Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Raya36]

Raya,

Why does my not replying to Ame surprises you?

Because of the way you were playing before. Any mention of not joining the quest or anything negative towards you being leader got a response from you. And you were constantly trying to convince people to join. Seems a bit odd that when someone leaves and says they don't trust you you just take them off the list and leave it at that. Although I will admit you did tone that down a lot. But no response at all?

List of some of the posts you do what I mentioned above
208
213
224
235
302
305
344
400

I addressed the issue with AME once, and despite the smear campaign some people *coughsHecticoughs* who characterize me as some sort of tyrannical beast, I don't pester people, just make sure they notice, and address the plan I wish to make happen. And I'm open to discussion.

I still would have expected even a joking response to it or some acknowledgement besides just updating the list

[Hectic]

HURT: springlullaby

[springlullaby]

I think that not capturing has the same vibe that not lynching has. Would you no lynch on D1 because we don't have enough info? No, because the lynch per se is what gives the most info about players.

We capture someone, and then combined with later flips we get better and stronger cases on players' intentions. Not capturing is saving your money under your mattress. Guess what, you're losing money.

Pink,

I think that lynch + alignment is what give information.
Lynch is informative only retroactively because alignment is revealed.

Don't you agree?

Yes, but if the captured player's alignment is revealed later either because gets lynched or vigged or nightkilled, it adds more information too.

I'm talking way ahead, like let's say D4. "Hey Pink why the fuck did you vote capture on Pine when spring was the main wagon and she was scum with a powerful role, were you trying to derail the wagon?". Fuck yeah you got me, you got me good.

While no capturing has no risks, it has no risks for scum either. You give scum the space to not give info that could be damning later.

Pink,

I get what you are saying, but we are not D4.
And to reprise an earlier image of yours, the money is already in the bank for today.
Wouldn't you agree?

[springlullaby]

Raya,

Why does my not replying to Ame surprises you?

Because of the way you were playing before. Any mention of not joining the quest or anything negative towards you being leader got a response from you. And you were constantly trying to convince people to join. Seems a bit odd that when someone leaves and says they don't trust you you just take them off the list and leave it at that. Although I will admit you did tone that down a lot. But no response at all?

List of some of the posts you do what I mentioned above
208
213
224
235
302
305
344
400

I addressed the issue with AME once, and despite the smear campaign some people *coughsHecticoughs* who characterize me as some sort of tyrannical beast, I don't pester people, just make sure they notice, and address the plan I wish to make happen. And I'm open to discussion.

I still would have expected even a joking response to it or some acknowledgement besides just updating the list

You expected wrong.
I'd like an overall read list from you too.

[Farkset]

Pros of Capturing:

• Can examine wagons/votes for later.
  
• Capturing scum blocks their ability.

Cons of Capturing:

• Potential to block town PRs, or force them to claim.
  
• Wagon information is less useful as it's not that harmful for scum to bus.
  
• No information from a flip.

I think we No Capture.

Pros of Capturing:

• Can examine wagons/votes for later.
  
• Capturing scum blocks their ability.

Cons of Capturing:

• Potential to block town PRs, or force them to claim.
  
• Wagon information is less useful as it's not that harmful for scum to bus.
  
• No information from a flip.

I think we No Capture.

Hmmm didn't think about the bus part, you're right about that

And by the way bussing is beneficial to town anyways so why is it part of the Con list? Let them bus on capture. I mean scum can bus on lynches too, it's up to us to determine whether they did

-Farkran

[Raya36]

Raya,

Why does my not replying to Ame surprises you?

Because of the way you were playing before. Any mention of not joining the quest or anything negative towards you being leader got a response from you. And you were constantly trying to convince people to join. Seems a bit odd that when someone leaves and says they don't trust you you just take them off the list and leave it at that. Although I will admit you did tone that down a lot. But no response at all?

List of some of the posts you do what I mentioned above
208
213
224
235
302
305
344
400

I addressed the issue with AME once, and despite the smear campaign some people *coughsHecticoughs* who characterize me as some sort of tyrannical beast, I don't pester people, just make sure they notice, and address the plan I wish to make happen. And I'm open to discussion.

I still would have expected even a joking response to it or some acknowledgement besides just updating the list

You expected wrong.
I'd like an overall read list from you too.

I'll get that sometime today. Read lists tend to take me a while early game

[Flight of the Conchords]

i think she is the type of player to be excessively

stubborn

as either alignment - pretty

similar to me

-

Thank you very much.

Also the push on lullaby is B.A.D

Now add scumreading us too and everyone else will get what I'm talking about (but not you)

Flight of the Conchords - I don't like TSTBS posts from either alignment, and being a secret hydra i'd assume it comes from experienced players, not newbies. This is the main reason i'm scumleaning them instead of giving them the benefit of doubt.

I mean this is bad. You say you don't like the idea. YOU. You assumed it come from experienced players (when only one completed themed game was required). So you don't know who Bret is and you don't know why he picked neighborizer and you don't understand why leaving strongman in play was no issue for him, and you built your whole case around those unknowns.

Want more? mmK

1) If the 3 scum decide to join the quest, they will have lylo-equivalent voting power for the leader, making it more likely for the leader to be mafia, resulting in a catastrophical failure because they would get xp, gift, and free reins on the kill.

The kill part is solved in the captured version, since the captured player cannot strongman (which i assume it would bypass the roleblock by capture?)

today for a lack of xp.

I also assume that mafia do not start with more than 1 xp.

I'm not sure how much i would place my faith in "Each player starts with 1 XP unless otherwise specified, and players can never have less than 0 XP. Players are always aware of how much XP they have." but... probably they start with 1 xp, or at least most of them do.

1) First bolded segment you made two assumptions. You assumed scum would want to use strongman on N1 and you assumed strongman bypasses the capture blocking effect

2) Second bolded segment you assumed none of the 3 mafia members starts with more than 1 xp when a more reasonable assumption would be for the mod to give one of them 2 xp at the start of the game if they needed to strongman from the beginning which in itself was a bad assumption unless you assume we have more than one protective role from the start too. You even said it yourself, You're not sure how much faith you'd put in your interpretation of the mod's declaration but you still insist it's probably 1. Then you say at least most of them when most of 3 is 2 meaning 1 could have started with more than 1 xp which makes your whole argument look like horseshit when viewed from that angle.

Now should I assume you are a good player? Because if so I find myself obliged to assume you know what you're doing in which case I assume you are scum spreading havoc.

I suggest you step aside and put kerset on for a while. Maybe she can remedy the situation.

-Jemaine

[Pink Ball]

Pros of Capturing:

• Can examine wagons/votes for later.
  
• Capturing scum blocks their ability.

Cons of Capturing:

• Potential to block town PRs, or force them to claim.
  
• Wagon information is less useful as it's not that harmful for scum to bus.
  
• No information from a flip.

I think we No Capture.

Pros of Capturing:

• Can examine wagons/votes for later.
  
• Capturing scum blocks their ability.

Cons of Capturing:

• Potential to block town PRs, or force them to claim.
  
• Wagon information is less useful as it's not that harmful for scum to bus.
  
• No information from a flip.

I think we No Capture.

Hmmm didn't think about the bus part, you're right about that

And by the way bussing is beneficial to town anyways so why is it part of the Con list? Let them bus on capture. I mean scum can bus on lynches too, it's up to us to determine whether they did

-Farkran

I thought capturing only roleblocked, didn't consider the XP thing. I'm back on the capture train

[Pink Ball]

I think that not capturing has the same vibe that not lynching has. Would you no lynch on D1 because we don't have enough info? No, because the lynch per se is what gives the most info about players.

We capture someone, and then combined with later flips we get better and stronger cases on players' intentions. Not capturing is saving your money under your mattress. Guess what, you're losing money.

Pink,

I think that lynch + alignment is what give information.
Lynch is informative only retroactively because alignment is revealed.

Don't you agree?

Yes, but if the captured player's alignment is revealed later either because gets lynched or vigged or nightkilled, it adds more information too.

I'm talking way ahead, like let's say D4. "Hey Pink why the fuck did you vote capture on Pine when spring was the main wagon and she was scum with a powerful role, were you trying to derail the wagon?". Fuck yeah you got me, you got me good.

While no capturing has no risks, it has no risks for scum either. You give scum the space to not give info that could be damning later.

Pink,

I get what you are saying, but we are not D4.
And to reprise an earlier image of yours, the money is already in the bank for today.
Wouldn't you agree?

But we will be on D4 eventually and that's were important decisions should be made, not in D1.

And yes I agree but shhhh I didn't want to reveal that yet 'cause there's still more info we can get

[Flight of the Conchords]

QUEST PLEDGE LIST DAY 1

Confirmed:

springlullaby
Hectic
Pink Ball
Pine
Raya36
Fark
momo
mastina
Ginngie
Flight of the Conchords
Not Known 15

Waiting (lame or scum):

Lady Chloe
Ame

Leader: springlullaby

Correct me, it's free!
Free like what?
Like a spring that lullabee!

I now think I know where Ame is coming from and I doubt she's scum. Her proposition to elect the leader before the night makes sense too as all 13 of us will contribute to it and any attempt to deviate from the plan will be viewed as a scum claim.

My solve is Mastina+(Ginngie+Raya36)/Pink Ball and I already sense some strange vibes going on between Mastina and Ginngie.

Disclaimer: This is still Jemaine's solo solve. Bret is busy so he didn't stop by the hydra PT when he came in.

-Jemaine

[Flight of the Conchords]

a tragedy has occurred. Captain the worst was killed in a freak accident

How's that a tragedy? At worst we won't be shopping for dinner.

-Jemaine

[Flight of the Conchords]

I think that not capturing has the same vibe that not lynching has. Would you no lynch on D1 because we don't have enough info? No, because the lynch per se is what gives the most info about players.

I believe this has been addressed before (and my own hydra partner iirc). One of these two is not like the other. With the lynch we get a flip which in itself is a piece of info. With the capture we get nothing but "this player did not act last night".

-Jemaine

[Flight of the Conchords]

And that's even just a probable assumption because if we assume one mafia starts with 2 xp and if we assume we capture that one specifically and assume the strongman bypasses the capture block we all qualify to be farkan clones.

-Jemaine

[Pink Ball]

I addressed that after, Jemaine. It's information that is useless alone, but later in the game will be useful

[Pink Ball]

Also we're voting disable strongman right?

[Farkset]

Lol jemaine, i never once suggested that scum would want to use strongman n1, and your whole post revolves around that, only to to end in an insult to my play? Ok sure

I mean you didn't invent toxicity-based pushes as scum, you know :}

-Farkran

[Flight of the Conchords]

We capture someone, and then combined with later flips we get better and stronger cases on players' intentions. Not capturing is saving your money under your mattress. Guess what, you're losing money.

You convinced me already.

HURT: Pink Ball

-Jemaine

[Flight of the Conchords]

VOTE: End Day

[Pink Ball]

I don't know why but I have this feeling that Fark is scum but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought of mine

This would be a weird thing for scum to say.

This was a joke because of this post actually, I think it was a pretty solid joke

<subliminal interlude>

FARK IS SCUM

</subliminal interlude>

[Farkset]

To be honest now that you made me think about it, it's very unlikely that scum starts with the necessary xp to overcome capture, otherwise the mechanic would be completely scumsided as it allows for immediate false positives. I don't think this is a plausible assumption.

It's likely that all scum start with exactly 1 xp.

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

I will return to the thread tonight or tomorrow.

[Flight of the Conchords]

You forgot about xp drain. When scum gets captured they lose all xp and they can't gain this on n1. On n2 they need to train, so it disables their killing abilities them up to n3.
It's main advantage is that it narrows down people capable of nighkilling.
~Kerset

This time it's my bad. I assumed you could at least read.

[Capture]
All players may vote to block another player using Capture: Player or HURT: Player. Once a majority is reached, the day ends and that player is captured. The captured player will be unable to take any actions (personal or factional, including Training) the following night, and if they are aligned with the Mafia,

they will lose 1 XP.

Now where did the "all xp" in your post come from? Ah. I forgot you had assumed they started with 1 xp. I also assume you assumed there are no alternate ways of gaining xp besides training. I now assume you will assume that I'm tunneling you which -I won't lie- maybe the one assumption you have made so far with good justification.

-Jemaine

[Flight of the Conchords]

1) Capturing doesn't force anyone to claim. You are not removed from the game if you don't,

you just lose 1 xp

, up to 2 considering that you cannot train if you wanted to. Spring claimed on her own, and that was a terrible claim both in timing and nature. Voyeur is an uncommon enough role to assume no counterclaim would happen, and a weak enough role to validate surviving n1.

Monovision at it's prime. It assumes the captired player is 100% scum aligned.

-Jemaine

[Raya36]

I don't know why but I have this feeling that Fark is scum but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought of mine

This would be a weird thing for scum to say.

This was a joke because of this post actually, I think it was a pretty solid joke

<subliminal interlude>

FARK IS SCUM

</subliminal interlude>

Oh I see. I overlooked that those were related. 10/10 joke

[Flight of the Conchords]

2) I find it very unlikely that a town PR only costs 1 xp to upgrade, even if it is a bad role. She said she misread, but then she never claimed the correct amount. After claiming role and xp, there was nothing to prevent her from telling the whole truth

Would you like her to post he role pm too? We may ask for a special permission from the listmods because frakran wills it.

-Jemaine