Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Persivul]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

[UnaBombaH]

Sorry I got the term from my co-worker. He tends to be older then everyone and he calls me kid. I just get the impression from your post that you are much younger then I am.

Like said, not offended.
I just find it funny how easily people get an impression from others, and it sticks and evolves independently.
I still have a lot of people calling me a "she" because of my nick, and apparently because I like to spam smileys.

[Drew-Sta]

You can lynch me today if you need. I’m happy to be a martyr if you can’t settle on another townie.

So you're that sure we couldn't lynch scum?

Not a serious question. Now that the lynch is AFAIC settled, everything from scum is wifom. But I thought the way he phrased that was interesting.

Writing this off is both shocking analysis and a clear and identifying statement that you're unable to consider a possibility you haven't set your mind on.

I guess why I’m saying that is it is possible he’s also lying.

Look, I’m going to die. That’s fine. But at least consider the possibility of two millers.

If he were "also lying," that would mean zero millers, not two.

This is foolish and poorly thought out.

Why don't you stop trying to summarize what I'm saying and let me speak for myself?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking reading that exchange. Drew's the one doing the gaslighting.

Explain why.

Drew-Sta (3)Persivul;mavsfan41;Knightmare491;

Drew is highly likely to be scum. He's highly likely to be the lynch. That means that everything coming from scum at this point is WIFOM. In my experience, that hurts town more than helps. We need more votes here.

I agree that scum will WIFOM here. About the smartest thing you've posted so far.

When I show up as town, what will be your first response in the game eg what will you look to do?

Scum claim.

Foolish response.

I still think that if there's a vig, he should definitely be the target tonight.

First, he's not going to be there tonight. A 2-miller setup is very unlikely, making him very likely to be scum.

Second, we don't even know that we have a vig.

Third, a vig should never shoot someone who's easily lynchable anyway.

I disagree with 3 completely. If players aren't sure and a player claims miller a vig shot on that player is the best thing for the town.

Drew-Sta (3)Persivul;mavsfan41;Knightmare491;

Drew is highly likely to be scum. He's highly likely to be the lynch. That means that everything coming from scum at this point is WIFOM. In my experience, that hurts town more than helps. We need more votes here.

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

On a completely unrelated note, Unabomb in no longer on the top of my scum list.
Salad, Persivul and Knight.

Still waiting for a few people to post more before finalizing my list.

Explain your comment on Una.

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Declaring yourself as town eh? So we should listen to you? Ridiculous.

And why were you on me before? Give me analysis. Stop throwing insults. You're playing foolishly. Do some proper analysis and explain yourself.

[farside]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

@drew: this may sound mean but as unabomb continues to post im starting to see him as more of a vi type.

[mavsfan41]

@Riabi: your 192 suggests lynching BOTH the claimed millers? Wtf? When Drew flips scum (aka he fake claimed miller) wouldn’t that basically pseudo confirm me as a miller? Lynching me next basically rids town of a mostly confirmed townie. By deciding to lynch me after Drew flips scum is implying it’s more likely that Drew and I are both scum fake claiming miller than the more likely scenario that there’s one miller in the game and I was assigned the role.

[mavsfan41]

This whole vig should target the miller is dumb right? Drew flipping scum would effectively give credibility to my miller CC and therefore you’d be killing what is more likely to be confirmed town. Let scum NK players who would be suspected town. Also, why aren’t more people voting Drew?
Here’s what’s going on:
1) Drew fake claimed miller (a role that will give a cop a guilty) as scum to cover a guilty investigation believing there wasn’t a miller in the game
2) I’m lying and am scum (vote me if you think this is the cases. My vote count at 0 should tell you that for people who have suggested I’m lying but haven’t voted me. Cowards.)
3) there’s two millers and an IC. (I want this to actually be the scenario cause that would be nuts)

Also, this whole vig theory was brought up by George Bailey as a half-baked reason for NOT voting Drew and suggesting the vig should take him out. I think there isn’t a vig and George Bailey wants a potential mislynch than a Drew lynch as his scum buddy OR as scum together one of them has a bulletproof role (maybe even Drew) so they believe a vig is in the game AND if he targets Drew, the kill won’t go through.

@George Bailey: your vote is on Saladman27. Say you get what you want and Saladman27 is lynched. And there is also a vig in the game. Who do you believe the vig should target during the night?

[Persivul]

Writing this off is both shocking analysis and a clear and identifying statement that you're unable to consider a possibility you haven't set your mind on.

I've considered it and dismissed it. Based on my experience with the normal queue, it's very unlikely that there would be two millers. Other people beat me to it, but I actually find a zero-miller scum gambit more likely than that. People do dumb shit to try to win scummies.

Why don't you stop trying to summarize what I'm saying and let me speak for myself?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking reading that exchange. Drew's the one doing the gaslighting.

Explain why.

Sure. He makes a judgment based on probabilities - two millers is low probability. That's fine, as most decisions by town in this game are judgments of probability. But, you rephrase it to imply that he's saying two millers is an impossibility, or that he refuses to consider the possibility. That's gaslighting.

[Persivul]

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

Can't argue with something that ambiguous. You do you.

[Not Known 15]

Saladman27 is being replaced.

[farside]

Saladman27 is being replaced.

Hmmmm

@manv: the discussion of the vig is if drew or you were not lynched day 1.
Frankly it will be that lynch more then likely. Drew has conceded his own lynch.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

Can't argue with something that ambiguous. You do you.

[PranaDevil]

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

[farside]

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

I don't see scum claiming that early with little pressure. To be fair I was scum reading Drew from the start too. His post to Tanner about George was a bit much. His complaint about the votes was hypocritical and bias to say the least. But with manvs claim he believed in it and he even talked about it here with in regards to wifom: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747814.
He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

[Riabi]

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

This was really all you needed to say. The rest of your argument is WIFOMy enough to be entirely pointless.

[PranaDevil]

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

I don't see scum claiming that early with little pressure. To be fair I was scum reading Drew from the start too. His post to Tanner about George was a bit much. His complaint about the votes was hypocritical and bias to say the least. But with manvs claim he believed in it and he even talked about it here with in regards to wifom: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747814.
He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

Interesting theory, and something I'd never considered, but it's definitely worthy of thinking about. I'm still not quite sure I buy a double miller set up though. Have you any thoughts on if we have two millers, or if one of the two is lying?

As for the interesting thing I spotted...

You can lynch me today if you need. I’m happy to be a martyr if you can’t settle on another townie.

So you're that sure we couldn't lynch scum?

^
Scumslip.

The only people who know, factually, whether Drew is scum or not are, in fact, the scum. This line feels very much like Persivul knows Drew is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

[farside]

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

This was really all you needed to say. The rest of your argument is WIFOMy enough to be entirely pointless.

I could call it playing over 13 years on MS instead if you want.
But I like my goofy hats more.

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

I don't see scum claiming that early with little pressure. To be fair I was scum reading Drew from the start too. His post to Tanner about George was a bit much. His complaint about the votes was hypocritical and bias to say the least. But with manvs claim he believed in it and he even talked about it here with in regards to wifom: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747814.
He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

Interesting theory, and something I'd never considered, but it's definitely worthy of thinking about. I'm still not quite sure I buy a double miller set up though. Have you any thoughts on if we have two millers, or if one of the two is lying?

As for the interesting thing I spotted...

You can lynch me today if you need. I’m happy to be a martyr if you can’t settle on another townie.

So you're that sure we couldn't lynch scum?

^
Scumslip.

The only people who know, factually, whether Drew is scum or not are, in fact, the scum. This line feels very much like Persivul knows Drew is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

Idk. I don't like the idea of 2 millers. I'm trying my best to remember when I was helping players with balance and game idea's for normal once upon a time ago.
I would like manvs to say whom else they have scum reads on besides drew.

[farside]

Before anyone ask about the date on this account.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... ile&u=8269
That was my old one. Lost access but hoping one of the higher ups on MS can help me get it back soon.

[Tanner]

How is that a scumslip?

[PranaDevil]

How is that a scumslip?

He's not saying "Drew is scum", he's saying "So we should lynch you instead of scum"

It reads very much like he knows Drew is town.

[Tanner]

...no?

Drew basically said "If you cannot settle on lynching another Townie, lynch me" (and implying he's Town)

To which the response was "are you that sure we couldn't lynch scum?" (asking if Drew is very certain today's lynch would be that of a Townie, even if Drew himself isn't lynched)

How the hell do you get "we should lynch you instead of scum" there?

[Riabi]

Yeah, it's a bit of a weirdly worded post, in my mind, but, I don't think it's a scum slip.

[mavsfan41]

There’s only one way to find out........ let’s lynch Drew. When he flips scum, tomorrow y’all can foolishly debate whether I’m an actual miller or if I fake claimed miller (if you think this is actually the case, please please please vote me now)... or just wake up tomorrow to see my flip when the vig kills me for..... reasons?

[Persivul]

Scumslip.

Reread it. Slowly.

[Persivul]

...no?

Drew basically said "If you cannot settle on lynching another Townie, lynch me" (and implying he's Town)

To which the response was "are you that sure we couldn't lynch scum?" (asking if Drew is very certain today's lynch would be that of a Townie, even if Drew himself isn't lynched)

How the hell do you get "we should lynch you instead of scum" there?

Exactly.

[Persivul]

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.
5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

[Persivul]

This situation - a D1 counterclaim - is what you dream of as town. Then when you finally get it, people insist on screwing it up.