Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Ame]

momo, Pink Ball, Farkset, Pine are you all good with choosing the leader today through majority vote? We can vote using Leader: Player.

[Ame]

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

It does, thank you. Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Also @Kerset head I'm curious about the RPG thing.

[Ame]

I think it's kind of tunneling. There are some cases but they seem more like they're forced cases in my opinion. I need to look more into it but I think it is possible one of the two are scum pushing for an easy target. That said I get a bit overwhelmed in games where this kind of stuff goes on for pages so this is just what I got out of a skim of it.

Which of the two do you think has the higher potential to be scum?

[Farkset]

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

It does, thank you. Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Also @Kerset head I'm curious about the RPG thing.

I asked about it, because it was unclear to me.
~ker

[Pine]

momo, Pink Ball, Farkset, Pine are you all good with choosing the leader today through majority vote? We can vote using Leader: Player.

I don’t have a problem with that.

Leader: Ame

[Farkset]

Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Is it your intention to ask what sounds like a loaded question, or just a coincidence? I'm starting to get paranoid of this line of thought because the day sentiment is to prevent spamming, and yet i am asked to drag a dead argument forward - it's ok if you have your reasons to do so, but i'd like you to explain what you wanted to achieve by asking this.

I mean, you seem to imply that i have a method to ascertain your alignment with 100% accuracy after springlullaby flips. Obviously i don't. I just have my opinion, which is only valid for the current state of things, by which i would look at springlullaby mid-to-late attackers first if she flips town; otherwise i would look at people who supported her for little reason.

Townreading springlullaby, or townreading scum in general, does not make you inherently scum. It only makes it more plausibly so if you didn't have a reason to be wrong on your read. For instance, i don't see what reasons you have to assign quest leadership to springlullaby, even if you townread her - it seems too much of a stretch, why are you not doubting springlullaby alignment in this circumstance, instead trusting the +1 xp and the item reward in favor of the town? Of course we will need to choose a leader, and player A isn't better or worse than player B until we don't know their alignment, but why would you go specifically against the flow and pick the currently highest consensus scumread as your leader? Do you have reason to think your read is more accurate than everyone else scumreading her? If so, why?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

momo, Pink Ball, Farkset, Pine are you all good with choosing the leader today through majority vote? We can vote using Leader: Player.

I don’t have a problem with that.

Leader: Ame

Let's make it so players cannot vote themselves during this tally.

Leader: Hectic

-Farkran

[Ame]

momo

Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.

(1) Have you done either of these yet? The meta dives that is.
(2) Who do you find suspicious other than Spring?
(3) What do you think of the reasoning presented in 454?
(4) What's the origin of your username? I think of momo from A:TLA. But also of peaches.

Pine

(1) What do you think of the town read on you by Ginnie?
(2) What do you think of the town read on you by Farkset?
(3) What do you think of the town read on you by Raya?
(4) Who would you be suspicious of if Spring is town?

Lady

(1) What

is

your read on Spring?
(2) What are your thoughts on Raya? In particular, I'm curious what you think about her read on you and on Pine as presented in 854.
(3) I don't think momo ever responded to your 282 or did he? If not, how come you haven't followed up on it? If so, what did you get (or intend to) get out of it?
(4) My spidey senses are going off about the quest. Please join me? I don't have a logical reason or anything, it's just intuition.

Pink Ball

(1) Have you made any progress on your Hectic read?
(2) What do you make of his progression here:

Spoiler:

Hectic,
I thought I dismantled all your reasons for scumSpring?

I thought you wanted to capture springlullaby a little while ago because she was lowering morale/spirits? Pushing her as leader encourages her behaviour and does the opposite.

Honestly, I have no idea what alignment springlullaby is, but I would feel really bad if she was scum and I townread her for this play. Admittedly, my vote is very biased.

I changed my mind on Spring in 549. Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Can you address this, Hectic? I'm trying to understand why you're pushing for Spring capture when you no longer have a valid reason for doing so.

grumble grumble
Fine. My vote is entirely biased at this point. Now, the question is where I should be voting instead.

Wait, no. I admit I'm trying to find reasons to scumread her, but:
-Her unprompted claim. Not bringing it up at any point after.
-745
-Her reads/takes completely disalign with my own.

I don't see anywhere else that's better right now.

-The unprompted claim seemed pretty townie though. I've never seen scum claim in that fashion, have you? FoC's is far more suspicious because it was for justification purposes.
-What is scummy about 745?
-What is scummy about that? Are your reads strong?

I don't think in your heart (or possibly mind) you really believe she is scum. Don't let the bias cloud your judgment! If Spring is just a fallback why haven't you pushed anyone else? Also why do you keep engaging with Spring when clearly nothing is coming out of your interaction except a loop of 'NO U'

Sigh, who should I vote then, Ame? I think Pink Ball, Giingie, and momo are probably worth looking into.

I could go Pink Ball or momo. Do you not town lean Giingie? I thought you like their response before?

HURT: momo

(3) 718 !

Ginnie

(1) Do you have an impression of mastina's alignment?
(2) Does mastina town read you when you're town regardless of her alignment? Or has she ever pushed you when she was scum?
(3) TT Go is actually pretty funny!

mastina

(1) yo where you @ dawg

[Pine]

Pine

(1) What do you think of the town read on you by Ginnie?
(2) What do you think of the town read on you by Farkset?
(3) What do you think of the town read on you by Raya?
(4) Who would you be suspicious of if Spring is town?

I don't really have much opinion of their reads on me - they're for good, analytical reasons, and they're right. That's pretty NAI.

I don't know that Spring has any real associatives worth pursuing unless she's scum. By and large, if someone flips Town I'll give their thoughts another look, but it means they didn't have any privileged information. If they flip scum, then their reads require analysis.

[Ginngie]

(1) Do you have an impression of mastina's alignment?
(2) Does mastina town read you when you're town regardless of her alignment? Or has she ever pushed you when she was scum?
(3) TT Go is actually pretty funny!

town, I like her use of emojis(read the chart nerds)

mastina will never compromise her ability to read me. She gives that up I no longer have to worry about her ever again.

[Pink Ball]

Pink Ball

(1) Have you made any progress on your Hectic read?
(2) What do you make of his progression here:

Spoiler:

Hectic,
I thought I dismantled all your reasons for scumSpring?

I thought you wanted to capture springlullaby a little while ago because she was lowering morale/spirits? Pushing her as leader encourages her behaviour and does the opposite.

Honestly, I have no idea what alignment springlullaby is, but I would feel really bad if she was scum and I townread her for this play. Admittedly, my vote is very biased.

I changed my mind on Spring in 549. Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Can you address this, Hectic? I'm trying to understand why you're pushing for Spring capture when you no longer have a valid reason for doing so.

grumble grumble
Fine. My vote is entirely biased at this point. Now, the question is where I should be voting instead.

Wait, no. I admit I'm trying to find reasons to scumread her, but:
-Her unprompted claim. Not bringing it up at any point after.
-745
-Her reads/takes completely disalign with my own.

I don't see anywhere else that's better right now.

-The unprompted claim seemed pretty townie though. I've never seen scum claim in that fashion, have you? FoC's is far more suspicious because it was for justification purposes.
-What is scummy about 745?
-What is scummy about that? Are your reads strong?

I don't think in your heart (or possibly mind) you really believe she is scum. Don't let the bias cloud your judgment! If Spring is just a fallback why haven't you pushed anyone else? Also why do you keep engaging with Spring when clearly nothing is coming out of your interaction except a loop of 'NO U'

Sigh, who should I vote then, Ame? I think Pink Ball, Giingie, and momo are probably worth looking into.

I could go Pink Ball or momo. Do you not town lean Giingie? I thought you like their response before?

HURT: momo

(3) 718 !

(1) Yes, I did my homework. Hectic being serious instead of jokey joke is NAI. Being intimidated and awkward, instead, are scumtraits from him. I don't think he has shown any of those traits while being pressured by spring.
(2) Combined with what I said in (1), it looks much more like a town realizing they're tunneled rather than a scum who got in the spotlight of a fake read and it's trying to back off because of self awareness
(3) You make my heart go brrrr

And to answer your question about leadership: I'm ok with voting, I have not decided who I want to vote. I'm between spring and you, both with something in common, both with an opposite approach: I'm townreading both of you, but one has a confrontational approach that could be helpful 'cause it's harder to pocket or control by scum, and the other is a conciliator that can make town work together instead of pull it apart.

I'm inclined to the first option only because I think it would be funnier

[Flight of the Conchords]

I'm happy to vote spring as leader. I expect Jemaine will agree.

- Bret

[Ame]

Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Is it your intention to ask what sounds like a loaded question,

(1)

or just a coincidence? I'm starting to get paranoid of this line of thought because the day sentiment is to prevent spamming, and yet i am asked to drag a dead argument forward -

(2)

it's ok if you have your reasons to do so, but i'd like you to explain what you wanted to achieve by asking this.

I mean, you seem to imply that i have a method to ascertain your alignment with 100% accuracy after springlullaby flips. Obviously i don't. I just have my opinion, which is only valid for the current state of things, by which

(3)

i would look at springlullaby mid-to-late attackers first if she flips town; otherwise i would look at people who supported her for little reason.

(4)

Townreading springlullaby, or townreading scum in general, does not make you inherently scum. It only makes it more plausibly so if you didn't have a reason to be wrong on your read.

-Farkran

I just wanted specifics. The way you've been wording it, such as in Line

3

, looks like a way to adapt your opinion as you see fit. I wasn't looking for you to say player X is 100% Z if Spring flips Y. I as looking for you to say I would suspect player X, if Spring flips Y. If you know that your suspicions would increase based on certain actions and a certain flip, then you should be able to specifically say who you would suspect based on their actions in the event of said flip.

I got the impression from your original post on the matter that you were attempting to set up a scum read on me and Lady without committing to it, so I wanted you to specifically state it. From the way you have gone about partially answering over this series of posts, I suspect you are playing with optics in mind and that you didn't want to directly confront me. Even now, you're being fairly political (lines

1

and

2

).

In 553, in the event of town!Spring, you speculated that scum are either pushing LHF or TMI town-reading her and attempting to pocket. This gives you the option to scumread both the people that are pushing her and the people that are town reading her in the event of a town flip. This leads me to suspect that your speculation was agenda-driven because it left no way to conclude anything about her flip (I'm just going to say her flip for the rest of her post because saying town!flip every time is a bit pedantic). In other words, the post can be summed up as "If Spring flips town, anyone can be scum." What was the town intent behind this post, because as I see it there is no town value, only scum value—positioning and leaving options open for future pushes.

Furthermore, in that post, you linked my 550 as one of the people town reading her, meaning you were speculating that I was on the TMI town-reading her side of things. Yet over this conversation, you've changed that to having suspicion of me if Sring flips

scum

:

860

The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum.

Verified in line

4

above.

This is what I mean about leaving your options open and presuming scum in either case: if she flipped town I would be scum TMI reading her, but if she flipped scum, I would be scum too? The conclusion is coming

before

the evidence, which is a sign of an agenda-driven argument. Currently, you're my top suspicion.

Here is the full course of our conversation for convenience's sake:

Spoiler:

@Fark
@Hectic
@momo

You guys never try to evolve or learn from your mistakes, do you? Always surface level reads and always trying to fit the game narrative to your preconceived delusional way of seeing things.

P.S. If Ame is town aligned then add her to the list above.

-Jemaine

Unless i have past experiences with you, i'd like to see you quote some posts of mine that are surface level and delusional/manipulative.

For the record, based on this post, 550 and 313 VS the "opposition" i think there is a clear fracture around springlullaby and how to treat her slot. There is only one reason currently to believe she could be town, and that's how others are behaving around her. I think it's more than plausible that scum are putting up a theater to achieve several results:

1) distance themselves by having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby
2) those who are siding against her (and the majority) are pushing a very easy lhf
3) those who are siding with her will be pocketing her hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

This is dependant on springlullaby's flip though and i can't get over some of her posts, so i'm not changing my vote there for today. It will not achieve a flip, but it is the correct choice and despite the above reasoning there is no small chance that spring will flip scum when a flip is available.

-Farkran

but it is the correct choice and despite the above reasoning there is no small chance that spring will flip scum when a flip is available.

What's the above reasoning? The above was a presentation of town!Spring wasn't it? Also you're saying that me and Lady are pocketing spring? Does that mean you scum read me?
:

I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though. I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. (1) My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, (2) a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, (3) and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

How much weight would you say each of these contributes toward you scum read?

Roughly 50% (random is 23%)

I dislike spring's early posts, then she improved on tone but content is still lackluster. i misjudged her player profile at first, i think she is the type of player to be excessively stubborn as either alignment - pretty similar to me - and that would explain why the cases against hectic and me are pretty much "you don't agree with me so you must be scum", which is an ok argument to make initially if you want the game to progress, but it needs to be explored and confronted with your reads of other people. You may be unable to remove confbias as town, but when you don't even try it usually comes from scum. And that claim was bad.

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

-Farkran

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

This is a false dichotomy though that doesn't leave room for town motivation in either case. Which slots would you scum read if she flipped town and which slots would you scum read if she flipped scum? Also, why did you ask me about the RPG thing?

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

This is a false dichotomy though that doesn't leave room for town motivation in either case. Which slots would you scum read if she flipped town and which slots would you scum read if she flipped scum? Also, why did you ask me about the RPG thing?

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

Lastly, post 750-752 is how i would express myself if i was good at communicating.

Sleeptime, good night everyone

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

Yes, sorry. If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and to a lesser extent you for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

My question is why do you ask?

Lady Chloe, and to a lesser extent you for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

So if Spring flips town you think Lady and I are scum TMIing her? And if she flips scum Lady is chainsawing her? Why am I not town simply town reading her. Do you think the points you've brought up for scum!spring are strong? Also you've put Lady in a position where she is scum in either case: TMIing for potentially supporting a Spring vote, chainsawing for voting end of day. This comes off to me as a bad faith push as you are preparing to conclude that she is scum in either case.

This is correct - including the "not so easier" part. However, do you (@Ame) disagree that the town is fractured around springlullaby and that we can clearly identify those who are protecting her and those who are attacking her? Have you been wondering why? I find it hard to believe there are reasons so extreme to lean springlullaby town as to see people willing to end the day instead of capturing - anyone, not just springlullaby - just to save her. Just as it is weird to me to see people advocating for springlullaby as a quest leader. It's an unbelievable level of confidence at this point in time, but you are also part of these people and i wonder if i have been missing something, because i don't particularly scumread you, if i take you independently of springlullaby.

I think scumreading Spring is rather odd at this point. And I think it's suspicious that you haven't been able to give me a clear answer on who specifically you would read based on each flip. If it will be easier to see who is protecting/chainsawing, then you should be able to just imagine that she has flipped and tell me who you scum/town read, yes? I feel like you may not be reading Spring with sincerity and that perhaps your distaste for her play so far is biasing your judgment?

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

It does, thank you. Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Also @Kerset head I'm curious about the RPG thing.

Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Is it your intention to ask what sounds like a loaded question, or just a coincidence? I'm starting to get paranoid of this line of thought because the day sentiment is to prevent spamming, and yet i am asked to drag a dead argument forward - it's ok if you have your reasons to do so, but i'd like you to explain what you wanted to achieve by asking this.

I mean, you seem to imply that i have a method to ascertain your alignment with 100% accuracy after springlullaby flips. Obviously i don't. I just have my opinion, which is only valid for the current state of things, by which i would look at springlullaby mid-to-late attackers first if she flips town; otherwise i would look at people who supported her for little reason.

Townreading springlullaby, or townreading scum in general, does not make you inherently scum. It only makes it more plausibly so if you didn't have a reason to be wrong on your read. For instance, i don't see what reasons you have to assign quest leadership to springlullaby, even if you townread her - it seems too much of a stretch, why are you not doubting springlullaby alignment in this circumstance, instead trusting the +1 xp and the item reward in favor of the town? Of course we will need to choose a leader, and player A isn't better or worse than player B until we don't know their alignment, but why would you go specifically against the flow and pick the currently highest consensus scumread as your leader? Do you have reason to think your read is more accurate than everyone else scumreading her? If so, why?

-Farkran

For instance, i don't see what reasons you have to assign quest leadership to springlullaby, even if you townread her - it seems too much of a stretch, why are you not doubting springlullaby alignment in this circumstance, instead trusting the +1 xp and the item reward in favor of the town? Of course we will need to choose a leader, and player A isn't better or worse than player B until we don't know their alignment, but why would you go specifically against the flow and pick the currently highest consensus scumread as your leader? Do you have reason to think your read is more accurate than everyone else scumreading her? If so, why?

~I think Spring's play is obvious town. The crudeness. The claim. Her reads. The points she's made (except there was one about Hectic that was really silly, as well as her points on me, but otherwise).
~How is she the highest consensus scum read? Youish, Hecticish, momo, NK, Pine scum read her. Me, Pink, FoC, Raya strongly town read her. Lady, mastina, Ginnie haven't voiced an opinion (that I remember).

@Lady, you've voiced suspicions of Fark. @Spring @FoC, you and I scumread Fark. @Raya, you believe that one of Hectic and Fark is scum. @Pink, you think one of the Spring's wagoners is scum. Let us form an alliance, for today at least, and capture Fark.

HURT: Farkset

Leader: Spring

[Farkset]

So, basically you're saying that since i have an opinion rather than hard evidence, i am scum. Your questions were indeed loaded, because you were already going to post this no matter what was my answer. Either i wouldn't commit to my previous read, or my reads are scummy = i am scum no matter what.

You are guilty of the same accusation you move onto me. You demanded answers that i cannot give beyond what i have already expressed multiple times in the thread: i think springlullaby's flip is pivotal to sort the game; i think chloe is scummy independent of springlullaby; i think you, ame, have very little reason to defend springlullaby and the same could be said about flight of the conchorde. I think hectic and pine are towny regardless of the flip, whereas i would look at momo and pinkball under a new light based on springlullaby's flip. You forced your opinion on me by misreporting what you said was a dichotomy where in reality it wasn't, and this has been explained by hectic before me (805) meaning that either:
1. Both me and hectic are scum together, because otherwise i would have had no way to explain it to him
2. You are unable/don't care to read what i write and you already decided i was scum before this exchange.

I am still unable to sort you based on this, because there is a significant chance that you are tunneled town, but you should reread your own words and mine by making sure to remove confbias - you will realize that i have my own reasons to say what i have said, and you have been unable or unwilling to understand them.

The spoilered part is a summary of this exchange:

Spoiler: Ame

I got the impression from your original post

on the matter that you were attempting to set up a scum read on me and Lady without committing to it, so I wanted you to specifically state it. From the way you have gone about partially answering over this series of posts, I suspect you are playing with optics in mind and that you didn't want to directly confront me. Even now, you're being fairly political (lines 1 and 2).

This is evidence that you started this exchange with a conclusion in mind rather than with the purpose of sorting.

In 553, in the event of town!Spring, you speculated that scum are either pushing LHF or TMI town-reading her and attempting to pocket. This gives you the option to scumread both the people that are pushing her and the people that are town reading her in the event of a town flip.

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Furthermore, in that post, you linked my 550 as one of the people town reading her, meaning you were speculating that I was on the TMI town-reading her side of things. Yet over this conversation, you've changed that to having suspicion of me if Sring flips

scum

:

860

The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum.

Verified in line 4 above.

No. You are one of the slots that interacted weirdly with springlullaby, long before this exchange and long before my 1v1 with springlullaby herself. I have no presumption to have a read better than yours, but it's different if you are

weird but right

as opposed to

weird and wrong

, you must agree to this.

This is what I mean about leaving your options open and presuming scum in either case: if she flipped town I would be scum TMI reading her, but if she flipped scum, I would be scum too? The conclusion is coming

before

the evidence, which is a sign of an agenda-driven argument. Currently, you're my top suspicion.

And this is the final trap: if i am scummy for "leaving my options open" and the alternative is "knowing the truth" - a trait of the scumteam - i have no way to engage with you, i am scum no matter what.

Good night

-Farkran

[Farkset]

~I think Spring's play is obvious town. The crudeness. The claim. Her reads. The points she's made (except there was one about Hectic that was really silly, as well as her points on me, but otherwise)

I want you to elaborate this.
What are spring reads aside of those two you mention?

Spoiler: posts

40 rsv
41 mech
99 mech
103 ask ame
104 spam
209 shade ame
112 shade ame
114 shade ame even more
119 mech
122 mech
127 shade hectic
129 shade ame
130 mech
132 shade ame
133 spam
135 mech
151 mech
152 quest spam
154 shade hectic
155 ask hectic
157 argue hectic
160 argue hectic
164 mech
165 argue hectic
168 shade hectic
170 spam
173 quest spam
178 quest spam
183 quest spam
185 quest spam
201 shade hectic
202 ask pine
207 quest spam
208 quest spam
210 quest spam
212 mech
213 ask raya
214 ask raya
217 shade momo after being voted
224 quest spam
225 spam
226 shade hectic
228 shade hectic
230 ok
235 autoirony
253 mech
254 shade fark after being voted
255 argue fark vote
258 argue fark vote
260 argue fark vote
262 argue fark vote
265 argue fark vote
266 answer fark
268 argue hectic
270 argue hectic
273 argue hectic
274 ask Not Known after being voted
277 argue hectic
278 spam
281 argue momo again after being voted
284 argue hectic
286 tl on masti and chloe
287 spam
288 ask hectic
293 shade hectic and fark
302 quest spam
305 quest spam
307 mech
310 argue NK15 after being voted
312 ask FOC
317 refuse readlist, shade hectic
318 shade fark
320 mech
324 ?
333 shade fark/mech
337 ask? after being voted
339 call out lurkers
342 quest spam
344 quest spam
346 quest spam
348 questioning
350 questioning
354 questioning
366 repeat himself
367 mech
374 quest spam
379 shade hectic
381 spam
391 argue hectic
393 shade hectic
394 shade hectic
396 shade hectic
399 shade hectic
400 quest spam
402 idk
404 idk
405 joke
409 shade hectic
410 shade hectic
411 vote
415 shade ginngie
416 argue hectic
420 dislike that ginngie voted him
423 'lol'
425 call out that hectic vote him

That is how spring posts look like. What kind of reads did you like there? In terms of mechanical approach he disagreed with you.

[Farkset]

~I think Spring's play is obvious town. The crudeness. The claim. Her reads. The points she's made (except there was one about Hectic that was really silly, as well as her points on me, but otherwise)

I want you to elaborate this.
What are spring reads aside of those two you mention?

Spoiler: posts

40 rsv
41 mech
99 mech
103 ask ame
104 spam
209 shade ame
112 shade ame
114 shade ame even more
119 mech
122 mech
127 shade hectic
129 shade ame
130 mech
132 shade ame
133 spam
135 mech
151 mech
152 quest spam
154 shade hectic
155 ask hectic
157 argue hectic
160 argue hectic
164 mech
165 argue hectic
168 shade hectic
170 spam
173 quest spam
178 quest spam
183 quest spam
185 quest spam
201 shade hectic
202 ask pine
207 quest spam
208 quest spam
210 quest spam
212 mech
213 ask raya
214 ask raya
217 shade momo after being voted
224 quest spam
225 spam
226 shade hectic
228 shade hectic
230 ok
235 autoirony
253 mech
254 shade fark after being voted
255 argue fark vote
258 argue fark vote
260 argue fark vote
262 argue fark vote
265 argue fark vote
266 answer fark
268 argue hectic
270 argue hectic
273 argue hectic
274 ask Not Known after being voted
277 argue hectic
278 spam
281 argue momo again after being voted
284 argue hectic
286 tl on masti and chloe
287 spam
288 ask hectic
293 shade hectic and fark
302 quest spam
305 quest spam
307 mech
310 argue NK15 after being voted
312 ask FOC
317 refuse readlist, shade hectic
318 shade fark
320 mech
324 ?
333 shade fark/mech
337 ask? after being voted
339 call out lurkers
342 quest spam
344 quest spam
346 quest spam
348 questioning
350 questioning
354 questioning
366 repeat himself
367 mech
374 quest spam
379 shade hectic
381 spam
391 argue hectic
393 shade hectic
394 shade hectic
396 shade hectic
399 shade hectic
400 quest spam
402 idk
404 idk
405 joke
409 shade hectic
410 shade hectic
411 vote
415 shade ginngie
416 argue hectic
420 dislike that ginngie voted him
423 'lol'
425 call out that hectic vote him

That is how spring posts look like. What kind of reads did you like there? In terms of mechanical approach he disagreed with you.

~ker

[Ame]

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Nope. It's literally what you said:

1) distance themselves by

having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby

2) those who are

siding against her

(and the majority) are

pushing a very easy lhf

3) those who are

siding with her

will be

pocketing her

hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think

we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

[Ame]

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

[Ame]

Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince

him

in the first place (291 + 384).

Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):

I think it's more likely to flip red though.

(1)

My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,

(2)

a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,

(3)

and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

1

This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.

2

This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.

3

As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.

So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.

[Farkset]

@Ame, We made 102 posts by now. With tunnel vision like yours in 892, you will find evidence anywhere. Do you want me to pick farkran town game and sample points like those?
Team mafia game for example

Spoiler:

Also I called it bad purely because it was out of place.

I interpret this opinion as in everyone is currently null to you?

Correct me if i am wrong - i fail to see the need of commenting my readlist if you don't agree nor disagree with it, unless you think i made it up in which case you are currently scumleaning me - again,

please tell me where i am wrong, i don't want to put words in your mouth

, just voicing my thoughts

@volpe generally speaking i understand your concerns but surely you must have some thoughts about anka now, if not about him directly, you should have noticed some people revolving around him

From your posts i get that you're trying to give your direction to the game and that is NAI - not being trustful of other players fits either with a paranoid town mindset or a scum looking for a broad lynchpool

Which one are you?

You've watched me solve that normal 2106 in the dead thread, didn't you?

Do you think you need to ask what kind of player I'm? Do you really have no speculations of your own?

I honestly forgot about you in the normal dead chat, sorry

i remember liking your posts but i didn't associate them with your nickname (i.e. in my mind i went like "player x posted stuff i like"). It may be helpful but i cannot form a super specific profile of you based on that only. Spectating is way different than actively playing.

That being said i already offered my interpretation of your posts here, and i want to hear more of your opinions of the current gamestate.

Right now you are mostly dodging questions and/or turning them back at who asked them, which is fine for a while but some answers would also be appreciated

once he [FLAVOR LEAF] realized he was on the losing side he backed out.

speaking of which, where exactly in the thread is this?

Post 596 and following. I don't believe that is a pure reconsideration without turning to someone else. I read Flavor Leaf as someone who takes hard stances and does not back off a stance without assuming a different one - voting nom, or me, would have been consistent with his progression thus far but he didn't. He just backed off and turned to AtE. I'm waiting for him to come up with more content when he has slept on it or something, but atm i think he's my highest scumread.

On a side note, your analysis of my posts makes sense,

but stuff happened around you is still concerningand i'd like to hear a full readlist from you.

I am pretty sure that you are going to deny this but you overread fark like horoscope. You see what you want to see in him. I doubt that you are familiar with his writing style at all.
~ker

[Ame]

Superficially, they look the same, but his tone is completely different in those. It's a good enough counter to kill that leg of the argument, however, so I won't waste either of our time going into it.

[springlullaby]

Don't bother it's scum.^

Youish, Hecticish, momo, NK, Pine scum read her. Me, Pink, FoC, Raya strongly town read her. Lady, mastina, Ginnie

You know what, I just noticed something.
If certain people are not scum, they are def going to be held accountable.

[mastina]

Pink Ball,

May you weigh the pros and cons you see to capturing an individual today?

I'm interested in this, and your comments after pink ball answer

I have my own opinion on the matter too

-Farkran

Hi. Quoting this as a reminder to myself.
I've been on mafiascum for over nine hours--I am dead tired and completely. And entirely. Drained. (For good reason, mind.) I don't have the capacity for catching up on this game, will do so tomorrow, maybe.

[Flight of the Conchords]

Quest leader vote pledges:

springlullaby quest leader (3):

springlullaby, mastina, ame

Not voting (10):

Pink Ball
Raya36
Pine
Ginngie
Lady Chloe
momo
Flight of the Conchords (secret hydra)
Not Known 15
Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Hectic

Pledge your vote before entering the quest, or you will be deemed scummy.
This is to ensure no wiggle room at night.
If you are against the idea, please say so and explain.

.... public service announcement ....

DO NOT VOTE FOR THE AXIS OF EVIL

.... /public service announcement ....

I support the notion. We will vote Springlullaby for leader.

-Jemaine

[Flight of the Conchords]

I will also support this

HURT: Farkset