Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[pisskop]

It was unpossible, but once he got to his special rules it became much more ununpossible

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm really not liking this line of thought from Elsa Jay. This game is 16:5. We know that. It's mod-confirmed fact. This implies that there is one scum team and I agree with pk when he says at this point, it's almost irrelevant if there's a traitor. EJ is doing setup analysis, trying to appear as if he is contributing to town but it's through a series of posts that don't actually give town meaningful information. When one of the lines in the mod post is "confirmed 16 vs 5" there's no need to get into all of this.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I really like this as well as Momo’s posting in general.

[Drixx]

Hello all you lovely people. So I'm in a hood, and our dear mod declined to give us a roster of who is in there.

I find it unusual that nobody has commented on this post.

I'm in a daychat PT too. There are at least 3 other players in it.

There are 21 players total, 16 town and 5 same-side scum.

Let's make some assumptions.

There are two neighborhoods or more, each with at least 4 players.

Nobody picked up on Drixx's post, because they don't want to out themselves as in his Private Topic or in a PT at all. If people weren't in a hood, they would be more interested in Drixx who claimed he was in one. Nothing in the setup said anything about PTs, except that daychat is active for all of them. So we have to assume everyone is in one.

Now what bothers me is the player count. Why 21 players and not 20? With 20 players, you can have 4-player or 5-player PTs with an even distribution.

21 can only be divided by 7. So are there 3 PTs, with 7 players each? If so, in my PT, 3 players have stayed on the sidelines so far, with 4 including myself announcing our presence, and in another PT, we know of Drixx.

What are possible distributions of scum in the PTs in 3 7-player PTs? 2-2-1, 2-3-0, or 5-0-0. The first one is the most likely (60%), the second one unlikely (30%), and the third option highly improbable (10%).

Therefore, if my assumption is correct that we're all in a PT, and that we all have scum in our PT, it's not safe to post our insights in the PTs as scum have daytalk and can share information, keeping the town out of the loop on content and slowing down scumhunting.

There's another possibility, however:

There could be a masons.

In this case, 21 players could break down like this:
3 masons in their hood
18 players remaining, 3 hoods with 6 players each

So here's what I'm thinking:
1) It's not safe to massclaim our PTs
2) It's safe for someone to claim not to be in a PT, although they might be lying about it and we don't have the means to verify.
3) If you're in a PT, you should announce your presence to the PT participants. Otherwise, you are damaging town cohesion and would therefore most likely be scum.
4) As the game progresses, if we clean out 2 scum from a single PT, it's probable that the remaining are town.

What about membership in multiple? What do you think of the possibility of one being an unknown masonry? (Do we throw that out entirely because of the flavor? Jigsaw is always watching in the films right? I only saw the first one).

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I VOTE: Morning Tweet.

Not liking this by momo at all. Stream of consciousness posts are so common in forum mafia as to be ubiquitous. I don't know how anyone could possibly type that "reasoning" with a straight face.

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I .

I dig it VOTE: Morning Tweet

And then Battle Mage comes riding in here with this awful follow on. That deserves a vote imo:

VOTE: Battle Mage

I carefully yet bravely head through the door.

As you pass through the doorway, your worst fears are confirmed. You see Pine, momo, Morning Tweet, Elsa Jay, Gamma Emerald, VaultDweller, Vecna, Hectic, iDanyboy, GeorgeBailey, Drixx, davesaz, farside, Battle Mage, BBmolla, GuiltyLion, pisskop, Albert B. Rampage, Almost50, xtoxm, and Blake Belladonna, all inside at the edge of the room as well. The room is enormous and stretches off into the distance in a seeming labyrinth of bizarre machines, dripping pipes and rusting walls. Amidst the group, disturbing weapons lay about, including guns, knives, pipes, and other seemingly alien objects. As well, tools of investigation and healing can be seen.

It seems the madman who placed the tape intends to realize the game of Mafia in full. No longer will votes and posts make a difference. Now, you must all fight for your lives. A large timer lies above, slowly counting down. Another tape recorder lies at in front of you, unplayed. Do you play it?

I pick up a gun and try to shoot

Battle Mage

with it. If that doesn't do anything, I'll snag a tool of investigation in the follow on chaos erupting from my attempted kill shot.

Gamma Emerald
GeorgeBailey
GuiltyLion
momo
pisskop
Xtoxm
---
Elsa Jay
Almost50

For my own reference later.

Hi Hectic. Can you plz explain this partial ordered list? Just a sentence on each would be great. Don't just quote your later post at me because that list is different, and I want to know why you felt the need to post THIS one here in the thread, when if it was really for your own notes you could have put it in a PT or some other place for notes.

Gamma Emerald
GeorgeBailey
GuiltyLion
momo
pisskop
Xtoxm
---
Elsa Jay
Almost50

For my own reference later.

Great idea. This one is for my reference later...

Pine
momo
Morning Tweet
Elsa Jay
Gamma Emerald
VaultDweller
Vecna
Hectic
iDanyboy
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
davesaz
farside
Battle Mage
BBmolla
GuiltyLion
pisskop
Albert B. Rampage
Almost50
xtoxm
Blake Belladonna
Game Over

And here comes strike two from Battle Mage. An even worse blank ordered list, and done (again) as a response to someone else doing it first. This is really bad "monkey see/monkey do" play.

I'm in a PT with

Pine
momo - attack on the bat is so weird it's town, but depends on meta
Morning Tweet - maybe towny but might just be tone
Elsa Jay - awkward entrance, Bambi could be scum
Gamma Emerald - our savior and the protagonist of this story
VaultDweller
Vecna
iDanyboy - probably town
GeorgeBailey - GeorgeBailey
Drixx
davesaz - bit off
farside
Battle Mage - who knows with this guy
BBmolla
GuiltyLion - i will sheep GeorgeBailey
pisskop - natural and healthy
Albert B. Rampage - i reserve judgement for now
Almost50 - disliked joke response to my question, pointing out "crumb"
xtoxm - okay push on farside
Blake Belladonna - Hello.

To be very clear ... this is what I don't want you to point at. Explain the original list as asked Hectic. Thanks.

[Morning Tweet]

I pick up a gun and try to shoot

Battle Mage

with it. If that doesn't do anything, I'll snag a tool of investigation in the follow on chaos erupting from my attempted kill shot.

holy shit hahaha

VOTE: Battle Mage

[BBmolla]

ABR is probably scum for the setup spec

VOTE: ABR

Hot take. Why?

initial setup spec tends to come from scum in my experience

that's all I got

[Elsa Jay]

Huh. Usually that's just a play style thing IME. I know others have said that same thing though. Actually maybe you said it to ke before.

[BBmolla]

Why are wagoning battle mage?

[Battle Mage]

I don't know what to tell ya Drixx. I just copied and pasted the player list from the first page as a joke.

Hello all you lovely people. So I'm in a hood, and our dear mod declined to give us a roster of who is in there.

I find it unusual that nobody has commented on this post.

I'm in a daychat PT too. There are at least 3 other players in it.

There are 21 players total, 16 town and 5 same-side scum.

Let's make some assumptions.

There are two neighborhoods or more, each with at least 4 players.

Nobody picked up on Drixx's post, because they don't want to out themselves as in his Private Topic or in a PT at all. If people weren't in a hood, they would be more interested in Drixx who claimed he was in one. Nothing in the setup said anything about PTs, except that daychat is active for all of them. So we have to assume everyone is in one.

Now what bothers me is the player count. Why 21 players and not 20? With 20 players, you can have 4-player or 5-player PTs with an even distribution.

21 can only be divided by 7. So are there 3 PTs, with 7 players each? If so, in my PT, 3 players have stayed on the sidelines so far, with 4 including myself announcing our presence, and in another PT, we know of Drixx.

What are possible distributions of scum in the PTs in 3 7-player PTs? 2-2-1, 2-3-0, or 5-0-0. The first one is the most likely (60%), the second one unlikely (30%), and the third option highly improbable (10%).

Therefore, if my assumption is correct that we're all in a PT, and that we all have scum in our PT, it's not safe to post our insights in the PTs as scum have daytalk and can share information, keeping the town out of the loop on content and slowing down scumhunting.

There's another possibility, however:

There could be a masons.

In this case, 21 players could break down like this:
3 masons in their hood
18 players remaining, 3 hoods with 6 players each

So here's what I'm thinking:
1) It's not safe to massclaim our PTs
2) It's safe for someone to claim not to be in a PT, although they might be lying about it and we don't have the means to verify.
3) If you're in a PT, you should announce your presence to the PT participants. Otherwise, you are damaging town cohesion and would therefore most likely be scum.
4) As the game progresses, if we clean out 2 scum from a single PT, it's probable that the remaining are town.

What about membership in multiple? What do you think of the possibility of one being an unknown masonry? (Do we throw that out entirely because of the flavor? Jigsaw is always watching in the films right? I only saw the first one).

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I VOTE: Morning Tweet.

Not liking this by momo at all. Stream of consciousness posts are so common in forum mafia as to be ubiquitous. I don't know how anyone could possibly type that "reasoning" with a straight face.

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I .

I dig it VOTE: Morning Tweet

And then Battle Mage comes riding in here with this awful follow on. That deserves a vote imo:

VOTE: Battle Mage

I carefully yet bravely head through the door.

As you pass through the doorway, your worst fears are confirmed. You see Pine, momo, Morning Tweet, Elsa Jay, Gamma Emerald, VaultDweller, Vecna, Hectic, iDanyboy, GeorgeBailey, Drixx, davesaz, farside, Battle Mage, BBmolla, GuiltyLion, pisskop, Albert B. Rampage, Almost50, xtoxm, and Blake Belladonna, all inside at the edge of the room as well. The room is enormous and stretches off into the distance in a seeming labyrinth of bizarre machines, dripping pipes and rusting walls. Amidst the group, disturbing weapons lay about, including guns, knives, pipes, and other seemingly alien objects. As well, tools of investigation and healing can be seen.

It seems the madman who placed the tape intends to realize the game of Mafia in full. No longer will votes and posts make a difference. Now, you must all fight for your lives. A large timer lies above, slowly counting down. Another tape recorder lies at in front of you, unplayed. Do you play it?

I pick up a gun and try to shoot

Battle Mage

with it. If that doesn't do anything, I'll snag a tool of investigation in the follow on chaos erupting from my attempted kill shot.

Gamma Emerald
GeorgeBailey
GuiltyLion
momo
pisskop
Xtoxm
---
Elsa Jay
Almost50

For my own reference later.

Hi Hectic. Can you plz explain this partial ordered list? Just a sentence on each would be great. Don't just quote your later post at me because that list is different, and I want to know why you felt the need to post THIS one here in the thread, when if it was really for your own notes you could have put it in a PT or some other place for notes.

Gamma Emerald
GeorgeBailey
GuiltyLion
momo
pisskop
Xtoxm
---
Elsa Jay
Almost50

For my own reference later.

Great idea. This one is for my reference later...

Pine
momo
Morning Tweet
Elsa Jay
Gamma Emerald
VaultDweller
Vecna
Hectic
iDanyboy
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
davesaz
farside
Battle Mage
BBmolla
GuiltyLion
pisskop
Albert B. Rampage
Almost50
xtoxm
Blake Belladonna
Game Over

And here comes strike two from Battle Mage. An even worse blank ordered list, and done (again) as a response to someone else doing it first. This is really bad "monkey see/monkey do" play.

I'm in a PT with

Pine
momo - attack on the bat is so weird it's town, but depends on meta
Morning Tweet - maybe towny but might just be tone
Elsa Jay - awkward entrance, Bambi could be scum
Gamma Emerald - our savior and the protagonist of this story
VaultDweller
Vecna
iDanyboy - probably town
GeorgeBailey - GeorgeBailey
Drixx
davesaz - bit off
farside
Battle Mage - who knows with this guy
BBmolla
GuiltyLion - i will sheep GeorgeBailey
pisskop - natural and healthy
Albert B. Rampage - i reserve judgement for now
Almost50 - disliked joke response to my question, pointing out "crumb"
xtoxm - okay push on farside
Blake Belladonna - Hello.

To be very clear ... this is what I don't want you to point at. Explain the original list as asked Hectic. Thanks.

[Battle Mage]

Why are wagoning battle mage?

I can explain the drixx one - it's cause he thought I posted a legit reads list with myself ranked somewhere in the middle.

[GuiltyLion]

I am feeling Battle Mage, GeorgeBailey, pisskop, momo, BBMolla as some solid D1 townreads.

I especially like BM's vote on DanyBoy and I want to add another

VOTE: iDanyBoy

very little engagement from him and I agree 223 is a bizarre post, the assumption that scum fake claims are flavor linked to the PTs feels angle-shooty in a way that I don't think is likely to come from town. It feels more likely to be an excuse to push a mislynch later - 'they claimed [x] role and they're not in [y] hood' - and less like something DanyBoy genuinely believes is useful in finding scum.

I'm also not in any hoods so if any of you all have a recruit or something get me in on some neighborhood action cause I wanna be in there

[GuiltyLion]

I could also lynch Elsa though I want a danyBoy wagon more right now

I'm still gut scumreading Gamma too

[Blake Belladonna]

Massclaiming early game is never done for a good reason.

In this case I feel like there's obvious modfuckery going on.

I'd prefer we didnt talk about the hoods at all D1, and just hunted for scum.

I agree with this.

I appreciate why we are having this discussion and the paranoia that comes from having private information, but the simple fact is that there is simply no utility to a neighborhood if we are committing to outing everything that is being said within a neighborhood. There are legitimate reasons why a neighborhood is better than the public thread for saying certain things, and within them lies a potential tool for reducing the process of elimination for which neighborhoods currently have scum within them. The mafia team's greatest asset is that they have more information than the town does, but town can leverage that into forcing the scumteam to show that to the town. Removing that option, to me, is a strange one.

There is little to gain from this for right now. A better course of action is to let it be and if something interesting happens that somebody feels should be in the main thread, then they will post it here. There is no need for ambassadors or to analyze the hoods at this time.

---

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

He had the most awkward entrance to the game.

[farside]

Gamma why do I always scumread you

Town

Hectic's posts bug me beyond words and not in a scumhunting way

Pisskop town

ABR is probably scum for the setup spec

VOTE: ABR

Hectic stop being useless please

I'm in no PT btw

VOTE: GuiltyLion so we can get off the Almost wagon. He'll solve himself later.

Why did you make this terrible vote

Elsa was doing setup spec as well. I'm just wondering why ABR got dinged and no mention of elsa if it's a scum tell.

Why are wagoning battle mage?

I can explain the drixx one - it's cause he thought I posted a legit reads list with myself ranked somewhere in the middle.

He's also voting for you for following Mono's case on Tweet.


I'm doing something different and making notes on a pad with this game. I thought I might get lost with 21 players and some players get forgotten as a game goes on, into lurker territory.

I'm going to go with my gut scum read since he hasn't done much so far to change my view with the post he has made and no look like trying to figure anyone out.

VOTE: davesaz

[Xtoxm]

I'll echo Drixx point that scum may be able to see the hoods without choosing/permission to post there, so be careful even if you townread your neighbors.
Other than that I don't care much for the hood talk.
I am not in any hoods.

[pisskop]

I'm doing something different and making notes on a pad with this game.

I used to make notes via Excel. Works well,and improved the quality of my content, but became a chore at some point. I look forward to seeing how this works for you!

[Battle Mage]

at this stage we may as well just claim who is in what hood. can designated hood champions please list the people they think are in their hoods and someone can keep a tally.

[Drixx]

at this stage we may as well just claim who is in what hood. can designated hood champions please list the people they think are in their hoods and someone can keep a tally.

Vetoed.

[Vecna]

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

[momo]

at this stage we may as well just claim who is in what hood. can designated hood champions please list the people they think are in their hoods and someone can keep a tally.

Vetoed.

I agree. Hood champions please list the NUMBER OF PEOPLE in your hood. This way, we can have informed discussion about the number of scum in each hood.

[momo]

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Ninja'd me here on my last post but this completely.

[momo]

Massclaiming early game is never done for a good reason.

In this case I feel like there's obvious modfuckery going on.

I'd prefer we didnt talk about the hoods at all D1, and just hunted for scum.

I agree with this.

I appreciate why we are having this discussion and the paranoia that comes from having private information, but the simple fact is that there is simply no utility to a neighborhood if we are committing to outing everything that is being said within a neighborhood. There are legitimate reasons why a neighborhood is better than the public thread for saying certain things, and within them lies a potential tool for reducing the process of elimination for which neighborhoods currently have scum within them. The mafia team's greatest asset is that they have more information than the town does, but town can leverage that into forcing the scumteam to show that to the town. Removing that option, to me, is a strange one.

There is little to gain from this for right now. A better course of action is to let it be and if something interesting happens that somebody feels should be in the main thread, then they will post it here. There is no need for ambassadors or to analyze the hoods at this time.

---

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

He had the most awkward entrance to the game.

I don't know if I would call Gamma's entrance to the game awkward. In fact, in my (admittedly outdated) experience with Gamma, I can't see him playing as casually as he is right now as scum. I have him as a decent townlean right now.

The one suspicious factor I can see with Gamma is that he has kept is vote on BM from RVS even as a wagon begins to build on BM.

@Gamma, is this an oversight are do you have a reason?
@Blake, did that factor into your vote on Gamma at all? Your reasoning was vague.

[Drixx]

Why are wagoning battle mage?

I can explain the drixx one - it's cause he thought I posted a legit reads list with myself ranked somewhere in the middle.

See it's interesting ... it's very difficult for scum to avoid taking swipes like this. Dishonest is dishonest though, and you got VOTED by me for doing something else. The fact that you want people to think differently is telling. It's like you want them to overlook the actual thing that made me vote you. You actually read Momo's #184 and then quoted it and decided it was

sound

reasoning to vote for someone.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Vecna gets scum points for trying to help momo sell that bullshit.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Ninja'd me here on my last post but this completely.

And oh look ... momo

ALSO

wants to perpetuate a lie.

[Drixx]

Cast a net, catch some fish.

[Drixx]

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

[momo]

I am feeling Battle Mage, GeorgeBailey, pisskop, momo, BBMolla as some solid D1 townreads.

I especially like BM's vote on DanyBoy and I want to add another

VOTE: iDanyBoy

very little engagement from him and I agree 223 is a bizarre post, the assumption that scum fake claims are flavor linked to the PTs feels angle-shooty in a way that I don't think is likely to come from town. It feels more likely to be an excuse to push a mislynch later - 'they claimed [x] role and they're not in [y] hood' - and less like something DanyBoy genuinely believes is useful in finding scum.

I'm also not in any hoods so if any of you all have a recruit or something get me in on some neighborhood action cause I wanna be in there

The interesting thing about 223 is that the logic involved would exonerate scum who are in hoods if they (using common sense) claim to be a part of said hood. If you view iDb to be scum, then this post almost confirms the existence of scum within at least one of the hoods. As you said, this logic would also further the policy lynch of those not in hoods such as yourself.

I want to know what Danyboy was thinking when he made this post. Not ready to lynch him just yet, but this is a good place to start our first major wagon. VOTE: iDanyboy