Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Farkset]

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

All of these are the same thing: me pointing out weird interactions with springlullaby. All of those terms are generalizations/specifications of the same concept. You read what you want to read.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

1) It's hedgey? Like seriously? It obviously means that i didn't, ever, towncase springlullaby.
3, 4, 5, 6) Ok, next time i'll send everyone to fuck off just to make you happy. Or, like, not.

Honestly - you put effort into this case, but it's weak, reachy and loaded. This is worth analyzing - is this outside of your scumrange? Please link some of your scumgames.

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

My, how informative these posts were after my 848

Spoiler: Conversation

springlullaby and Farkset,

May you both kindly

quiet down

?

It is hard enough to filter this game with 2/3 top three posters argue and bicker for pages on end, but for you both to assume I and other players pick sides is a scum-motivation or scum-favored tactic on both of you.

I'm speaking to you, Farkran, who deem Ame and I as potential associatives to potential springlullably-scum without even consulting our opinions of her, which is an easy excuse for you.
I'm speaking to you, springlullaby, because your voting is inconsistent and it's difficult to navigate where you want this day to go, you calling for my opinion is dismissive of what I try to tell you.

If you both believe the other is scum, then drop the conversation, and negotiate with other players.

This goes nowhere.

^
What do you want to tell me?

Also, I'm fine with voting end day.
Farkscum is obscum is what I'm saying.

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

springlullaby shows a willingness to indulge in my thoughts, while providing an option alternate to my vote on ending the day.

Farkran waits to reply to another person, outlining that I am independently a scumlean despite his previous reasons of suspecting me to be associative, and inquires to another player if they believe I have faked being the mediator.

While both may come from either alignment given a player's skill, I enjoy springlullaby's best given the necessity for town to reach a consensus on the game. One is an example of good faith solving, and the other being less so.

This was the hands-on sorting that I needed to read them better.

[Lady Chloe]

Blessed Ones,

And even if spring was scum which is unlikely, roleblocking a claimed voyeur is not ideal

This is the underlying point on why I haven't voted to capture springlullaby.

As well as point on my hesitance to capture. Some PRs may mechanically need as many XP-gain opportunities as available to effectively serve town.

Capture is not a lynch, but some town players may feel the reward of using their powers to it's highest potential to outweigh the risk of claiming.

This is my final point on the ability of no capture. I accept rebuttals.

[Hectic]

Woah, I see a lot's happened. I'll try and read through everything later in the evening.

[Farkset]

I replied to Raya because it was Raya pointing out that your 848 was town, while i think you could be able to fake it. It's not part of why i scumlean you, it's an opinion on whether or not that post was indicative of being town, so i asked Raya if he found your post tonally similar to Pine's. I think it isn't but that doesn't make you scum.

What's in good faith from springlullaby?

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

Ame,

Lady

(1) What

is

your read on Spring?

I originally suspected her, mafia with either Hectic or momo for what I pointed out in 282.

I continually felt conflicted with her, since her insistence on deeming others as scum so loudly may be to block out the belying noise of scum itself.

Yet, I've grown to unsubscribe from the reasons other suspect her. I townlean her, she wears no veil to hide, and she asserts her views confidently with an option to compromise that doesn't alter her viewpoints. I think if she were mafia, she has placed herself in a disadvantageous and risky position. I have little desire to reconsider now.

848 was to survey her in a different manner than I did before, and I drew greater solidity in the read for doing so.

(2) What are your thoughts on Raya? In particular, I'm curious what you think about her read on you and on Pine as presented in 854.

In a game where scum have incentive to doubt others at any possible angle, Raya focusing on forging townreads is a grand strategy... and a town one.

For 854, she reads me correctly.

The nuance she followed up with in 874 for Pine and I, are hard to falsify with a scum mindset. She had ample opportunity to subtly shift the narrative against either two of us, as well as springlullaby and Ginngie, but did not.

(3) I don't think momo ever responded to your 282 or did he? If not, how come you haven't followed up on it? If so, what did you get (or intend to) get out of it?

He has not followed-up, to my belief.

I have no reason to follow-up until he has. I still suspect him.

I want his reply to that post - however irrelevant it may be now - to see how he rationalizes Hectic's and springlullaby's reads and approach. He voiced confidence in his capture vote, and I wanted to see if his rationale aligned with such.

(4) My spidey senses are going off about the quest. Please join me? I don't have a logical reason or anything, it's just intuition.

You mean, I remove myself from the Quest?

You voice a fear I've contained for days now. But I must have your confirmation, if we are both to Not Quest.

[Lady Chloe]

Farkran,

I replied to Raya because it was Raya pointing out that your 848 was town, while i think you could be able to fake it. It's not part of why i scumlean you, it's an opinion on whether or not that post was indicative of being town, so i asked Raya if he found your post tonally similar to Pine's. I think it isn't but that doesn't make you scum.

What's in good faith from springlullaby?

-Farkran

Your stance bewilders me.

You have yet to voice why I am independently scum for springlullaby, yet you've spoke of this read originally as if it had all to do with my connection to springlullaby.

Someone you could believe is town stated that I were town, but you think the reason to townread me on such is misled. But it is not part of your scumlean on me? Nor is it scum-indicative on my part?

How you view me is non-committal, Farkran.

As for springlullaby, I believe she takes to me in good faith since her reads are committed stances and this is consistent with her approach to the game.

[Farkset]

Also, for the record, i went back to re-examine chloe after posting 904, and found out that Ame's scumcase is definitely tunnelvisioned, and based on personality frictions/omgus rather than genuine thoughts. This is 100% coming from a

conclusion before evidence

process, and contrary to popular belief i think this most often comes from town, not scum. The process of getting upset to someone scumreading you and confbiasing while reading their posts is a consequence of not knowing people's alignments - you do not get upset if their read on you is correct, rather you disengage or deflect the accusations elsewhere to stay away from the spotlight.

This does not apply to every scum player out there. In fact, i never back off from 1v1s as either alignment and can produce tunneled/backward reasoning as scum too, but that's what i want to verify about Ame's scumrange by checking her scumgames.

I wish i could have spoilertagged the quotes but unfortunately nested spoilers will break the bbcode.

The following are examples of how Ame easily overlooked similar behavior from Chloe whereas using the same evidence category to call me scum:

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

COMPARE THE ABOVE VS THE BELOW

You have a lovely brain, Ame.

My main fear is we will not have the same option with Disable Strongman, again. A crucial town PR getting sabotaged in the Quest, another.

Leaving the possibility of the two outcomes above makes it hard to Quest and vote Neighborizer in good conscience.

Say, the two above outcomes occur, how may town best approach the game?

VOTE: Disable Strongman

Spoiler: Vote Count

Unofficial VC

[Capture] Flight of the Conchords (4)- Raya36, Lady Chloe*, Farkset, Ame
[Capture] springlullaby (4)- momo, Pine, Not Known 15, Hectic
[Capture] Lady Chloe (1)- mastina
[Capture] Hectic (1)- springlullaby
[End Day] (1) - Flight of the Conchords

Not voting (2)- Pink Ball, Ginngie

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-20 13:00:00)

Public Mechanic Vote

Disable Strongman (8)- Farkset, springlullaby, Raya36, Pine, Not Known 15, mastina, Ginngie, Ame
Neighborizer (3)- momo, Flight of the Conchords, Hectic
Train Cop (0)

Not voting (2)- Pink Ball, Lady Chloe*

I'm not sure whether or not Lady Chloe's unvote counts toward the capture or the mechanic.

@mod

what should we use to unvote?

Apologies for the confusion, the unvote was on FotC.

I clarify this now as I skim, since I am quite busy today.

Ame,

I acknowledge your claim, and I follow your train of thought on the capture, as I do with others who want to capture but am not quite convinced.

I want to strengthen my reads a bit more before I speak of them so openly.

Who am I to vote for, if not to avoid capturing?

[Farkset]

^ from Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

There is one fear I have with you, Farkran, and it is that I am reading you too literally.

If you are not getting the results you desire from this thread as we speak, then it may be a point of reassessment. I don't mean your read on me.

p-edit

I am having trouble concluding who you speak about in the first paragraph, and how you connect the quoted posts to your assessment.

[Lady Chloe]

Hectic,

I am true about my original statement. I do not know who you hinted that I was.

Will we continue our interactive discussion?

[Farkset]

Farkran,

I replied to Raya because it was Raya pointing out that your 848 was town, while i think you could be able to fake it. It's not part of why i scumlean you, it's an opinion on whether or not that post was indicative of being town, so i asked Raya if he found your post tonally similar to Pine's. I think it isn't but that doesn't make you scum.

What's in good faith from springlullaby?

-Farkran

Your stance bewilders me.

You have yet to voice why I am independently scum for springlullaby, yet you've spoke of this read originally as if it had all to do with my connection to springlullaby.

Someone you could believe is town stated that I were town, but you think the reason to townread me on such is misled. But it is not part of your scumlean on me? Nor is it scum-indicative on my part?

How you view me is non-committal, Farkran.

As for springlullaby, I believe she takes to me in good faith since her reads are committed stances and this is consistent with her approach to the game.

Answering to the bolded, since it is the main point of your objection:

No, that specific post does not make you scum. But it also doesn't make you town - in my opinion. I asked Raya what was the difference between your post and Pine's.

Why would you think that post in particular would make anyone read you as town, or scum? This is an interesting question tbh, i'd like to hear why you would think that i should scumread you based on that. Why would a player who scumleans you find scumminess in every single one of your posts?

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

Farkran,

Farkran,

I replied to Raya because it was Raya pointing out that your 848 was town, while i think you could be able to fake it. It's not part of why i scumlean you, it's an opinion on whether or not that post was indicative of being town, so i asked Raya if he found your post tonally similar to Pine's. I think it isn't but that doesn't make you scum.

What's in good faith from springlullaby?

-Farkran

Your stance bewilders me.

You have yet to voice why I am independently scum for springlullaby, yet you've spoke of this read originally as if it had all to do with my connection to springlullaby.

Someone you could believe is town stated that I were town, but you think the reason to townread me on such is misled. But it is not part of your scumlean on me? Nor is it scum-indicative on my part?

How you view me is non-committal, Farkran.

As for springlullaby, I believe she takes to me in good faith since her reads are committed stances and this is consistent with her approach to the game.

Answering to the bolded, since it is the main point of your objection:

No, that specific post does not make you scum. But it also doesn't make you town - in my opinion. I asked Raya what was the difference between your post and Pine's.

Why would you think that post in particular would make anyone read you as town, or scum?

You do not specify how the post impacts your read on me. Your focus seemed more on another's input. Let me know if I overlooked a follow-up that engaged your opinion beyond "she could be faking this."

This is an interesting question tbh, i'd like to hear why you would think that i should scumread you based on that. Why would a player who scumleans you find scumminess in every single one of your posts?

-Farkran

Not at all did I imply that you find scumminess in all your posts.

I am trying to understand your perspective, and you are failing me in helping me see.

[Lady Chloe]

Not at all did I imply that you find scumminess in all

my

posts.

My, I misspoke. I dislike Quote conversations.

[Lady Chloe]

This conversation displeases me.

I must refine my reads, voice them, assess Leader possibilities and reassess whether or not I Quest provided council from my townreads.

[Lady Chloe]

This conversation displeases me.

I must refine my reads, voice them, assess Leader possibilities and reassess whether or not I Quest provided council from my townreads.

[Lady Chloe]

Farkran,

See what occurs when I am displeased?

My psyche is split between two dimensions that impact both at once.

I must assassinate my clone to retain sanity. Good morning to you.

[Farkset]

I am having trouble concluding who you speak about in the first paragraph, and how you connect the quoted posts to your assessment.

Do you think that your apologies in post [452[/post] were necessary? Or at least, as necessary/unnecessary as my apologies in post 818?

Do you think that complimenting Ame's Brain (353), or asking her questions about how you should behave as town (last lines of 353 and 781), were necessary or in any way indicative of you being part of a particular alignment?

The questions are rhetorical of course - none of that evidence points to town or scum for you, and it -correctly- wasn't used in a scumcase against you. However, they have been used as a scumcase against me, and that has much more to do with Ame being upset than indicative of a specific alignment. Like, she is clearly displaying an attempt to sort me, but she is combing the thread only to find evidence to support a specific result, which is scum!Farkset, rather than reading and deducing or comparing said evidence to my previous meta or other players, because her analysis stops immediately as soon as she finds something adequate to support her theory.

It's not a terrible push, because it can be part of the town mindset and desire to be correct, find scum, the hope that your teammates aren't so bad and wrong as to call you scum when you know you aren't. Can it be faked? absolutely, but it requires large amounts of effort and willpower to maintain it consistent. Hence why i want to compare her to her past scumgames.

-Farkran

pedit: like, i'm sorry that the conversation displeases you. I don't know what to do about that. There are 3 scum in this game, i think you are plausibly one of them. This is no offense to your persona or playstyle, and i wonder why you would think i am displeasing you. Where did i display a distaste of your behavior as a person, rather than a scumlean of your play? Disagreement is not distaste, i would think?

Also, my point about your post 848 is exactly that it does

not

impact my opinion on your alignment, and i asked Raya why he would think it should impact his own. It has little to do with you, rather it has to do with Raya.

[Lady Chloe]

None of this was ever personal, Farkran. I don't know where you gathered this impression.

Yes, scum may fake 848, but my post in 901 veiled a solving utility, and you entertained the reality of me being scum more than one where I was sorting; but you did not commit to a viewpoint. That's my grievance with your approach to this slot.

My speech to Ame is related to my agreement with her. I had no prediction or expectation on how she would reply because I was not concerned with it.

Supposing by your final point that your post was directed more to understanding Raya, I will hold my tongue. Perhaps I misread you here.

I must eat breakfast now, I have more to think on.

[Lady Chloe]

For transparency, 916 was my attempt at humor. 914 and 915 were unintentional double posts.

[Farkset]

Well then - i got that impression from your comments about distaste and displeasure when talking to me, glad to hear we aren't going to cross a line here. It was never my intention.

Have a nice breakfast.

-Farkran

[springlullaby]

<Your daily FARKSCUM interlude>

In a game where scum have incentive to doubt others at any possible angle

Very good point.++

If you read Farkset. I mean

really

read it *cougPinecough* you'll see that you'll get a vague ok impression at first, because the slot speaks a lot.
BUT if you filter for what is said, the net total of about all their posts repeat a same single message: "everyone can be suspicious".
He has up until now, even on me who is "50/50", provided exactly zero read.

</Your daily FARKSCUM interlude>

Also,

GIINGIE GET BACK IN HERE

[Ginngie]

I refuse to put in effort when you're a live. You're a fucking headache and I'm not going to get drowned out by 20 posts a day spam.

[Ginngie]

Im keeping up with what I can and I'm solving bits and pieces but the game is already 100 fucking posts a day and when i get aggressive I post more than everyone here combined. I'm not going to shit up the thread. There are times where not saying anything and letting others talk actually helps.

The most important thing I can do right now is stay alive for ~reasons~ D2

[Farkset]

Two pages over 24h isn't much in 13p game, especially in day 1. Mini normal that you are currently hosting has got 3 pages in the same period of time. I don't buy this excuse.
~ker