to know. It can't be Mastina's behavior, because then he'd express the same sentiments before. I'm implying that it seems like he's scum annoyed that the hammer wasn't a legitimate one, due to the tonal shift.
He said it should look like he is playing to his previous scum meta to NSG, but in reality he is just playing to his previous scum meta. He didn’t say he was scumhunting or progressing the game, just that he had done something to be town because he is town... which no. He has done nothing. The fact that he cannot pin point anything that he’s done is townie is bad.
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Post Post #2185 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:05 am

Post by Vecna »

SirCakez has such a damn linear progression. Not even an ounce of indication that anything ive written at all has has made him even consider changing his opinion
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Post Post #2186 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

gobbledygook wrote:TH, read on Elmo?
They've not produced any real content. What's yours?
In post 2184, gobbledygook wrote:He said it should look like he is playing to his previous scum meta to NSG, but in reality he is just playing to his previous scum meta. He didn’t say he was scumhunting or progressing the game, just that he had done something to be town because he is town... which no. He has done nothing. The fact that he cannot pin point anything that he’s done is townie is bad.
Yes, he's playing to his previous scum meta and hence it should look like he's scum to NSG. I still don't grok an inconsistency here.
Regarding the latter, what he means is that even if he "scumhunted" or "progressed the game" that wouldn't be something
he believes he should be townread
for.
A brilliant scum player can do all sorts of "towny" stuff and yet be scum, agree? That's sorta what he's getting at, I believe. He's saying that what constitute AI behaviors for him as town are beyond his awareness of them, since if he knew them, those behaviors wouldn't be AI. Perhaps he could've answered about what towny things he's done so far instead, but I think he'd just say "nothing" in response to that.

Now, "scumhunting and game progressing" are things he can do that don't tell you anything about his alignment. The lack of doing so did tell you about his alignment at one point of time, but not necessarily now. Is there anything that makes him
scum
and not null? Something like his interactions around Mastina, for example.
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Post Post #2187 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:26 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 2181, gobbledygook wrote:Shuichi, do you think this feels like the town Auro we played with in TM?
My gut reaction to this is a resounding no.
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Post Post #2188 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:29 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2187, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 2181, gobbledygook wrote:Shuichi, do you think this feels like the town Auro we played with in TM?
My gut reaction to this is a resounding no.
I will also affirm that my play here is rather different from in TM.
You guys wanna put it in words? :P
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Post Post #2189 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:32 am

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 2188, Trojan Horses wrote:
In post 2187, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 2181, gobbledygook wrote:Shuichi, do you think this feels like the town Auro we played with in TM?
My gut reaction to this is a resounding no.
I will also affirm that my play here is rather different from in TM.
You guys wanna put it in words? :P
Yeah you’re scum.
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Post Post #2190 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:36 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

Typically I would use a vote but as previously noted I never stopped voting you and actually I think that's the only vote I've made this game.
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Post Post #2191 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:38 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2189, gobbledygook wrote:Yeah you’re scum.
I'm scum because my play is different from my town play in WF?
Or are there any qualitatively scummy characteristics to my play in this game which were absent in WF? :P
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Post Post #2192 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:39 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2190, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Typically I would use a vote but as previously noted I never stopped voting you and actually I think that's the only vote I've made this game.
Yes, excellent scumhunting!
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Post Post #2193 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:40 am

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 2191, Trojan Horses wrote:
In post 2189, gobbledygook wrote:Yeah you’re scum.
I'm scum because my play is different from my town play in WF?
Or are there any qualitatively scummy characteristics to my play in this game which were absent in WF? :P
Both.
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Post Post #2194 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:41 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

Aaaaand would you like to put them into words?
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Post Post #2195 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:44 am

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 2194, Trojan Horses wrote:
Aaaaand would you like to put them into words?
Why would I do that? You can put them in words for me since you’re so acutely aware of your own meta as either alignment. :) so tell me, what scummy things have you done?

———
In post 2186, Trojan Horses wrote:
gobbledygook wrote:TH, read on Elmo?
They've not produced any real content. What's yours?
In post 2184, gobbledygook wrote:He said it should look like he is playing to his previous scum meta to NSG, but in reality he is just playing to his previous scum meta. He didn’t say he was scumhunting or progressing the game, just that he had done something to be town because he is town... which no. He has done nothing. The fact that he cannot pin point anything that he’s done is townie is bad.
Yes, he's playing to his previous scum meta and hence it should look like he's scum to NSG. I still don't grok an inconsistency here.
Regarding the latter, what he means is that even if he "scumhunted" or "progressed the game" that wouldn't be something
he believes he should be townread
for.
A brilliant scum player can do all sorts of "towny" stuff and yet be scum, agree? That's sorta what he's getting at, I believe. He's saying that what constitute AI behaviors for him as town are beyond his awareness of them, since if he knew them, those behaviors wouldn't be AI. Perhaps he could've answered about what towny things he's done so far instead, but I think he'd just say "nothing" in response to that.

Now, "scumhunting and game progressing" are things he can do that don't tell you anything about his alignment. The lack of doing so did tell you about his alignment at one point of time, but not necessarily now. Is there anything that makes him
scum
and not null? Something like his interactions around Mastina, for example.
The fact that you want this be a purely logical argument is scum indicative of you being buddies with JJH. Scum are more likely to protect themselves in logic since that can be defended.

The fact that he’s done nothing townie is enough for me to scum read him.
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Post Post #2196 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:49 am

Post by gobbledygook »

TH, what do you find scummy about Jormengand and SirCakez?
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Post Post #2197 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:50 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

When did I say I did anything scummy? I haven't ;) you're the one alleging that.
Your case is incredibly shallow, and I am surprised you scumread that I am "pursuing a logical argument" after WF. wth?
The things you've been pushing so far have all been shallow.

You roll scum again Gobble? :o
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Post Post #2198 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:51 am

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 2197, Trojan Horses wrote:When did I say I did anything scummy? I haven't ;) you're the one alleging that.
Your case is incredibly shallow, and I am surprised you scumread that I am "pursuing a logical argument" after WF. wth?
The things you've been pushing so far have all been shallow.

You roll scum again Gobble? :o
Nope, but you did. ;)
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Post Post #2199 (ISO) » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:53 am

Post by Trojan Horses »

In post 2196, gobbledygook wrote:TH, what do you find scummy about Jormengand and SirCakez?
I find Vecna very towny.
SirCakez: is chill with people pushing him which is a self-professed scumtell, was subtly sheeping RC's stances on things, not really having much progression on slots, thinks someone shading him is "a good sign" versus when I do the same he "doesn't get the same vibes" when I bring it up, etc.
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