Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Not Known 15]

Time to look back on springlullaby and Farkran:
Springlullaby:

^ Dumb.

We are settling the quest thing now.
We do it, I'm the leader.
Profit.

Trying to push through things like this is never going to be frictionless. Why should town do it that way? It increases conflicts meaninglessly...

Pine, why are you voting me? I found two scums already.

Would town really act like this? Have you ever seen an argument like this coming from town - that you found two supposed scum when it`s early on day 1 and they don`t have said they agreed with you???

HURT: Springlullaby
Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.

Also WHY ARE YOU STILL VOTING NEIGHBORIZER???!!!
Why scum WHYYYYY?

If they think that hectic is scum ... why are they acting like this?

^Day 1 is a no brainer for quest, it is totally protown:
- Low XP pool
- Low accuracy for sabotage

Risk/Reward is win for town.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU VOTE ME THE MOST AWESOME LEADER ON EARTH

Exaggerated BS yelling.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

Actually you are right. I misread.

FAKECLAIM!

If you are so focused on getting xp for your role you don`t misread.

<subliminal interlude>

FARK IS SCUM

</subliminal interlude>

^

Translate: I lie and am ad hominem and make bullshit cases but want immunity on flip because spring is gonna flip blue.

<chorus>

Farkscum bell, Farkscum bell
Farkscum all the way
Oh! what scum it is to ride
In a scummity scum open sleigh,
Hey!

</end chorus>

And then it begins. I will not quote the rest but there is much bullshit spam from this point naming farkran "farkscum" without really going much into specifics. But there is absolutely no scumhunt attempt behind it. It looks like they actually want to make this a 1v1 but for which ends? Let`s go to Farkran now...


Farkran:


The reason I switched to there are Ame`s posts:

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Nope. It's literally what you said:

1) distance themselves by

having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby

2) those who are

siding against her

(and the majority) are

pushing a very easy lhf

3) those who are

siding with her

will be

pocketing her

hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think

we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

The difference between post 553 and 656 is extreme

and points to scum forgetting their precise motivations.

Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince

him

in the first place (291 + 384).

Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):

I think it's more likely to flip red though.

(1)

My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,

(2)

a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,

(3)

and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

1

This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.

2

This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.

3

As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.

So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.

So, what does this all mean?
This post will clear it all up:

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

This doesn`t sound hostile at all. Spring almost instantly retracted the claim "in 1 xp" even if the rules wouldn`t forbid it(1 xp from the beginning->you need 1 more xp...), though; extremely out of character for what spring is trying to emulate(would they really re-check based on that flimsy claim without any added reasoning, "that they don`t believe it"?
But if Farkran

told them to retract that in their scumchat

...
That`s right. No one of them has to hold back because there WILL be a scum flip at the end. This is staged.

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

[Raya36]

Although a roleblock on momo would give less info since he hasn't posted much so I'd be more likely to go for farkset

[Raya36]

I think NK15 is town. That's a bold move for scum to make in my opinion

[Ame]

Hm. I could see SvS.


Oh yeah Raya, the links are automatically removed if you do the highlight-quote method (highlight the text you want to quote from a post before pressing the quote button and it will only quote that bit), so I don't think momo removed the link intentionally.

Also what do you think of this:

would like to give momo the Night to prove to us he is town as he suggested being able to do.

momo said he will be able to prove he town during the quest. Don't you think we should allow him to do so?

I would say in totally real food I participated a lot more. I think I was within top 3 posters? I asked more questions and was actively scumhunting more. I think the reason for that was I had a read on the other top posters whereas here I do not which is making it very overwhelming for me.

Shouldn't scumhunting

help

you get a read on the top posters? In TRF you were questioning Furret immediately. Your read on them only came from that questioning. Why haven't you been inquiring in the same way here? For example, you thought I was scummy early in the day. Why didn't you question me at all to try and further your read?

[Flight of the Conchords]

Although a roleblock on momo would give less info since he hasn't posted much so I'd be more likely to go for farkset

I do scumread momo, at first I thought he was busy or something but its become clear he's neglecting this game whilst being active elsewhere. Do not see town in what he

has

posted either.
I am expecting the day to probably end with a deadline no capture, but I think that's the correct mechanical use anyway, so i'm fine with that.

Don't know if I see SvS, but i'm on board with 50% of it and I like the detailing of thoughts from NK15.

- Bret

[Flight of the Conchords]

momo said he will be able to prove he town during the quest. Don't you think we should allow him to do so?

I forgot about this. Of course, we should see what he has to offer there. I will note at this point that I am very unimpressed by claims of 'confirmable town' that turn out not be an actual confirming of alignment.

- Bret

[Pink Ball]

I'm not a wallpost fan so I'm not really contributing a lot but I'm glad you guys are having fun!

[Ame]

I'm not a wallpost fan so I'm not really contributing a lot but I'm glad you guys are having fun!

Ok but can you answer my questions?

[Ame]

Reposting for your convenience:

Yes, I did my homework. Hectic being serious instead of jokey joke is NAI. Being intimidated and awkward, instead, are scumtraits from him.

Would you mind providing examples? Particularly of him being serious as town and of what you mean by awkward.

Also Pink, how do these impact your view:

Spoiler:

@clidd @dsj sheep me for win let's goooooo

God if you're town here

You know what, let's give this a spin. VOTE: Ame

You've felt opportunistic today, Ame. I think you were hoping some of us would latch onto your Doro scumread with how you were pushing it earlier, but now choose to evaporate it into thin air when no one does.

Wait a second I just noticed a contradiction:

You had literally not included me on any of your scum reads and the one time you said that it was me I changed your mind because you thought one of my comments was funny. You are the one being inconsistent.

dsj if you knew I was scumreading you before

why did you think neighbors were confirmed town to each other

? Surely you would have picked up that it wasn't the case from the way I was treating you?

Lul, I respect how cocky you are if you're scum. Unsure if I should be townreading or scumreading how you keep shifting attention/focus.

Coukd you explain why AaronFF was your third strongest scumread start of day and now seems to be your strongest townread?

[springlullaby]

If I'm scum with Farkscum, why did NK15 switch his vote?

> If they think Farkscum is scum, how is my reasoning bullshit spam?
---> I would accept this as valid only if the reason I presented were disqualified, but they are not. The only thing NK is doing is present empty allegation that I'm bullshit spamming which I was not.

> My caps are generally humorous exagerration, especially earlier game.
---> Please verify whether "Vote for me the most awesome leader on earth" being qualified as "exaggerated bs yelling" constitutes a valid argument.

[springlullaby]

I mean he literally quoted me saying:

"We are settling the quest thing now.
We do it, I'm the leader.

Profit.

"

As some sort of proof that I was expecting this to be frictionless.

[Raya36]

Hm. I could see SvS.


Oh yeah Raya, the links are automatically removed if you do the highlight-quote method (highlight the text you want to quote from a post before pressing the quote button and it will only quote that bit), so I don't think momo removed the link intentionally.

Also what do you think of this:

would like to give momo the Night to prove to us he is town as he suggested being able to do.

momo said he will be able to prove he town during the quest. Don't you think we should allow him to do so?

I would say in totally real food I participated a lot more. I think I was within top 3 posters? I asked more questions and was actively scumhunting more. I think the reason for that was I had a read on the other top posters whereas here I do not which is making it very overwhelming for me.

Shouldn't scumhunting

help

you get a read on the top posters? In TRF you were questioning Furret immediately. Your read on them only came from that questioning. Why haven't you been inquiring in the same way here? For example, you thought I was scummy early in the day. Why didn't you question me at all to try and further your read?

Oh, I've never used that method so I didn't realize. I won't count that towards my read on him anymore then.

There's no rush to block or lynch momo yet so I'm happy to give him a chance. Plus I don't want to kill town before they get a chance to prove themselves if that's the case.

I honestly don't have a good game related answer for you for that. Maybe my motivation went down this game. I was also very busy in real life at the start of this game which gave me a bad start and I've been very tired from that lately. Now that I didn't have a good start on farkset I've been very overwhelmed with how many posts they have and how long they are.

[springlullaby]

Please refer to the bolded in green from my past post.
NK characterizes me very strongly.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp c)using the bonus xp?

The sabotage may be targeted at the quest leader. It will not prevent any of those things.

Thanks.

Quest Protocol

Synopsis:

After mod clarification, I put forward the following protocol to be followed in order to maneuver the quest mechanic.

Objective:

I. Maximize town's chance of getting a special item every night and using it.
II. Minimize mafia's impact in that process.
III. Use the quest mechanism as an investigative device.

Steps:

1. Everyday, all alive player shall pledge participation to the quest in thread.
> All town players must participate to the quest because it minimizes mafia's impact on leader choice, and diminishes chances of successful sabotage.

2. Everyday, a leader is choosen by town in the day thread.
> Streamline process and avoid messy night discussion during shorter deadline.
> The first leader shall be me, by virtue of me coming up with the idea

and being generally super awesome

.
> At night, the leader shall be privilege target of town PR's protection, at town PR's discretion.

3. Every night, the quest leader shall choose at his own discretion, a person to grant the special item upon.
> This choice is not made public beforehand because of the sabotage mechanic.
> The choice is made public the day after, as a soft investigative device via accountability.

If no objection is put forward

, we shall proceed.

Please confirm that you have pm'd the mod for quest participation in thread.

QUEST LIST DAY 1

Confirmed:

springlullaby

Waiting (lame or scum):

mastina
Pink Ball
Raya36
Pine
Ginngie
Lady Chloe
momo
Flight of the Conchords (secret hydra)
Not Known 15
Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Hectic
Ame

Leader:

springlullaby

There are also multiple instances of me exchanging with others in this thread and discussing the plan, actively asking for input. I will let you verify by yourself.

The mischaracterization is egregious.

[springlullaby]

Please refer to the bolded in green from my past post.
NK characterizes me very strongly.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp c)using the bonus xp?

The sabotage may be targeted at the quest leader. It will not prevent any of those things.

Thanks.

Quest Protocol

Synopsis:

After mod clarification, I put forward the following protocol to be followed in order to maneuver the quest mechanic.

Objective:

I. Maximize town's chance of getting a special item every night and using it.
II. Minimize mafia's impact in that process.
III. Use the quest mechanism as an investigative device.

Steps:

1. Everyday, all alive player shall pledge participation to the quest in thread.
> All town players must participate to the quest because it minimizes mafia's impact on leader choice, and diminishes chances of successful sabotage.

2. Everyday, a leader is choosen by town in the day thread.
> Streamline process and avoid messy night discussion during shorter deadline.
> The first leader shall be me, by virtue of me coming up with the idea

and being generally super awesome

.
> At night, the leader shall be privilege target of town PR's protection, at town PR's discretion.

3. Every night, the quest leader shall choose at his own discretion, a person to grant the special item upon.
> This choice is not made public beforehand because of the sabotage mechanic.
> The choice is made public the day after, as a soft investigative device via accountability.

If no objection is put forward

, we shall proceed.

Please confirm that you have pm'd the mod for quest participation in thread.

QUEST LIST DAY 1

Confirmed:

springlullaby

Waiting (lame or scum):

mastina
Pink Ball
Raya36
Pine
Ginngie
Lady Chloe
momo
Flight of the Conchords (secret hydra)
Not Known 15
Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Hectic
Ame

Leader:

springlullaby

There are also multiple instances of me exchanging with others in this thread and discussing the plan, actively asking for input. I will let you verify by yourself.

The mischaracterization is egregious.

[Pink Ball]

Reposting for your convenience:

Yes, I did my homework. Hectic being serious instead of jokey joke is NAI. Being intimidated and awkward, instead, are scumtraits from him.

Would you mind providing examples? Particularly of him being serious as town and of what you mean by awkward.

Also Pink, how do these impact your view:

Spoiler:

@clidd @dsj sheep me for win let's goooooo

God if you're town here

You know what, let's give this a spin. VOTE: Ame

You've felt opportunistic today, Ame. I think you were hoping some of us would latch onto your Doro scumread with how you were pushing it earlier, but now choose to evaporate it into thin air when no one does.

Wait a second I just noticed a contradiction:

You had literally not included me on any of your scum reads and the one time you said that it was me I changed your mind because you thought one of my comments was funny. You are the one being inconsistent.

dsj if you knew I was scumreading you before

why did you think neighbors were confirmed town to each other

? Surely you would have picked up that it wasn't the case from the way I was treating you?

Lul, I respect how cocky you are if you're scum. Unsure if I should be townreading or scumreading how you keep shifting attention/focus.

Coukd you explain why AaronFF was your third strongest scumread start of day and now seems to be your strongest townread?

I didn't answer on purpose.

Why would my read change with respect to those posts?

[Professor Moriarty]

Prodding momo.

[momo]

Apologies for not posting sooner. I ask that you not roleblock me. As people are beginning to doubt my claim that I can prove myself town in quest, I will explain. I'm an adventure who is basically a quest leader double voter. This isn't the kind of role given to scum, which once I use it, proves me town. To prove myself town, there's a simple plan.

One person will be lynched at the end of this day and the remaining 12 will go to the quest. We decide who the leader should be, but then vote for 3 different people, putting 4 votes on each. Whoever I'm voting for (and it will be the person we decide should be the leader) will become the leader.

I'm willing to vote anyone but spring and flight for leader within the quest as I scum read them both.

Thoughts?

[Not Known 15]

Please refer to the bolded in green from my past post.
NK characterizes me very strongly.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp c)using the bonus xp?

The sabotage may be targeted at the quest leader. It will not prevent any of those things.

Thanks.

Quest Protocol

Synopsis:

After mod clarification, I put forward the following protocol to be followed in order to maneuver the quest mechanic.

Objective:

I. Maximize town's chance of getting a special item every night and using it.
II. Minimize mafia's impact in that process.
III. Use the quest mechanism as an investigative device.

Steps:

1. Everyday, all alive player shall pledge participation to the quest in thread.
> All town players must participate to the quest because it minimizes mafia's impact on leader choice, and diminishes chances of successful sabotage.

2. Everyday, a leader is choosen by town in the day thread.
> Streamline process and avoid messy night discussion during shorter deadline.
> The first leader shall be me, by virtue of me coming up with the idea

and being generally super awesome

.
> At night, the leader shall be privilege target of town PR's protection, at town PR's discretion.

3. Every night, the quest leader shall choose at his own discretion, a person to grant the special item upon.
> This choice is not made public beforehand because of the sabotage mechanic.
> The choice is made public the day after, as a soft investigative device via accountability.

If no objection is put forward

, we shall proceed.

Please confirm that you have pm'd the mod for quest participation in thread.

QUEST LIST DAY 1

Confirmed:

springlullaby

Waiting (lame or scum):

mastina
Pink Ball
Raya36
Pine
Ginngie
Lady Chloe
momo
Flight of the Conchords (secret hydra)
Not Known 15
Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Hectic
Ame

Leader:

springlullaby

There are also multiple instances of me exchanging with others in this thread and discussing the plan, actively asking for input. I will let you verify by yourself.

The mischaracterization is egregious.

Mischaracterization... there is no mischaracterization. You claim you were expecting this not to go well? Really? THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT? To increase the noise? To let others drown the thread with NAI arguments?
You have never stopped pushing for yourself as leader for the N1 quest.
You have not pushed for quests forever because it doesn`t impact what you want, at least not greatly. Yet you still have not ceased to push yourself as leader for Night 1. Your claim was BS - you need more xp, according to yourself.

Enough. This is more evidence that they are scum.

Now, if you look at what`s green... you will see the obvious bullshit they are trying. They are trying to look like something but overexaggerate it too much. What sane town would characterize naming themselves awesome as a reason for something.... cooperative...

[Farkset]

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

Oh-oh-oh, things just got interesting

Which is exactly why you moved your vote from SCUM to SCUM, right?

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Although a roleblock on momo would give less info since he hasn't posted much so I'd be more likely to go for farkset

I do scumread momo, at first I thought he was busy or something but its become clear he's neglecting this game whilst being active elsewhere. Do not see town in what he

has

posted either.
I am expecting the day to probably end with a deadline no capture, but I think that's the correct mechanical use anyway, so i'm fine with that.

Don't know if I see SvS, but i'm on board with 50% of it and I like the detailing of thoughts from NK15.

- Bret

Also this post is TERRIBLE to make as a followup to NK15 post. Your slot has been whiteknighting springlullaby ever since game start and you're now using "the detailing of thoughts" as a reason to push your scumread, but at the same time you deny NK15's

other

scumread that he switched away from?

-Farkran

[springlullaby]

Mischaracterization... there is no mischaracterization. You claim you were expecting this not to go well? Really? THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT? To increase the noise? To let others drown the thread with NAI arguments?
You have never stopped pushing for yourself as leader for the N1 quest.
You have not pushed for quests forever because it doesn`t impact what you want, at least not greatly. Yet you still have not ceased to push yourself as leader for Night 1. Your claim was BS - you need more xp, according to yourself.

Enough. This is more evidence that they are scum.

Now, if you look at what`s green... you will see the obvious bullshit they are trying. They are trying to look like something but overexaggerate it too much. What sane town would characterize naming themselves awesome as a reason for something.... cooperative...

> I did not claim that I was expecting this not to go well. I did it because I did it, but resistance did not surprise me. Can you understand the difference?

What you are saying is really weird.
Do you not understand the concept of humor?

[springlullaby]

Momo said something scummy btw. But I'll let you have at it.

[Not Known 15]

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

Simple... because of what Ame found you looked - and look - very scummy. And because I initially thought that probably only one of you was scum, the impression that you probably wanted to give. To resolve that, I took my time to re-read what you both said and found out that it is very likely that you two are scum.

[Ame]

I didn't answer on purpose.

Why would my read change with respect to those posts?

You can't link me the game or post that you used to determine that scum Hectic reacts awkwardly and the town Hectic also plays non-jokey?

[Ame]

And I'm asking if that game I quoted changes your opinion because it's a scum Hectic reaction that I think conflicts with your claim.