Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[LuckyLuciano]

@the first part directed to me.

I don't think scum would out right show that they are in contact. So I won't be able to point that out without assuming too much and going quite deep with wifom. All i have was my initial gut about the votes and posts that were there at the time.

@3b, can you explain how you simultaneously believe that scum would no out right show that they are in contact, and that Monkey and I opening up the game with a shit flinging escapade is SvS?

[LuckyLuciano]

Lucky does not look good under pressure. Does anyone feel like he's town?

Not me

I don't know if I'm tunnelling or not, but he says he's got no reason to change his votes — yet he scumreads InWho22 and doesn't vote him.
This is the kind of shit I tried to pull off as scum in my last game with Holden.

It's definitely tunneling.

@Everyone but Monkey, am I the only one that, when going through Monkey's ISO, gets the feeling that he's constantly making posts prompting other people to scumread me without hard pushing me? It doesn't really feel like he's trying to scumhunt me, rather that he's found someone he wants to lynch and he wants other people to make the argument.

[LuckyLuciano]

Lucky does not look good under pressure. Does anyone feel like he's town?
I don't know if I'm tunnelling or not, but he says he's got no reason to change his votes — yet he scumreads InWho22 and doesn't vote him.
This is the kind of shit I tried to pull off as scum in my last game with Holden.

the InWho22 Scumread doesn't bother me. He finds it scummy, but I don't see anywhere where he pushes it into a bigger read. More importantly, It seems has more faith in his scumread on you than on InWho. That's what was off about you last game we played. Hiraki was your stronger read, yet you were voting Datisi while finding more reasons to scum read Hiraki. Here, he just mentions it in response to a question and hasn't explicit push them like you did that game on Datisi.

My issues are more tonal. It seems that he is a more factual player in the sense he likes going off of clear fallacies and the such. Day 1 is not that. So I can understand if I take that at face value that he finds day 1 terrible to play. There is nothing wrong with preferring that playstyle. The threat to lurk until day 2 and complaining about everyone demanding final reads is the issue. Im working in my mind right now if it was an intentional misrep (as he knows day 1 is more speculative) by scum to look like frustrated townie, or he is actually a frustrated townie.

I like the first part about this tone. He directly addressed Monkey's scumread without making assumptions about either Monkey's alignment or mine. I think it's pretty town to see a flaw in somebody's logic, and to simply correct them without an ulterior motive. It shows that he's taking the time to make sure other people see the game clearly.

[LuckyLuciano]

Not much, since most players didn't actually react to it.

So what do you think about post #36?

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

I disagree here. Town can townread - scumread someone with many reasons, with or without agreement the other, regardless their alignment. So, do you scumream Who22 here? What is the reason? In your PoV, have you thought about Kirari as mafia and you have agreement with her?

I do like the later half of this post for trying to get a firm stance from LL on inwho

I like Holden liking the second half of Yooh's post more than I like the second half of Yooh's post.

[LuckyLuciano]

the InWho22 Scumread doesn't bother me. He finds it scummy, but I don't see anywhere where he pushes it into a bigger read. More importantly, It seems has more faith in his scumread on you than on InWho.

Holden, that's not what he says.

See here:

@Yooh, my only reason to suspect Monkey is his concern with me putting Holden at L-2 yet leaving his vote there. I don't think his vote on me later is AI. I think it's bad town play if he is town, which gave me an opportunity to end RVS and provide a platform for meaningful interactions.

My push on him was more for reactions from others than from him.

Yeah, it's pretty clear we're not on the same page. I had a reason to scumread you in 12 and the subsequent push was unrelated and for reactions. Although it's weird upon rereading that any of us are calling it a push, and it was really just a critique of your play on a more theoretical level that people could react to. I'm glad I'm rereading the game though, because now I remember that you are scummy af for 12.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: InWho22

Half a prod dodge because it's clear that this day is being driven by tunneling and I don't want to be a part of it. Half because 3 players have been given a free pass to do nothing because this day is being driven by tunneling. Cya guys again in another 24 hours, or day two.

What a chad.

[LuckyLuciano]

If anything, it's more gut. But he drops it, stops pushing me, and proceeds to agree with Kirari on her scumread.

It doesn't follow that he's frustrated either. He claims he's used to being seen as scummy and he uses this to gain more insight. Here, he just wants to disappear from the discussion.

I justified that my actions were in my town range. I'm fine being viewed as scummy, I'm used to it. I don't try to prove that I'm innocent, I just make sure people are aware it's possible. If I'm town, I'd rather be in the middle of people's readlists than locktown because mafia has to eventually push town, and if I'm not locktown then they can push me, and since I know I'm town I gain more insight from that than other players can. Savvy?

Scum who made an early whammy by trying hard, and later got told by his partner to lie low?
You see why this bothers me, right?

Ok I see your point with 66.

I agree. No way Lucky got lost in the sauce. Let's lynch that scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

Sorry for the inactivity yesterday, it was a danish holiday.

I'm going to have to stop you right here, there's a holiday for eating danishes?

Also, this is my first game, so take this more as stream of consciousness than thought-out ideas until I get a grip on the game.
My first thought reading through was that: wow, does LL explain a lot with "meta". Looking at his posts, over a quarter of them have been about his meta, although having said that his town/scum meta is roughly the same. Why would he keep explaining things with meta if he openly acknowledges that it makes no difference? Seems counterproductive.

People don't understand the point so I'll just hard agree.

Because I see it as scummy also, and I know I'm town, therefore I understand why town might see it as scummy? This day one is going to be insufferable, isn't it?

Yeah, I guess day one is going to be insufferable if you don't want to explain your views.

Spicy.

I don't understand why I'm not allowed to have gut pings day one and everything has to be a final read, but this day phase illustrates everything I hate about day one so I'm probably going to mostly peace out until day two.

Denying town the ability to interact with you for the rest of day one is just pretty counterproductive too.
So far, I don't feel like LL is certain scum but I definitely can't place him as town either, based on his anti-town behavior.

My only real reaction to this post, do you believe anti-town = scum? If not, do you think that town is more likely to do things that appear as anti-town, or scum?

[LuckyLuciano]

To be fair, I also follow my gut.

Can you answer my post #84, please?

I think that it is harder for scum to have valid points than town, therefore I think making valid points deserves small town cred. The inverse is not true. Players making invalid points aren't scummier in my eyes.

Isn't thinking critically more difficult than superficially? Why should making the easy points get more Town cred than the harder ones?

Incident #1 of Alo agreeing with me and proceeding to state that I conclude the opposite of what my post clearly states.

[LuckyLuciano]

You literally just agreed with me, and then concluded the opposite.

This guy is fast.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: InWho22

Half a prod dodge because it's clear that this day is being driven by tunneling and I don't want to be a part of it. Half because 3 players have been given a free pass to do nothing because this day is being driven by tunneling. Cya guys again in another 24 hours, or day two.

This is 100% false.

So you think 3 people were given passes, yet you are just going to go bugger off? Not push them, question them, nothing? Not only that, but the fact too that this day phase is 10 days long at the most?

Who do you think is given a free pass?

I do not like the feeling of beating people with wooden sticks for information. Reminds me too much of childhood

Same.

[Kirari Momobami]

Are you ready to be masons now lucky? :3

[LuckyLuciano]

To be fair, I also follow my gut.

Can you answer my post #84, please?

I think that it is harder for scum to have valid points than town, therefore I think making valid points deserves small town cred. The inverse is not true. Players making invalid points aren't scummier in my eyes.

Also, can you tell us the reason why you town read Holden?

I think town is more likely to miss the fact that their RVS vote was never counted. Their vote was meaningless and without intention, it's not something they really care about. Playing as scum, I think by design, requires more deliberate play. I don't think mafia doesn't realize their vote isn't being counted.

If playing scum means you're paying more attention to detail, why would you not realize your vote isn't being counted? Or am I misreading you?

Incident #2. I think that my posts are pretty clear, and I think Alo's other games indicate he's clearly able to understand these posts. I feel that the second part of the post isn't natural. I think it's something you post when you are intentionally misreading someone. I think if you aren't sure that you understand somebody, you probably lead off your post by indicating that you are confused.

[LuckyLuciano]

Are you ready to be masons now lucky? :3

You broke my streak you sack of pickles.

[LuckyLuciano]

You literally just agreed with me, and then concluded the opposite.

I think you said that the easy points should get small Town cred. Or did you mean less Town cred?

Like, does anyone actually read this post and believe that his use of "small" and "less" isn't a deliberate attempt to create confusion?

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: InWho22

Half a prod dodge because it's clear that this day is being driven by tunneling and I don't want to be a part of it. Half because 3 players have been given a free pass to do nothing because this day is being driven by tunneling. Cya guys again in another 24 hours, or day two.

This is 100% false.

So you think 3 people were given passes, yet you are just going to go bugger off? Not push them, question them, nothing? Not only that, but the fact too that this day phase is 10 days long at the most?

Who do you think is given a free pass?

I do not like the feeling of beating people with wooden sticks for information. Reminds me too much of childhood

At no point have I actually disengaged with the game. I've simply ignored you and Monkey. Look back at how I answer questions worth answering even after "peacing out". I'm making the argument that scumhunting day one typically leads to incorrect reads being driving points during LYLO, because scum can only be caught day one via unforced errors. Look at how people are pushing me. I know I'm town. I also know that scum is unlikely to jump out the gate and try to push the game forward into a state where it can be productive,

because I'm not dumb

. Somehow playing the game has been construed as scummy, so I've chosen to limit my playing of the game until day 2, only popping in where relevant. Meanwhile at the time of that post, 3 players had 2 or less posts.

Saltyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Also, come on Lucky, you know you can't stay away from the thread for as long as you pretend you can

[LuckyLuciano]

Are you sure you meant to quote 76 Yooh?

I clicked on it expecting to see something but all I saw was SE responsibilities and remark about avis

Oh it is just SE duties. My bad.

I thought she just want to get "nice score" in there.

What do you mean by the bolded?

Honestly, same. It's sad that Yooh can be more confusing than the person who is trying to be confusing.

[LuckyLuciano]

[SE Hat]
Lucky, I get why being under pressure is hard. Unfortunately, being suspect #1 is just part of the game. We all get our turns. A central wagon on D1 will give us all the information we need later on for interactions and reactions.

If you're town, you also get to jump at the people who feel scummiest for being at your wagon. During at this town, you might start town-telling, and you might convince the players to leave you alone for someone better. (or leave a legacy of texts for later days).
If you're town PR, you will be forced to claim at L-1 — and that's avoidable.
If you're scum, this is an opportunity to sniff out PRs and set-up future lynches by interacting with the town.

Inactivity is substandard play, no matter your alignment.
[/SEhat]

However, if you're going to handle this by prod-dodging and waiting for the next day, there won't be a next day. You

will

be flashlynched. I will personally lead your flashlynching. Why? Because you're still my number one suspect, and the game will still be in stand-still without you playing the game with us. It's not like I'll just throw my hands up in the air and say "well then".

Bro, stop. You are making it too obvious that you care less about scumhunting and more about lynching me because I'm the easy lynch.

[LuckyLuciano]

EBWOP: During this, you might start town-telling

We both know that nothing I do is going to get you to townread me. Your boner is too hard.

[LuckyLuciano]

Follow-up, what you really want is things you can scumpaint.

[LuckyLuciano]

1) Almost, but not quite. I don't think incorrect reads (the easier ones) deserve any town cred at all. I am saying they don't merit scum cred. Being wrong is null.

2) Yes, because their vote was deliberate and therefore is worthy of occupying some portion of their headspace.

Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure I understood your meaning.

This is probably a lie.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

[SE Hat]
Lucky, I get why being under pressure is hard. Unfortunately, being suspect #1 is just part of the game. We all get our turns. A central wagon on D1 will give us all the information we need later on for interactions and reactions.

If you're town, you also get to jump at the people who feel scummiest for being at your wagon. During at this town, you might start town-telling, and you might convince the players to leave you alone for someone better. (or leave a legacy of texts for later days).
If you're town PR, you will be forced to claim at L-1 — and that's avoidable.
If you're scum, this is an opportunity to sniff out PRs and set-up future lynches by interacting with the town.

Inactivity is substandard play, no matter your alignment.
[/SEhat]

However, if you're going to handle this by prod-dodging and waiting for the next day, there won't be a next day. You

will

be flashlynched. I will personally lead your flashlynching. Why? Because you're still my number one suspect, and the game will still be in stand-still without you playing the game with us. It's not like I'll just throw my hands up in the air and say "well then".

I don't think you understand my angle here. I'm not

really

prod dodging, nor have I been at any point. I'm hard ignoring you because it's likely you are town tunneling town. I don't believe day one is low-value by nature. I think it becomes low value because town think they can solve the game day one and hard-tunnel for non-reasons, and scum gets to do nothing day one or prod the bad town players into a mislynch.

When you start making points worth addressing, I'll address them.

This man is a whole jalapeno.

[LuckyLuciano]

~~~~~~

Your attempts to take page tops remind me of the zzz over people's heads when they are bored

[LuckyLuciano]

I want one.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: InWho22

Half a prod dodge because it's clear that this day is being driven by tunneling and I don't want to be a part of it. Half because 3 players have been given a free pass to do nothing because this day is being driven by tunneling. Cya guys again in another 24 hours, or day two.

Is there a reason you waited to vote InWho until Humane pushed you?

Lol.